Vote for old Salon Geek with a heart

[lila22]

I done my NVQ2 over two years in 2005, i have also done a NSI gel course which was everyweek for 8 months and bio sculpture.
I passed all with good marks but due to a health issue i cant work so just do on friends and family at the moment, As i dont get out much i have looked to salon geek for help and advice on the way as if i worked in a salon guess i would get tips there, I only found this site after my courses and wished id found it before as maybe Shellac would have been better suited then Bio for me. After seeing what people like and use i can way up things.
I also like the chit chat as mostly girls who have a passion for beauty, hair ect like myself. I will also learn from this thread and always search before i post something, i guess sometimes ways change or new products come out so i just want most up to date info but will check from now on :oxx

 

[welshrarebit]

Hi,
Being mobile is also quite isolating. When training (if training with a good provider) you have someone there to ask questions to, find out about latest products etc. Yes you can always phone or mail your educator but what if you dont know the question? What if you dont realise you are doing something incorrectly or no so much incorrectly but that there is a better way to do something. By reading through the forums you get to pick up tips and advice about latest products etc.
Once you go out on your own unless you know, where does one go to for up to date information? Places like this are a god-send, especially if a tech lives in a more remote place, as there usually isnt another like-minded person near by to have a chat to.
I understand that for the more seasoned professionals on here to keep seeing the same topics appear time and time again is boring and tedious, but from my perspective, where I have been out of the industry for a couple of years, I need to get updated on products and techniques etc and I find it interesting reading through the current posts. I dont know but there might just be a gem of information in a post. I hover over the title of a post - it gives me the first couple of lines in that post, if I feel I have already read something similar I skip that post.
This site has also been around for so long that I would imagine most questions have been asked and yes the answer can probably be found if using the search facility, but what if someone doesnt know the question in the first place? By browsing through the currents posts, for me I have found out about some latest products etc and I havent needed to use the search facility much at all.
Where is the sense of community? Might as well just use an encyclopedia if we are always being directed to use the search facility. Its being part of a community of like-minded people and having that interaction that keeps this going. At the moment the hype is all about gel polishes, I presume that will die off when the next craze comes along and the forums will be flooded with questions about that.
Please be a little patient with all the questions, for you seasoned pro's youve seen it all before, heard it a 1000 times etc, but for lots of people like me who have just come here, we are finding it very helpful and are gleaning lots of useful information.
What does upset me is the bitchiness I see happening, and there can be a sense of people being 'clicky' this is a shame, as this site is so good on many different levels. There is no need at all for nastiness, or for being 'short' with someone just because its yet another question on the same theme. What might be unimportant to one person is important to another.

Sorry if ive rambled on a bit

 

[elliebee]

I don't know how difficult it would be for the site team to regulate but I wonder if there would be some way to check credentials before members are allowed to post on the professonal forum.

Perhaps the easiest way would be for members to submit their Insurance Policy details. That way, you can be assured that those members who are visiting the Professional forums have been trained and are insured.

I think this would solve a lot of the "what's the best/cheapest etc" posts from the messers and would keep this side of the forum on track.

It would also still allow the chit chat, consumer part etc to carry on and those of us who only want to participate in the professional side can do so.

 

[ProperPrincess]

Here is a definition I like: For the difference between a trade and a profession.

A trade is an occupation requiring manual or mechanical skill.

A profession is vocational, a calling requiring specialized knowledge and often long and intensive academic preparation.

I think the bold type distinguishes between the two and is where the difference lies.

Every job whether it is in a trade or in a profession requires academic preparation and skill, the difference is in how much IMO. This is why I refer to some as non-professionals because they have not had the required fundamental knowledge or academic preparation to even be involved in the business of working on people's nails.

Love the way this has been put. X

 

[essentia]

I don't know how difficult it would be for the site team to regulate but I wonder if there would be some way to check credentials before members are allowed to post on the professonal forum.

Perhaps the easiest way would be for members to submit their Insurance Policy details. That way, you can be assured that those members who are visiting the Professional forums have been trained and are insured.

I think this would solve a lot of the "what's the best/cheapest etc" posts from the messers and would keep this side of the forum on track.

It would also still allow the chit chat, consumer part etc to carry on and those of us who only want to participate in the professional side can do so.

Unfortunatley it is the insurance companies that are underwriting the flimsy one day courses as well - would make no difference IMHO.

 

[Rhona_]

I am relatively new to the forums (been here a few months) but only joined because I wanted to ask a question. Prior to joining, Google and the SG search function were perfectly sufficient to my needs. I wish other newbies appreciated Google/search as much as I did/do!

I've never clicked on the Chit Chat forum (although I've stumbled on some of the threads on the search function) because it doesn't appeal to me at all. Whether on my phone or laptop I check the Biz Geek and Skin Geek and that's all. It's a shame that "chit chat" sneaks into the professional posts as well.

I would love to see regulated professional forums too but I can't see that being easy! Another idea that crossed my mind was to have membership fees for the professional side. I reckon this would deter the types of people that come on looking for the cheapest this and cheapest that, but it could also mean losing valuable members which obviously isn't ideal.

 

[linzi]

I didn't say they were more important at all. I said I don't think the training could be compared. In some aspects as Geeg said yesit can. But, in my opinion as a whole they are entirely different.

Nor did I say our skills werent valid but I dont think they are equally valid no. But that's my opinion.

Do you think I'm reinforcing this attitude? I'm passionate about what I do. I love it. But I'm not changing lives to the extent doctors do and I think if I thought that I'd have to question myself. That's my opinion. Sorry if anyone is offended by it. I respect all of you, especially those than are continually learning, I never fail to be impressed on here.

Whilst I didn't say our training isn't as important as a doctor I do believe it. To me my training is as important. But I'm under no illusion that it is to anyone else.

I know you didn't; that's why I put it in inverted commas. My point is that the original distinction was made to show that you wouldn't allow a messer to set up as a doctor after one day, or as a mechanic, or in any other trade or profession. So why allow is in ours?

So yes, whilst I'm under no illusions that we're working towards preserving life - either by means of medical intervention or by ensuring our vehicles are safe to drive - I do think that our training is something that should be protected from messers. I also think it's partly down to the training providers themselves. But, alas, while they're receiving money they're hardly likely to stop?


I left a few spaces between my last point so as to separate it from my reply to you. As I said, it was something that had been on my mind since reading the thread and was not part of my reply to you. I apologise if that was unclear

 

[welshrarebit]

just had another thought - if everyone used the search facility for answers to their questions, then this site would come to a standstill as there would hardly be any new posts. The only new daily posts would be in the chit chat section about what was had for the last meal etc.
While people are asking questions on a daily basis, albeit the same type of question it is keeping this site alive.
The type of questions that newbies have are going to get asked time and time again. If that person is being directed to the search facility what message does that give someone? That people on this site cant be bothered to reply to that person who has come here to look for help and advice and a friendly person to answer their question. Ive seen lots of posts by people who begin their post with an apology for asking the question saying ''I know question has been asked before'' etc ..... - surely that isnt right, what impression must that person have if they feel the need to apologise for asking a question.
Sometimes there might just be a person viewing who has a different perspective and can give a reply to that same question that maybe no-one else has.

 

[ProperPrincess]

I know you didn't; that's why I put it in inverted commas. My point is that the original distinction was made to show that you wouldn't allow a messer to set up as a doctor after one day, or as a mechanic, or in any other trade or profession. So why allow is in ours?

So yes, whilst I'm under no illusions that we're not working towards preserving life - either by means of medical intervention or by ensuring our vehicles are safe to drive - I do think that our training is something that should be protected from messers. I also think it's partly down to the training providers themselves. But, alas, while they're receiving money they're hardly likely to stop?


I left a few spaces between my last point so as to separate it from my reply to you. As I said, it was something that had been on my mind since reading the thread and was not part of my reply to you. I apologise if that was unclear

That's why I asked because I didnt think it was aimed at me x

I agree entirely. But the reason doctors and mechanics can't just set up is because those professions and trades are regulated. Something obviously we would all benefit from in this industry x

Please don't think I was being "a cow" I absolutely love making someone feel better and look better. X

 

[elliebee]

I don't know how difficult it would be for the site team to regulate but I wonder if there would be some way to check credentials before members are allowed to post on the professonal forum.

Perhaps the easiest way would be for members to submit their Insurance Policy details. That way, you can be assured that those members who are visiting the Professional forums have been trained and are insured.

I think this would solve a lot of the "what's the best/cheapest etc" posts from the messers and would keep this side of the forum on track.

It would also still allow the chit chat, consumer part etc to carry on and those of us who only want to participate in the professional side can do so.

Unfortunatley it is the insurance companies that are underwriting the flimsy one day courses as well - would make no difference IMHO.

But surely it would be better than nothing?

 

[Calminginfluenc]

I fear this thread is slowly turning into a one day debate! Lol

That makes me a little nervous!
I have done one day courses, also a full time NVQ, I'm just about to start my lv3 at one of these dreaded one day schools, I can understand the point from both sides.
I have been in college with students who seriously cannot do the work, continuously fail exams and assessments are showing lack of skill and enthusiasm but these people still pass!
I have also been on a one day course and seen people be told they can't have the certificate at the end of the session as the tutor feels they have not done enough study or generally the practical is not of a high enough quality, they need to learn more etc, I myself treat the day courses I do, will do, as a full time course, I research as much as I can and take the exam as if I was in college, I work hard to get the most out of it, I then go home and practice for a long time on my long suffering friends before I consider treating a member if the public!
I then plan to upgrade my "one day" certificate to individual NVQ lv3 units, not just for my own self esteem or even to work in a salon, mainly because I feel that even though I have completed prior learning with my lv2 this forum lumps me in with things that are said on here sometimes!
Please don't get me wrong I to have issues with people having done no A&P training and breezing through but at the same time I've seen people quit college because they feel the education provide is well below standard!!
As far as I am concerned its not just the one day schools that need to be regulated, it's all education providers in this industry! It doesn't help our reputation if a college refuses to fail a completely incompetent person because they will lose funding!! (one girl passed her leg wax assessment that took her over an hour to complete and also left wax and hair everywhere!!)

Because of the experiences I have had with college I will be doing my lv3 work based and I don't feel I will have any less of an education because it's MY responsibly to learn as much as I can and I intend to do that!!

Sorry got a little carried away there didn't I!!!
Xx

 

[essentia]

But surely it would be better than nothing?

I agree with you in principle - maybe it should be full quals that qualify NVQ's, IHBC, CIDESCO, C&G etc?

 

[essentia]

I fear this thread is slowly turning into a one day debate! Lol

That makes me a little nervous!
I have done one day courses, also a full time NVQ, I'm just about to start my lv3 at one of these dreaded one day schools, I can understand the point from both sides.
I have been in college with students who seriously cannot do the work, continuously fail exams and assessments are showing lack of skill and enthusiasm but these people still pass!
I have also been on a one day course and seen people be told they can't have the certificate at the end of the session as the tutor feels they have not done enough study or generally the practical is not of a high enough quality, they need to learn more etc, I myself treat the day courses I do, will do, as a full time course, I research as much as I can and take the exam as if I was in college, I work hard to get the most out of it, I then go home and practice for a long time on my long suffering friends before I consider treating a member if the public!
I then plan to upgrade my "one day" certificate to individual NVQ lv3 units, not just for my own self esteem or even to work in a salon, mainly because I feel that even though I have completed prior learning with my lv2 this forum lumps me in with things that are said on here sometimes!
Please don't get me wrong I to have issues with people having done no A&P training and breezing through but at the same time I've seen people quit college because they feel the education provide is well below standard!!
As far as I am concerned its not just the one day schools that need to be regulated, it's all education providers in this industry! It doesn't help our reputation if a college refuses to fail a completely incompetent person because they will lose funding!! (one girl passed her leg wax assessment that took her over an hour to complete and also left wax and hair everywhere!!)

Because of the experiences I have had with college I will be doing my lv3 work based and I don't feel I will have any less of an education because it's MY responsibly to learn as much as I can and I intend to do that!!

Sorry got a little carried away there didn't I!!!
Xx

I understand and it has been well debated on here as you know. As someone mentioned earlier the whole system needs reform - it really is time for it. However we still need benchmark quals and one day courses sadly do not make a therapist - however keen or discerning you are.:hug:

 

[lila22]

I fear this thread is slowly turning into a one day debate! Lol

That makes me a little nervous!
I have done one day courses, also a full time NVQ, I'm just about to start my lv3 at one of these dreaded one day schools, I can understand the point from both sides.
I have been in college with students who seriously cannot do the work, continuously fail exams and assessments are showing lack of skill and enthusiasm but these people still pass!
I have also been on a one day course and seen people be told they can't have the certificate at the end of the session as the tutor feels they have not done enough study or generally the practical is not of a high enough quality, they need to learn more etc, I myself treat the day courses I do, will do, as a full time course, I research as much as I can and take the exam as if I was in college, I work hard to get the most out of it, I then go home and practice for a long time on my long suffering friends before I consider treating a member if the public!
I then plan to upgrade my "one day" certificate to individual NVQ lv3 units, not just for my own self esteem or even to work in a salon, mainly because I feel that even though I have completed prior learning with my lv2 this forum lumps me in with things that are said on here sometimes!
Please don't get me wrong I to have issues with people having done no A&P training and breezing through but at the same time I've seen people quit college because they feel the education provide is well below standard!!
As far as I am concerned its not just the one day schools that need to be regulated, it's all education providers in this industry! It doesn't help our reputation if a college refuses to fail a completely incompetent person because they will lose funding!! (one girl passed her leg wax assessment that took her over an hour to complete and also left wax and hair everywhere!!)

Because of the experiences I have had with college I will be doing my lv3 work based and I don't feel I will have any less of an education because it's MY responsibly to learn as much as I can and I intend to do that!!

Sorry got a little carried away there didn't I!!!
Xx

Totally agree on this quote " I research as much as I can and take the exam as if I was college, I work hard to get the most out of it, I then go home and practice for a long time on my long suffering friends before I consider treating a member if the public! "
I also think its to do with your standards, people like the girl you said will go out and wax but at the end of the day i doubt people will come back, im a perfectionist and if i cant do something to my standard i would not charge, i would do it until i was happy then charge but unfortunally not everyone cares, there just in it to make a quick buck!xx

 

[geeg]

Personally I don't think this thread has to turn into a long list of justifications of our own personal standards and the way this thread is going we are now on a whole new topic and off the original topic for which I take some of the responsibility (sorry Hippy-chic) but is is a good thread. :hug:

Salon geek is a teaching site .. we should be teaching the facts and that is what we are known for. As a teaching site we naturally attract beginners and professionals and this site has encouraged many who have no training at all to come here to view to go into the beauty professions; it could not do that if it were professional qualified only. What's more, many people who do one day courses and have the piece of paper think they ARE qualified ...

How could salon geek possibly check on 'qualifications some of which aren't worth the paper they are written on? Impossible and not going to happen ... not unless you want to start paying for salon geek ... and that has never been the community we want to have of only top professionals talking to top professionals ... not what we are about at all.

 

[Calminginfluenc]

I understand and it has been well debated on here as you know. As someone mentioned earlier the whole system needs reform - it really is time for it. However we still need benchmark quals and one day courses sadly do not make a therapist - however keen or discerning you are.:hug:

That's the reason why I still plan to do my nvq3 and do it work based rather that at college, because this way I feel I get more out of it I can build my portfolio in my own time on real customers, doing it in my own time means I do not qualify till I feel I'm ready to do so, not when I'm told to move onto the next unit, so I can learn thoroughly rather than be passed on a unit because we have a certain amount of time to cover it (like I was with my strip lashes, I have applied exactly 1 on 1 eye in my entire life but my college passed me!!! (just so you know I don't offer this treatment for exactly this reason) this is why I fail to see why people don't have more of an issue with substandard education in general! It's not just one day courses that churn out substandard education! It's across the board, that's why how keen and discerning a person is makes a lot of difference because I'm learning more at home than I ever did at college!! 😊

 

[lila22]

Personally I don't think this thread has to turn into a long list of justifications of our own personal standards and the way this thread is going we are now on a whole new topic and off the original topic for which I take some of the responsibility (sorry Hippy-chic) but is is a good thread. :hug:

Salon geek is a teaching site .. we should be teaching the facts and that is what we are known for. As a teaching site we naturally attract beginners and professionals and this site has encouraged many who have no training at all to come here to view to go into the beauty professions; it could not do that if it were professional qualified only. What's more, many people who do one day courses and have the piece of paper think they ARE qualified ...

How could salon geek possibly check on 'qualifications some of which aren't worth the paper they are written on? Impossible and not going to happen ... not unless you want to start paying for salon geek ... and that has never been the community we want to have of only top professionals talking to top professionals ... not what we are about at all.

I guess even paying would still not stop people who dont have any qualifications coming on here for advice and tips! xx

 

[Kim Lawless]

It's nothing to do with how long the training is…….it's to do with how good the trainer is.

You start off with good training and you'll get better and better at being good. You start off with bad training and you'll get better and better at being bad.

Anyway, back to the original intention of this thread. I would like to see more talk about technique rather than brands. We all do it (me included); someone starts bashing on about their favourite brand so we all jump in with our favourite brand and before you know it, it's just a long list of 'my brand is bigger than your brand' old nonsense.

I don't see why any forum has to have a chit chat or blogs as there are plenty of forums for just that. I don't get it but not to say I want it gone as I don't feel strongly enough about it as I only click on the SKIN forum.

 

[angelina221]

I think a lot of the problem is people fresh out of school or college, go and do a one day nail course/spray tan course/lash extension course or whatever. They then think that they know everything, call themselves a managing director and then stumble on this site.
I'm not saying everyone is like this but there are a lot. They have no life experience and certainly no business experience which is why they come on here and ask the most banal questions.
I think the training standards are poor for a lot of courses and they have a lot to answer for.
I have done a lot of one day courses and NVQ level3 beauty and I also have a teaching qualification.
A lot of people go into beauty and don't realise how hard it is going to be which is why a lot drop out of the college courses. The colleges have a certain number that have to pass so people who shouldn't really have passed, do.
The NVQ booklets highlight which questions are going to be asked and then have multiple choice questions for the assessment.
PTLLS qualifications nearly always have a 100% pass rate.
I am qualified in electrolysis, microdermabrasion, non-surgical face-lift and derma rollers. These treatments require a good deal of knowledge about the systems of the human body and I revised extensively.
When it came to doing test for these subjects the questions were so basic that my kids would have passed some of them.
I was completely gobsmacked. I need to know my treatments inside out so that I know exactly what I'm doing and can answer any questions my clients may have.
Unfortunately not everyone is so dedicated and this is why we have people on here asking the most basic questions.

 

[lila22]

I think a lot of the problem is people fresh out of school or college, go and do a one day nail course/spray tan course/lash extension course or whatever. They then think that they know everything, call themselves a managing director and then stumble on this site.
I'm not saying everyone is like this but there are a lot. They have no life experience and certainly no business experience which is why they come on here and ask the most banal questions.
I think the training standards are poor for a lot of courses and they have a lot to answer for.
I have done a lot of one day courses and NVQ level3 beauty and I also have a teaching qualification.
A lot of people go into beauty and don't realise how hard it is going to be which is why a lot drop out of the college courses. The colleges have a certain number that have to pass so people who shouldn't really have passed, do.
The NVQ booklets highlight which questions are going to be asked and then have multiple choice questions for the assessment.
PTLLS qualifications nearly always have a 100% pass rate.
I am qualified in electrolysis, microdermabrasion, non-surgical face-lift and derma rollers. These treatments require a good deal of knowledge about the systems of the human body and I revised extensively.
When it came to doing test for these subjects the questions were so basic that my kids would have passed some of them.
I was completely gobsmacked. I need to know my treatments inside out so that I know exactly what I'm doing and can answer any questions my clients may have.
Unfortunately not everyone is so dedicated and this is why we have people on here asking the most basic questions.

I no the NVQ2 was more like a science course in the beginning but its the ground information needed to know what your dealing with xx