Sweet Squared and Tibby Oliver allowing non professionals on the courses!

[Emily Case]

I have done a series of short courses, with the majority being intensive and well run. In fact, I came back from a Nouveau short course yesterday. I understand the science, the treatment itself, health and safety, contra-indications etc.

Do I believe myself to be less of a professional because I chose not to train for year learning treatments I don't want to offer? Absolutely not.

I attend a few courses a year to keep at the top of my game. My clients come to me because I am a SPECIALIST in nails - I can answer the questions they fire at me when it comes to science and product knowledge and I know my stuff.

I don't believe we should all be thrown into the same boat - I don't have an NVQ either. It's patronising.

If this girl wants to do training with TO or S2, good for her. She has done the right thing - would you be happier if she just bought off eBay, didn't train and started charging pennies? Would companies insure her if she wasn't adequately trained? I don't think so somehow.

Xxx

 

[skingeek78]

Just read the whole thread, phew!

One thing I've noticed with people who have done short courses over the years is that they BELIEVE themselves to be expert and well trained. I mean they paid £xxx for the course, and came away with a big folder of photocopies, so they must be expert-right?

My issue is that they don't know how much they don't know. Anyone who has trade tested a 6 month beauty fast track course person will know exactly what I'm on about. Anyone who regularly answers questions on here will get it too.

The course providers want to sell courses, that's how they make their money. They're not going to tell you that they're teaching the bare minimum to satisfy the half baked training authorities that 'accredit' them. They'll tell you that with 'passion' you can have a thriving business in a day, and that it's a secret that very few people are privy to.

Sorry to be the one to tell you, but Joe public are picky devils, and price is not always the criteria on how you will be judged.
I answered a thread on here yesterday by someone stumped by what was basic hairdressing. She was an 'extensionist', and stated that she knew all about hair from her one day course, and from her sister being a hairdresser, yet she didnt know anything about the life cycle of the hair, strange that.

100% agreed!!! I appreciate that there are some really great specialist training out there that genuinely improve standards of learning and provide equivalent learning in a given subject...but they are kind of in the minority. Level 2 beauty is basic, I would always suggest doing it though to get the basics then go and do a specialist course in say for example, waxing or a particular facial treatment

 

[skingeek78]

There are some posts on here that are really helpful and those who try to see the argument from both sides.

In the end as I said before there are many ways to obtain a recognised qualification, it doesn't have to be full time, you can fast track as someone else has mentioned, but you still will have covered the basics to then go on and develop. This really is a UK issue, the rest of Europe seems a lot stricter.

On the other hand worryingly there are those who believe it is ok for them to carry out in some cases in depth or invasive treatments that they have embarked upon a couple of days training for. This is what truly bothers me personally far more than any undercutting or the greed of the companies churning out certificates.

 

[Kim Lawless]

Just read the whole thread, phew!

One thing I've noticed with people who have done short courses over the years is that they BELIEVE themselves to be expert and well trained. I mean they paid £xxx for the course, and came away with a big folder of photocopies, so they must be expert-right?

My issue is that they don't know how much they don't know. Anyone who has trade tested a 6 month beauty fast track course person will know exactly what I'm on about. Anyone who regularly answers questions on here will get it too.

The course providers want to sell courses, that's how they make their money. They're not going to tell you that they're teaching the bare minimum to satisfy the half baked training authorities that 'accredit' them. They'll tell you that with 'passion' you can have a thriving business in a day, and that it's a secret that very few people are privy to.

Sorry to be the one to tell you, but Joe public are picky devils, and price is not always the criteria on how you will be judged.
I answered a thread on here yesterday by someone stumped by what was basic hairdressing. She was an 'extensionist', and stated that she knew all about hair from her one day course, and from her sister being a hairdresser, yet she didnt know anything about the life cycle of the hair, strange that.

I say this not to schmooze you but because I always feel your passion in your posts and I can only imagine that you are top at what you do. I have total respect for you and the way you run your business. :Love:

However, let's talk about hairdressing. If I'm correct, hairdressers generally do a couple of years at college. Yet I have never had never had a brilliant cut, colour or blow-dry and that includes being a model for the tutor! I've had two Brazilian Blow dry's that stopped working after a week.

A lot of hairdressers who did their college course have never attended another short course to keep up with trends.

As I always say, I think it's quality of training, not quantity for all aspects of training.

The mistake a lot of people make from a one day courses is that they don't re-read and study their theory/manual and they leave it too long between the course and actually applying their technique.

 

[mum]

I have spent years commenting on the quality of training and education. Usually the lack of it!

However, I have also commented that a short course of excellent quality is worth more that a longer course that just does not deliver. Short courses continue to thrive because the consumer demands them! (The consumers in this case being the newbie and the improver professional) Its the way of the world. There are good and bad in both and it's all down to QUALITY

Of all the short course providers I have a LOT of confidence in the quality of S2 education. More than most, they instill a mindset of ongoing learning and self,improvement. This is where the thread started and I KNOW the 2 days mentioned does not stop there!

Yes, it's a short course but one that the provider has invested a lot in the quality of that training. It isn't run by someone who qualified last year and set up in the back,room of a salon like so many other 'accredited' courses!

This is meeting demand and delivering quality. There is a difference!

 

[BannerPenguin]

I say this not to schmooze you but because I always feel your passion in your posts and I can only imagine that you are top at what you do. I have total respect for you and the way you run your business. :Love:

However, let's talk about hairdressing. If I'm correct, hairdressers generally do a couple of years at college. Yet I have never had never had a brilliant cut, colour or blow-dry and that includes being a model for the tutor! I've had two Brazilian Blow dry's that stopped working after a week.

A lot of hairdressers who did their college course have never attended another short course to keep up with trends.

As I always say, I think it's quality of training, not quantity for all aspects of training.

The mistake a lot of people make from a one day courses is that they don't re-read and study their theory/manual and they leave it too long between the course and actually applying their technique.

Regarding hairdressing I have an NVQ 2 in Hairdressing on an Apprenticeship were I worked in a shop 4 days out of the 5. I was younger then, when I first got out of secondary school. Now... Well I wouldn't dream of cutting someones hair.... apart from Dad's. He has a zero all over I can manage that. ha.

 

[jowilliams2410]

The problem is the general public can buy the Faith Mask on the Tibby Olivier website, so how can the faith range be classed as professional.

 

[Kim Lawless]

The problem is the general public can buy the Faith Mask on the Tibby Olivier website, so how can the faith range be classed as professional.

But doesn't Dermalogica sell on the high street too?

 

[Moosebat]

Faith Lift has always been available to the general public as are many products used within a professional service so not really sure of your point ? x

walk in Harvey Nichols and are all there, environ, dermalogica, espa, elemis etc

Faith is on the professional site at trade prices for the Professional and in the larger salon sizes.

 

[MamaG]

Hello from a Newbie!

I've been keeping up with this thread over the last couple of days. Very interesting!
I am a 37 year old Mum who has spent far too many years in an office doing accounts and now have the opportunity to re-train to start a new career when my twins go to school in a couple of years.
I'm SO passionate about nails and have been doing my own for ages and family / friends for the last year or so. I love it. I have enough life experience to know that when I return to work I want to spend my days doing something I enjoy.

My intention is not to undercut anyone or pinch clients. I endeavour to be really good at what I do and have planned to take a course / courses over the next 6 months, with a further 18 months of practice on willing volunteers in order to finely tune what I have learnt.

I think it is incredibly naive of anyone to think they can go from no experience, do a short course and simply 'get going'! I think that would do the client a dis-service as you should want every single person to be 100% happy with the work you have done.

In ANY business, there will be people trying to take short cuts and rip others off. Doesn't matter whether it's a nail technician, builder, plumber....

There will always be the new kid on the block but, I will simply focus on providing an excellent service and leave the rest to sort itself out!

Kat

 

[joe90]

Quite rightly S2 will not sell liquid and powder products to anyone without first seeing a certificate for the relevant qualification. So, I think as a minimum anyone wanting to train in FL should have a facial qualification first.

 

[tonicj]

Overall I feel a good background knowledge is important. Some may choose to get this by doing a longer course at the beginning of their career and some will get this as their career develops. Either way it's up to each one of us to provide as good a service as we can and be fair to ourselves and to our clients. There will always be the issue of cost for treatments but that happens all around us not just in this industry. We really shouldn't waste our energy worrying about what others are doing or not doing.

 

[sanilulu]

The problem is the general public can buy the Faith Mask on the Tibby Olivier website, so how can the faith range be classed as professional.

Hi

I'm sure faith lift / TO is the same but I'll give you an example of professional only:

Elemis is a professional range but 'some' items are available for sale in retail shops ... Cleansers toners moisturisers some masks exfoliators etc But When I say 'some' - it is not 'all products' they sell in shops - there are specialist professional items (ie like anti aging facial products used within the facial etc) ... that can only be purchased if you have an account with them ... after training and by opening having a professional account ... !!!

Xxx



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[skingeek78]

I have spent years commenting on the quality of training and education. Usually the lack of it!

However, I have also commented that a short course of excellent quality is worth more that a longer course that just does not deliver. Short courses continue to thrive because the consumer demands them! (The consumers in this case being the newbie and the improver professional) Its the way of the world. There are good and bad in both and it's all down to QUALITY

Of all the short course providers I have a LOT of confidence in the quality of S2 education. More than most, they instill a mindset of ongoing learning and self,improvement. This is where the thread started and I KNOW the 2 days mentioned does not stop there!

Yes, it's a short course but one that the provider has invested a lot in the quality of that training. It isn't run by someone who qualified last year and set up in the back,room of a salon like so many other 'accredited' courses!

This is meeting demand and delivering quality. There is a difference!

Excellent point made Mum. I agree, it is the quality of training, especially of the trainer that is vital. but i still feel to get a recognised qualification, we all know in the standards of these are not what they perhaps should be at times, it is basic but gives a basis to then expand upon, but with regards to the length of course, that is irrelevant, quality is key. For example I decided I wanted an ITEC, I had previous qualifications and Rpl'd some but for others wanted to try and gain optimum marks. I went to a school, it was truly laughable. I left after 4 classes! The poor girls that were new to beauty :-( it cost me more but I went to a private independant school and did it in half the time with a professional who took giving education seriously.

I am a firm believer in getting the qualification first though, then say wanted to specialise in waxing, I would definitely go to Kim, many colleagues have trained with her and her training is exceptional, for nails the basic training and even I have heard some NVQ further training is poor so I would obtain the minimum then go and specialise with one of the product houses/training providers. I specialised in facial treatments so that was the route I took.

It is completely true that it comes down to quality and there are good and bad. Good and bad therapists and definitely good and bad training.

 

[Lynne Baker]

Elemis is a professional range but 'some' items are available for sale in retail shops ... Cleansers toners moisturisers some masks exfoliators etc But When I say 'some' - it is not 'all products' they sell in shops - there are specialist professional items (ie like anti aging facial products used within the facial etc) ... that can only be purchased if you have an account with them ... after training and by opening having a professional account ... !!!

But that doesn't stop your client from showrooming, does it?
That's why Swissdermyl retail products (along with several other brands; I think Nimue is one) can't be bought online by the general public. That retail sale belongs to the therapist doing the treatment.

 

[skingeek78]

Another point that I would like to make and the reason I piped up in the first place, it comes down to the individual and importantly how they portray themselves and their services. It also depends upon the treatment.
For example I see an increasing amount of individuals with no formal qualification , relevant history etc...decide they will make themselves some money, go on a few days course, offer a treatment that is invasive and most importantly describe themselves as a skin specialist!!! Seriously this is what is wrong, it is misinformation, they give no information regarding the fact they are not qualified neither conveniently do they inform their potential clients that they achieved this skin specialist status by attending a few days course. Why not be honest? and write clearly on all website/information their exact history, what actually makes them feel entitled to use this title? then let the customer decide.

 

[misslady]

Another point that I would like to make and the reason I piped up in the first place, it comes down to the individual and importantly how they portray themselves and their services. It also depends upon the treatment.
For example I see an increasing amount of individuals with no formal qualification , relevant history etc...decide they will make themselves some money, go on a few days course, offer a treatment that is invasive and most importantly describe themselves as a skin specialist!!! Seriously this is what is wrong, it is misinformation, they give no information regarding the fact they are not qualified neither conveniently do they inform their potential clients that they achieved this skin specialist status by attending a few days course. Why not be honest? and write clearly on all website/information their exact history, what actually makes them feel entitled to use this title? then let the customer decide.

But when you pass a one day course you are 'qualified' in whatever it is so to speak, that's why you can gain insurance.

I don't really want to get into this - but if it's such a problem then someone needs to take this to The Guild or Babtac as they accredit the one day courses. They obviously feel that people are qualified after one day courses, so maybe someone can ask them why?

And yes, that's how I got to where I am and no, I am not ashamed. Day courses are not cheap and kit isnt cheap either, so there's no easy money to be had. X

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[tonicj]

I'm going to bring another point up here that will affect and maybe even irritate some of us.

Those of us that had longer training and got NVQ/ITEC/CIBTAC qualifications etc and then to update ourselves we go on shorter courses (1-2 days duration) eg intimate waxing, threading, HD Brows etc. Does this mean we too are not qualified enough when it comes to the shorter courses???

I suppose to some extent it's the background knowledge from the longer course we undertook in the first place that may help us out here and that's probably why I can see the debate from both perspectives. I feel :smack: coming on!!!!

 

[ProjectPretty]

Really, £875? How did you get that price - that's a saving over over £100? PM if you want. Xx


Seeing, capturing, creating & presenting beauty

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Hiya,

just saw this. I kid you not... the lady on the phone quoted me for a 2 Day course at the HD Brows headquarters with the founder of the HD Brow brand £875 smackers! I was pretty shocked myself. This covered:

- Health and Safety
- Anatomy and Physiology
- HD Brow branded kit
- Accredited certificate
- Registration on their website as an official HD Brow Artist

I've looked at other avenues such as Hi Brow and Capital Hair as Beauty courses as £875 was way out of my budget.





xProjectPrettyx

 

[Emily Case]

The word "specialist" is defined as "a person who concentrates primarily on a particular subject or activity."

If someone wants to learn Skincare and puts themselves through a series of intense short courses (such as the Nouveau training I just completed with my mum) then why shouldn't they be able to call themselves a specialist? They are specialising in Skincare, rather than all sorts of beauty treatments.

Good quality courses and materials don't come cheap. Well known companies that come highly recommended don't just get that status from taking people's money and giving them shoddy training. The Nouveau course we attended was SO in depth. It was all about the science of the treatment and how to do it safely and effectively. We studied anatomy and physiology before attending too.

Are we then not suitably qualified to perform the treatment? Hmmmm... I'm leaving now before this gets catty

Xxx