Hi all, have had a nightmare this weekend with a balyage. I double processed with bleach and 20vol as her hair was so dark. This was after doing many test cuttings. The 1st time came out very orange. Then after 2nd slightly less orange but still not great. I applied a toner, Dia- light 7.31 which did tone it a lot but wasn't quite what we wanted. Wanted more of a caramel highlight. I have attached a picture of outcome so would appreciate any advice on what I can do next. Thanks.
Balyage
- Thread starter gel3101
- Start date
Help Support SalonGeek:
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2011
- Messages
- 10,907
- Reaction score
- 6,919
Was her hair coloured or virgin?
Grace_Hair
Well-Known Member
You should have probably used a colour reduced first.
I would only ever use 20vol on Virgin hair when it comes to balayage.
It looks to me that you also didn't think of your neutralisation when applying toner. I assume NC is natural copper? You should have used something with a stronger blue tone if so.
I would only ever use 20vol on Virgin hair when it comes to balayage.
It looks to me that you also didn't think of your neutralisation when applying toner. I assume NC is natural copper? You should have used something with a stronger blue tone if so.
Hi, no NC in the rusk range is natural cool. So basically a flat base 5.
Colorby__Ashleymelissa
Member
I would have used effisol on her ends first to remove the previous color , usually you mix it with hot water.
With baylage you definitely have to use a higher developer and make sure you saturate it enough to fully lift to the color out, when I balayage I use a splash of 130 vol and 40 vol, both mixed together usually makes 85 vol, Make sure you watch it though. High volumes of developer require you to work a lot faster.
With baylage you definitely have to use a higher developer and make sure you saturate it enough to fully lift to the color out, when I balayage I use a splash of 130 vol and 40 vol, both mixed together usually makes 85 vol, Make sure you watch it though. High volumes of developer require you to work a lot faster.
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2011
- Messages
- 10,907
- Reaction score
- 6,919
130vol? Is this a typo? Where do you buy it from?
You can't generally buy higher then 40 vol in Europe. (I think some places sell 60 vol as a liquid peroxide but I wouldn't use it.) Using a much higher vol of developer is surely going to seriously damage the cuticle layer?
I completely agree with @Grace_Hair about using a colour reducer.
A colour reducer removes artificial colour pigment but doesn't affect the natural pigments. Effasor is bleach based so not worth bothering with, in my opinion.
Daniel Williams
Danielwilliamshair
130 vol isnt as string as you think
its not available in europe (UK or Ireland anyway!) Guy Tang used it on his male model on Youtube recently (might have been less or morw but was over 100vol
Daniel Williams
Danielwilliamshair
130 vol isnt as string as you think
Its Very stable too130 vol isnt as string as you think
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2011
- Messages
- 10,907
- Reaction score
- 6,919
For goodness sake Daniel, you're talking utter gibberish, as usual!
Peroxide above 40 vol (12%) is not likely to be cosmetic grade peroxide with added stabilisers and conditioners so it's more likely to be liquid peroxide and therefore, a lot more volatile.
Exposure to light or heat could lead to it combusting.
What do you mean by 'not as strong as I think'?
If it's liquid 130 vol, it's approximately 30% pure peroxide with 70% water.
40 vol liquid peroxide by comparison is 12% peroxide and 88% water.
If it's sold as 130 volume, it is what it is by definition.
Obviously in Europe, you can acquire higher volumes for other purposes (industrial use) but you should never use non cosmetic grade peroxide for lightening hair on paying clients.
That's highly dangerous and exceptionally unprofessional in my opinion and personally, I don't care what Guy Tang does. He's paid to mess around.
Peroxide above 40 vol (12%) is not likely to be cosmetic grade peroxide with added stabilisers and conditioners so it's more likely to be liquid peroxide and therefore, a lot more volatile.
Exposure to light or heat could lead to it combusting.
What do you mean by 'not as strong as I think'?
If it's liquid 130 vol, it's approximately 30% pure peroxide with 70% water.
40 vol liquid peroxide by comparison is 12% peroxide and 88% water.
If it's sold as 130 volume, it is what it is by definition.
Obviously in Europe, you can acquire higher volumes for other purposes (industrial use) but you should never use non cosmetic grade peroxide for lightening hair on paying clients.
That's highly dangerous and exceptionally unprofessional in my opinion and personally, I don't care what Guy Tang does. He's paid to mess around.
cassies97
Well-Known Member
Hydrogen Peroxide is an unstable compound as it is. Its very volatile.
Daniel Williams
Danielwilliamshair
By not as strong as you think I mean it's not as damaging as you would think, i too was at first skeptical and thought WHAT 130 VOLUME WHAT THE HELL WHY WOULD YOU PUT THAT ON HAIR, 40'S BAD ENOUGH! but after watching Guy's video you can see it didn't lift as quickly or do as much damage as I'd expect, and by stable I mean it's not inferior....For goodness sake Daniel, you're talking utter gibberish, as usual!
Peroxide above 40 vol (12%) is not likely to be cosmetic grade peroxide with added stabilisers and conditioners so it's more likely to be liquid peroxide and therefore, a lot more volatile.
Exposure to light or heat could lead to it combusting.
What do you mean by 'not as strong as I think'?
If it's liquid 130 vol, it's approximately 30% pure peroxide with 70% water.
40 vol liquid peroxide by comparison is 12% peroxide and 88% water.
If it's sold as 130 volume, it is what it is by definition.
Obviously in Europe, you can acquire higher volumes for other purposes (industrial use) but you should never use non cosmetic grade peroxide for lightening hair on paying clients.
That's highly dangerous and exceptionally unprofessional in my opinion and personally, I don't care what Guy Tang does. He's paid to mess around.
Also how dare you be so rude lol? This is a friendly forum? 'for goodness sake Daniel, you're talking utter gibberish, as usual!' no need for that.... Have you ever used 130 volume peroxide on hair? Don't be so quick to pounce....
Guy is paid to mess/experiement, yes, but he's not gonna use 130 vol if he knows it'll literally disintegrate someones hair in minutes is he?
this is the video where he uses 130 volume peroxide,
I watched the video. He uses 50 vol which is appropriate for the clay based lightener for balayage in open air with no heat, adding Olaplex which dilutes it slightly (we will say to 40 vol, but it's probably not that much) and then he adds just a capful of 130 vol to bring it back up to 50vol.
He says he usually measures with a scale to achieve this but he didn't have them to hand for the camera. No one is putting 130vol on hair and this is one of the very limited use cases for 130vol.
Measure rather than adding a "splash". 85 vol was mentioned above, but that would be 28%, I believe that is a typo and the author meant 45vol. 85 vol is more than double the peroxide concentration of 12%/40 vol.
Here are the amounts and calculations.The formula for concentration of a solution we need to use here is:
[Amount Solution A * Concentration A] + [Amount Solution B * Concentration of B] = Amount of Resultant * Concentration of resultant
To make 100ml of 50vol from 40vol and 130vol:
You are starting with a solution of 12%(40vol) and you want a result of 16%(50vol) by adding 35%(130vol).
We will use percentages expressed as decimal for the calculation. 100% = 1.00 so 12% = 0.12, 16% = 0.16 and 35% = 0.35.
[(x*0.12)]+[(100-x)*0.35]=100*0.16 when calculated gives a value for x, the unknown quantity of solution A, as 82.6087.
83ml 40vol + 17ml 130vol = 100ml 50vol
You can also measure in grams, it's the same.
To make 100ml of 50 vol from 40 vol and 60 vol:
We want to know how much 12% (40 vol) and 20% (60 vol) we need to mix together to make 100ml of 50 vol (16%).
[(x*0.12)]+[(100-x)*0.2]=100*0.16 gives x equals 50.
50ml 40vol + 50ml 60vol = 100ml 50vol
We also know this from ratios.
Measure measure measure if you are not using peroxide out of the bottle. With our maths done now, it looks like the capful (let's say 10ml) of 130 vol that Guy Tang added to his clay lightener/50vol/Olaplex mix was just enough to bump the developer back to 50 vol after the Olaplex dilution. So he was using 50 vol for his balayage, not 130 vol and it's misleading to say he did.
I am happy to explain the maths to anyone who needs help! You can find a similar tutorial here https://www.algebra.com/algebra/hom...ixture_Word_Problems.faq.question.508089.html
He says he usually measures with a scale to achieve this but he didn't have them to hand for the camera. No one is putting 130vol on hair and this is one of the very limited use cases for 130vol.
Measure rather than adding a "splash". 85 vol was mentioned above, but that would be 28%, I believe that is a typo and the author meant 45vol. 85 vol is more than double the peroxide concentration of 12%/40 vol.
Here are the amounts and calculations.The formula for concentration of a solution we need to use here is:
[Amount Solution A * Concentration A] + [Amount Solution B * Concentration of B] = Amount of Resultant * Concentration of resultant
To make 100ml of 50vol from 40vol and 130vol:
You are starting with a solution of 12%(40vol) and you want a result of 16%(50vol) by adding 35%(130vol).
We will use percentages expressed as decimal for the calculation. 100% = 1.00 so 12% = 0.12, 16% = 0.16 and 35% = 0.35.
[(x*0.12)]+[(100-x)*0.35]=100*0.16 when calculated gives a value for x, the unknown quantity of solution A, as 82.6087.
83ml 40vol + 17ml 130vol = 100ml 50vol
You can also measure in grams, it's the same.
To make 100ml of 50 vol from 40 vol and 60 vol:
We want to know how much 12% (40 vol) and 20% (60 vol) we need to mix together to make 100ml of 50 vol (16%).
[(x*0.12)]+[(100-x)*0.2]=100*0.16 gives x equals 50.
50ml 40vol + 50ml 60vol = 100ml 50vol
We also know this from ratios.
Measure measure measure if you are not using peroxide out of the bottle. With our maths done now, it looks like the capful (let's say 10ml) of 130 vol that Guy Tang added to his clay lightener/50vol/Olaplex mix was just enough to bump the developer back to 50 vol after the Olaplex dilution. So he was using 50 vol for his balayage, not 130 vol and it's misleading to say he did.
I am happy to explain the maths to anyone who needs help! You can find a similar tutorial here https://www.algebra.com/algebra/hom...ixture_Word_Problems.faq.question.508089.html
jamiereid92
Well-Known Member
I think my mind just blew up reading this!!!
If she wants to go lighter still sell her a hair mask for repair, and leave it at least 2 weeks.
Then balyage again.
Someone said earlier you should have toned with something blue, the fact she had a cool colour on previously is irrelevant. She was a 5 which is reddy orange underneath. Now it is orange you need to tone with something blue based to counter act the orange... think of the colour wheel.
If she wants to go lighter still sell her a hair mask for repair, and leave it at least 2 weeks.
Then balyage again.
Someone said earlier you should have toned with something blue, the fact she had a cool colour on previously is irrelevant. She was a 5 which is reddy orange underneath. Now it is orange you need to tone with something blue based to counter act the orange... think of the colour wheel.
jamiereid92
Well-Known Member
And don't use 130 Vol!!!!! What is that even designed for? Paint stripper??
Thank you.
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2011
- Messages
- 10,907
- Reaction score
- 6,919
I think you'll find that using anything above 12% (40vol) will invalidate your insurance, in the UK. (and Europe...!)
jamiereid92
Well-Known Member
I rarely ever use lightner with higher than 6% I prefer a slower, more even and cleaner lift, rather than quick yellow ruined hair.
If you feel like you need to use higher than 12% too achieve the desired look then you should think if the look is actually achievable without destroying the hair.
It may say on these videos you can do this but I'm sure as he'll it doesn't say that on the manufacturers instructions on the lightner.
Remember the importance of the integrity of the hair xx
If you feel like you need to use higher than 12% too achieve the desired look then you should think if the look is actually achievable without destroying the hair.
It may say on these videos you can do this but I'm sure as he'll it doesn't say that on the manufacturers instructions on the lightner.
Remember the importance of the integrity of the hair xx
