Stubborn coarse gray roots!

[Leila1712]

Hello! I am in need of advice as I feel I have tried almost everything.. I have a client thats columbian so her hair is very very coarse and she is 70% white on the top of her head and the rest is like 40% white and like 10% or barely on the sides. Her natural color is a base 4 comparable to a 4/0 wella. So i would like her to come out as a 6/73 even everywhere.. Her whites on top always come out with a super gold tone to it... And it seems very very hard to take.. Obviously her sides go darker so I adjusted the color on the sides... Any input/advice on how to handle it? Thx you guys rock!!

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[kaye74]

On the really stubborn white hair on top , try using 6% liquid on its own , dry it into the hair. This will open the cuticle , you can then either use 30mls of 66/0 with 2 cms of 0/45 and 2 cms of 0/65 and 2 cms of 0/33 with 6% on very white hair . On the rest of roots 2 parts 6/73 and 1 part 6/0 with 6% and use CT on the ends , or wait til last 5/10 mins and spray hair with water and use the remaining colour from bowl to emulsify on midlengths and ends . HTH xx

 

[4ndi]

What shampoo etc is she using at home?

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[Leila1712]

She comes every week and only washes her hair with me... I use wella shsmpoo n condition line

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[Leila1712]

On the really stubborn white hair on top , try using 6% liquid on its own , dry it into the hair. This will open the cuticle , you can then either use 30mls of 66/0 with 2 cms of 0/45 and 2 cms of 0/65 and 2 cms of 0/33 with 6% on very white hair . On the rest of roots 2 parts 6/73 and 1 part 6/0 with 6% and use CT on the ends , or wait til last 5/10 mins and spray hair with water and use the remaining colour from bowl to emulsify on midlengths and ends . HTH xx

Why the 4 mix for the roots? I will try the 6% trick.. But i think u r asking me to "create" the 6/73 for her roots using the mixes.. Can i ask why?
Thx so much for the replies

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[Thiago]

I had a client like this I tried to pre soft with peroxide but didn't work then I did like my teacher said I applied the tint on its own just the roots area left for a bit dried it and then re applied the tint mixed with peroxide and 100% covered xD h

 

[Piercednige]

I had a client like this I tried to pre soft with peroxide but didn't work then I did like my teacher said I applied the tint on its own just the roots area left for a bit dried it and then re applied the tint mixed with peroxide and 100% covered xD h

Wat type of peroxide did u se to pre soften? Ur not really meant to do it with cream peroxides. It tends to go quite sticky when tryin to dry it in. I found I get better result when I use to use liquid peroxide. I've not pre softened for years now :-D

 

[kaye74]

Why the 4 mix for the roots? I will try the 6% trick.. But i think u r asking me to "create" the 6/73 for her roots using the mixes.. Can i ask why?
Thx so much for the replies

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Because you will get better coverage on white stubborn, only use this on stubborn hair though, you can only mix mixtones with double bases , hope this helps ;-) xx

 

[Thiago]

Wat type of peroxide did u se to pre soften? Ur not really meant to do it with cream peroxides. It tends to go quite sticky when tryin to dry it in. I found I get better result when I use to use liquid peroxide. I've not pre softened for years now :-D

I did with normal
Wella peroxide so I should use liquid one then never knew this... But I got taught at college that tint on its own also open the cuticle ))

 

[Prettyflamingo]

Also another wella tip if grey is stubborn, increase development time by 5-10 mins , if this doesn't help for every 30 mls tint use 10ml less recommended developer ie 30ml tint 20 ml developer , 60 ml tint 40ml developer .

 

[NiCshairstudio]

Grey hair is always course and difficult compared to regular as they on average have 10-11 cuticle layers as apposed to regular which is 5-7 layers on average, then once the colour is inside it needs to have bigger colour molecules to actually show a full tone rather than a wishy washy one.. So my advice would be to pre soften the hair and then use a colour that is specifically designed for grey coverage, correct mixes etc and I think you will be fine xx

 

[Piercednige]

Also another wella tip if grey is stubborn, increase development time by 5-10 mins , if this doesn't help for every 30 mls tint use 10ml less recommended developer ie 30ml tint 20 ml developer , 60 ml tint 40ml developer .

You should still keep the mixture to what the manufactures recommend and this is the perfect ratio to give 100% effectiveness to the product

 

[NiCshairstudio]

You should still keep the mixture to what the manufactures recommend and this is the perfect ratio to give 100% effectiveness to the product

Of using normal tint on grey hair the higher % in tint to peroxide covers much better as manufacturer instructions are for normal hair, grey hair needs bigger or more colour molacules to give better coverage

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[Piercednige]

Of using normal tint on grey hair the higher % in tint to peroxide covers much better as manufacturer instructions are for normal hair, grey hair needs bigger or more colour molacules to give better coverage

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The correct amount of peroxide in the colour helps the colour molecules develop to their full potential. Less peroxide can reduce the oxidation process as the less peroxide the less the peroxide will react. Whether grey hair or not it is still advised for he correct mixture.
For resistant grey hair it is advised to use the intense base colours to cover grey. With non resistant hair the normal base is fine.
Applying sufficient product will give 100% covered on grey hair. On resistant hat I will use 60ml of an intense Base and get 100% coverage

 

[NiCshairstudio]

The correct amount of peroxide in the colour helps the colour molecules develop to their full potential. Less peroxide can reduce the oxidation process as the less peroxide the less the peroxide will react. Whether grey hair or not it is still advised for he correct mixture.
For resistant grey hair it is advised to use the intense base colours to cover grey. With non resistant hair the normal base is fine.
Applying sufficient product will give 100% covered on grey hair. On resistant hat I will use 60ml of an intense Base and get 100% coverage

Im not saying you are wrong as technically you are correct, im simply pointing out that the practice mentioned is also recommended, by most manufacturers, on a recent course i did with joico they advise this method if we accidentilly run out of theyre age defy or the colour we are looking for needs tweaking etc.

Hense the recommendation on colours produced for none grey hairs i would not recommend this method with colours for grey hair as it simply wont work, however there is a thread somewhere which someone exokained in great detail, in technical, mathematical and in lamans terms as to how this method works.

Ive personally never needed to pre soften or even try this method, however i have been advised through multiple courses that this is an option with stubborn grey hair

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[Piercednige]

I use wella and they would advise not to do this. I understand with other colour houses being different as their colours are obviously different

 

[Prettyflamingo]

I use wella and they would advise not to do this. I understand with other colour houses being different as their colours are obviously different

On the last colour course I attended which was a private tuition session with a senior colour educator for wella , this was specific advice used for covering grey , apparently this is a preferable option that should be used BEFORE attempting to pre-soften , not my words , straight from the mouths of the pros !!!

 

[Piercednige]

On the last colour course I attended which was a private tuition session with a senior colour educator for wella , this was specific advice used for covering grey , apparently this is a preferable option that should be used BEFORE attempting to pre-soften , not my words , straight from the mouths of the pros !!!

Beer said that to us. Odd.
I kno they said with the double intense shades there is no need to pre soften. So I never had a problem it not covering

 

[Woodywoodside]

I have just completed Keune educational training and they say that the old method of pre softening with peroxide actially makes the hair more resistant, they recommend shifting.

 

[Thiago]

I have just completed Keune educational training and they say that the old method of pre softening with peroxide actially makes the hair more resistant, they recommend shifting.

What does shifting mean?

My teacher said the best way to pre soft is with tint. Coz tint open the cuticle and peroxide the ph is low so it kind closes