Sweet Squared and Tibby Oliver allowing non professionals on the courses!

[skingeek78]

But when you pass a one day course you are 'qualified' in whatever it is so to speak, that's why you can gain insurance.

I don't really want to get into this - but if it's such a problem then someone needs to take this to The Guild or Babtac as they accredit the one day courses. They obviously feel that people are qualified after one day courses, so maybe someone can ask them why?

And yes, that's how I got to where I am and no, I am not ashamed. Day courses are not cheap and kit isnt cheap either, so there's no easy money to be had. X

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I don't think it makes you qualified especially as a beauty therapist, skin specialist, beautician, aesthetician etc....I think it makes you trained in a subject, enough to gain insurance.

My point being there should be a distinction, then let the customer decide

Just to reiterate, it very much depends on the training there are some excellent people who truly excel in their chosen field because of natural skill and good training but all I am saying is why not get that basic level, then specialise? Do some people think it is either beneath them to do a basic recognised or that they don't want to waste the time before specialising?


Why do companies do this - money
Why do insurance companies (including those you have mentioned) cover regardless - money

 

[skingeek78]

The word "specialist" is defined as "a person who concentrates primarily on a particular subject or activity."

If someone wants to learn Skincare and puts themselves through a series of intense short courses (such as the Nouveau training I just completed with my mum) then why shouldn't they be able to call themselves a specialist? They are specialising in Skincare, rather than all sorts of beauty treatments.

Good quality courses and materials don't come cheap. Well known companies that come highly recommended don't just get that status from taking people's money and giving them shoddy training. The Nouveau course we attended was SO in depth. It was all about the science of the treatment and how to do it safely and effectively. We studied anatomy and physiology before attending too.

Are we then not suitably qualified to perform the treatment? Hmmmm... I'm leaving now before this gets catty

Xxx

Hmmmm
I know I am wasting my words here so I won't bother, it's been said before. I guess in this position I would feel the need to justify myself also.
But I am sorry, I am sure it was a great course but I simply cannot agree that this level of training in a few days compares to studying on the level required for anyone to justifiably call themselves a skin specialist. :-(

 

[jowilliams2410]

The problem is the general public can buy the Faith Mask on the Tibby Olivier website, so how can the faith range be classed as professional.

I just think the Mask should be professional only, I know other brands sell in stores but like someone on here has pointed out some products should remain professional only, otherwise clients will just do the treatments themselves.

 

[MissOwen]

I think what seems to be missed here is that most people do the majority of their learning while doing the job.

Hairdressing has been mentioned a lot here and i know of no decent hairdresser who has walked out of college after 3 yrs and been good at what they do, they have become a decent hair dresser through gaining experience in their work placements and in every salon they then go on to work in and by continuing their training.

Nurses, bricklayers, mechanics, whatever you train to do, a course will give you knowledge and skills and it is experience that improves you.

Remeber learning to drive? The instructor teaches you to pass your test, you learn to drive once you go out there on your own.

As much as a 3 yr course will give you a much better understanding of the treatments, you are taking in all that info over a long period of time. How much do you genuinely remember at the end of it?

I think a dedication to being brilliant at what you do is the biggest thing you need in any job. Most of us have found this forum trying to further our learning and skills. This forum is not just full of those that have done short courses. It has equally many people who have finished or are completing college courses.

 

[essentia]

Two days quality training is fine as long as you have the underpinning knowledge of a trained beauty therapist. As someone rightly said 2 days does not even cover health and safety! Two days will sell more courses to those with no professional background and sadly the products will become readily available and eventually drive down prices for treatments. The less barrier to entry the less exclusive. Sad but true.

 

[tonicj]

There is no "one answer fits all" to this debate, only two different perspectives and each thinking they are right. Maybe we should all just agree to disagree and move on.

 

[MrsHBeauty]

I don't think the length of time to train really makes that much difference.

The quality of the training and the persons natural ability to take on info such as a and p, contraindications etc

If someone has a hard time remembering something they've been told maybe the repetitiveness of a college course is more suited.

Then there's people who actively seek to know as much as they can about their subject who may be more suited to short courses.

I'm a beauty therapist and have only done day courses. Fantastic day courses at that. I constantly keep myself updated and an always upto learn more.

I have employees someone straight out of college and after 3 months she is finally getting upto salon standard. I feel she learns well and takes everything on board but its hard changing habits learnt over the last 2 years at college.

I don't think there is a one size fits all when it comes down to acceptable treatment standards after training.

At the end of the day TO have decided that they're courses are adequate enough to be able to offer their treatment effectively and along with S2 are happy to sell their products to adequately trained people.

This subject is soo over done.

NVQ vs short courses.

No-one will ever change their opinion on this subject. It's just a matter to agree to disagree.

What's annoying most about it, is people taking replies personally. We don't know the standards of anyone's treatments, business skills. We may be able to talk the talk but can we actually walk the walk? some people are here solely to disrupt the peace and get people's back up.

No doubt people will start being nasty and the mods will have no choice to close the thread. Only for another one to pop up in a few weeks.

I don't think I've ever commented on a thread like this before.


Jemima

 

[skingeek78]

I agree that the subject is over done, I have noticed several threads turn to this and it's sad. It shouldn't be that any of us take it personally but of course it is very difficult to not too, from both sides!

At the end of the day, right or wrong I feel it does depend very much on the type of course and what treatments people want to offer, more advanced treatments surely should be treated with a little more respect? Such as laser, electrolysis, micropigmentation, needling, electro therapies etc etc.. I also feel the standard of most recognised courses should be much higher, I know that not everyone has the same approach to things as me, I like to go down a certain route with everything I do, but I know that after completing a level 2 or even 3 recognised it would not be at all acceptable to decide to call myself a nail specialist, wax specialist etc etc I would then go on to specialist training with someone such as CND, can no one see the irony in this?there are not only NVQs available, there are other recognised routes.
I do try to see both sides but still feel a basic standard should be introduced, this would mean all would have to reach at least that, then do whatever they liked!

At the end of the day as things stand everyone has to do what they are happy with legally and ethically, we all have to make a living...But it would perhaps be more honest how people describe themselves to sell their services? Until the system changes the only ones to benefit are certain companies and insurance companies, certainly not the clients or those carrying out treatments long term.

Agreeing to disagree! wishing everyone a good day and my best wishes, Victoria x

 

[laurakate]

Rightly or wrongly, I'm feeling quite impressed with myself that I'm not that bothered about what other people are or are not doing.

I say this because I'm mostly concerned with my own progress. I have nvqs in beauty and nails and I ensure to do a strong to moderate amount of product training on a year to year basis.

My main concern with training was when colleagues used to get more product training opportunities than me in a way that felt specifically and personally unfair but I'm less bothered by that now because I'm aiming for self employment in the not too distant future. Thus removing myself from a situation where I become subject to comparing myself to other people

My point being that having goals to stay at your best whilst ignoring what others are doing (slight paradox as that is) is probably the way forward

 

[Decadence]

Normally I would not comment on this sort of thing, I have just contacted s2 about details for the product and they could give me no details at all, so I Had to get some details from Tibby Olivier and in the Question and answers that they emailed was this.

How much should I charge clients ?
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]We recommend £50-80 with lymphatic drainage massage. Courses can also be offered with discounts. The treatment must NOT be offered at less than £40, including in a course
[/FONT][/FONT]
So Tibby Olivier are recommending that it be sold with a lymphatic drainage massage, so this must mean that the training will include a massage course as well, so going on from this the two day course would also include body wraps and full Level 3 A & P " Bones, veins, arteries, muscles etc ".

Now everyone should be able to see that this cannot be taught in two days, and if massage is not being taught, then by Tibby Oliviers own recommendations, the treatment is not being offered as it should be.

I only hope that there is some rulings that come into force soon in the beauty industry.

 

[beautybemine15]

What is all this par-lava about. I did a short 6 month course in gel nails at college and got a Nvq level 2. I did a make-up course for 6 months at college and got a Nvq level 2. I did Manicure and pedicure course for 6 months at college and got a Nvq level 2. These were part time courses and i was working whilst doing these courses getting grief of my boss but i didn't a give damn! I was fired twice from two jobs because of jealously in me wanting to achieve. I then went on to short conversion courses with crystal nails last year. I also still have plenty of options to further my beauty training once i have settled and run my Nails business. I did not need to stay for three years on the trot . But then again i would not cut in throat it by just doing short courses
If your really'' passionate'' about beauty will go to college and get a good full understanding of the industry be it a part time course or a full time. No excuses

 

[jillybob]

I've just read a thread which is becoming more and more common where 'professional' salons are not using full systems for treatments and obviously just 'winging it' as they have not done specific product training.there are more and more people on here asking about non professional products yet claim to be professional..so who is the pro, the one that did 3 years of college work and no more or the one who has did a short course on specific products and knowing how to carry out a treatment as per the manufacturers instructions?

 

[jillybob]

and a ps...to all those professionals who went to collage....no you didnt you probably went to college...a collage is a collection of images that make up a picture

 

[Biljana]

That was a long read!! phew Anyhoo, I can see both sides of the perspective. When I first started out I was bothered because I trained full time Mon thru Sat for 2 grueling years and at the end my educators told us that our education is never done, hmmm Yep, I started my first job and there was a line up of short 2-3 day courses for me to learn the spa's products/techniques, each brand has slightly different approach. Each time I was enrolled by my boss, the classes would have ladies enrolled without prior knowledge of skin/nails/anatomy/hair etc... and each time it was a bit of a piss off that the educator was forced to go into basic knowledge so that these girls could understand and keep up. So, I hope that you can understand why those of us that spent time studying feel the way we might?
What really got to me however, was the boss figuring out that he will send me and then I will in turn train the new girls he hired, this was a large spa, 22 'estheticians', high overturn, and sometimes I would train the girls that have it, but most often not. The straw that broke the camel's back came when he told me I would start training his fiancee (no education past highschool) to perform treatments. At that point I REFUSED and gave him my notice. Why, why should I train people without the necessary knowledge and hit my head against the wall because they don't know the basics to begin with? I graduated in 2006, and with further short 2-3 day courses I am STILL paying off my student loans.
Weeks ago, a friend was bothering me to train her how to apply gel nails. Gave her all the necessary info on training, and we did the research together as she wants to work for me once she completes. I have NO problem with her doing a gel course training only, however, if s

 

[Biljana]

my iPad sucks
If she insists working for me, she WILL have to study nail anatomy, proper sanitation, client relationships among other things that make my place professional. All the things that this 2 day gel nail course does not cover! Right down to the way she needs to dress for work, how to wear her hair, and how to talk to clients..etc.. Basics...

 

[skingeek78]

I've just read a thread which is becoming more and more common where 'professional' salons are not using full systems for treatments and obviously just 'winging it' as they have not done specific product training.there are more and more people on here asking about non professional products yet claim to be professional..so who is the pro, the one that did 3 years of college work and no more or the one who has did a short course on specific products and knowing how to carry out a treatment as per the manufacturers instructions?

Hmm I would say how about doing both? That's what all the qualified therapists do that I know anyway! Those who use a system without having appropriate training in it are not any more right than those who think a 2 day course without qualifying makes them right either. Training in our profession is ongoing x

 

[virtues2011]

and a ps...to all those professionals who went to collage....no you didnt you probably went to college...a collage is a collection of images that make up a picture

Ha ha made me chuckle!

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[WaxGirl]

I don't think that's right! I trained at collage for 3 years and then went into a salon as a junior and built my skills up! I don't think it's right that after a 2 day training course you are then "a professional"

You've got a good point there

The knowledge and skills and experience you build over the years cannot and will never be gained in 2 days

I don't think this is something to worry you as a customer will see immediately the difference

I'm not knocking the courses - each person has their reason for going about things differently and if they put in the work and practise then fair enough

but the reality is that many of these girls are doing a 2 day course then starting up immediately without putting in the practise and building their skill set

even after all these years I would never dream of going and learning a new treatment and the next day put it on the salon menu lol

I would take time to practise and build skill and improve

Really its a reflection of the industry and the lack of regulation

 

[Beautyandme]

This is a very interesting thread and there are pros & cons for all ways of learning.

For me though, nothing speaks more "than repeat business". If you've got that (or working towards that) you know that your offering a good service and no one can take that away from you.

So if the lady in questions is any good - 6 months from now she will still be doing it, and if not someone else will be ready to take her place.

 

[Decadence]

Have just had a interesting phone call with babtac according to them London you need a nvq qualification to be registered with the local councils, and they also said that Wales is bringing it in too. Personally I think it's a good idea.
Bring on some regulation, you've only got to see celebrity super spa to see the image we have !


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