Botox

[nickysunnyday]

Hi I'm a registered nurse and considering starting my own business delivering aesthetic treatments such as botox. I'm wanting to know what the demand is like in Yorkshire, how many clients are asking for it and what treatments are they requesting?

Also what's your experience of delivering botox treatments in your salons? How frequently do you require a nurse/doctor to administer the treatments?

What insurance/registration do you as a salon need to take out? I will obviously have my own medical indemnity insurance.

Would anyone out there be interested in the uptake of my service, coming into your salon to treat your clients, working on a commision basis?

Thanks everyone and looking forward to your thoughts and opinions.

Nicky :lol:

 

[loubylou]

I have offered this for over 2 years in my salon,
interest has been shown but they all change their minds when they see the prices,
for an example a well known cosmetic hospital were offering 3 areas for a much cheaper price than the company that i use,
i haven't had one taker yet and i think it is all to do with the expense,
we cant blame the recession as it was not here when i started to offer it,

i dont need to take out any extra insurance as it is not me providing the service,
i am basically renting space for them to use,

i would need to compare your prices before saying i was interested or not,
don't put your prices on the main forum here hun were not supposed to do that :hug:

 

[THERAPY]

It has been the same at my salon too, the clients show an interest then...nothing.
Not had one client booking in and the service has been offered since Jan this year. x

 

[***juice***]

My friend is paying £900 to do a Botox course (she's a childrens nurse by day) and I'm a bit like...why? She want to do botox parties but tbh if I wanted botox (hopefully that's a bit away just yet ), I'd go to a surgeons practice, I'd just feel better about it as it's more of a surgical procedure in my eyes.

 

[nickysunnyday]

Thanks girls its interesting to know what demand is out there. Not too good with the sounds of it!:irked:

 

[daisyl]

I think you have hit the nail on the head - people do not feel comfortable going to a beauty salon for botox! In my opinion it is not professional.

I am a registered nurse, as you know, but I am also an NIP (Independant prescriber), which is a MUST if you are going to inject botox. As of January next year - remote prescribing for nurses is going to be stopped. The NMC are also writing guidelines for this. So I would advise, if you are going to do a course for botox - also do your Nurse Prescribing degree (if you haven't already), that way you have complete autonomy and can prescribe independantly - which is far better for the patient.

I have a MediSpa, but also employ beauty therapists for all our beauty treatments. As a MediSpa, I offer all aspects of skin health, along with medical peels etc etc, all of which are treated in seperate clinical suites, and I treat PATIENTS not CLIENTS - it is after all a medical procedure.

Botox is the number 1 cosmetic treatment in the UK, and will continue to be so. It is one of my most freqent procedures - but it takes time (as with everything), to build up to a successful business. I know many practitoners who do the training, start going into salons thinking the people will come flooding to you for treatments - it simply does not happen. However, once you have built your reputation, and you have the qualifications and experience, it is a treatment for huge demand, followed by fillers and chemical peels.

I believe I have the right environment - not soley beauty salon, but yet again not a drs surgery or private hospital clinic - which can be offputting. Professional and relaxing environment - maintaining that clinical feel without being overly 'sterile'.

NEVER devalue these types of treatments - special offers etc is unprofessional, and in fact, is discouraged by the medical profession. The price is reflected by the fact it is a prescription medicine, delivered by a highly qualified practitioner, with years of medical experience (taking into account your qualification as a RN and the time and effort it takes into gaining that qualification and your post reg experience and qualifications), my prices reflect that, and indeed my patients return and have done for years. X

 

[daisyl]

My friend is paying £900 to do a Botox course (she's a childrens nurse by day) and I'm a bit like...why? She want to do botox parties but tbh if I wanted botox (hopefully that's a bit away just yet ), I'd go to a surgeons practice, I'd just feel better about it as it's more of a surgical procedure in my eyes.

I am appauled at the fact a qualified nurse wishes to offer botox parties! So would the NMC be. Not the way to go - trust me X

 

[nickysunnyday]

I am an Independent Nurse Prescriber and I think you are right that this is essential if I was to make a career in cosmetic treatments. I really don't want to go down the avenue of botox parties and agree this is not professional and truly de-values the essence of all our hard training and qualifications.

I can now also see why patients/clients would not come flooding into salons for botox treatments, preferring a more clinical environment. For someone like myself wanting to start my own bussiness it seems a huge step to Medispa. Any suggestions on how I can get on the ladder whilst maintaining my professionalism?

Thanks

 

[daisyl]

I have sent you a PM

 

[anna2010]

The NMC are not going to stop remote consultations. They say it is not advisable for remote prescriptions but what is legal is if a prescriber undertakes a consultation with the client and then write a prescription. The consultation does not have to be face to face.

NMC do not support nurses who use a 'friendly' doctor to give them a batch of botox who they then inject into clients without letting them have a consultation with the prescriber. If that happened the nurse would be making a prescribing decision and if they did not hold their V300 this would be illegal.

I work for a company and have had many e-mails with MHRA, NMC, GMC and DOH about this so I know I am right.

 

[daisyl]

The NMC are not going to stop remote consultations. They say it is not advisable for remote prescriptions but what is legal is if a prescriber undertakes a consultation with the client and then write a prescription. The consultation does not have to be face to face.

NMC do not support nurses who use a 'friendly' doctor to give them a batch of botox who they then inject into clients without letting them have a consultation with the prescriber. If that happened the nurse would be making a prescribing decision and if they did not hold their V300 this would be illegal.

I work for a company and have had many e-mails with MHRA, NMC, GMC and DOH about this so I know I am right.

Any nurse who is not a prescriber, who administers botox following a remote consultation for injectable cosmetic purposes will be accountable for their actions and subject to removal from the register by the NMC. They are also in breach of section 11 of the Medicines Act. This is plain and clear for all to see on the NMC website. The GMC and MHRA have included this information as an appendix to their advice. Also IHAS have included this information on their website. Contact Sally Taber from IHAS she will be happy to clarify the situation for all.

To clarify - we are not talking about stopping remote consultations. We are talking about remote consultations for cosmetic injectable purposes. There is no getting away from it. I am not sure I understand what you are saying is 'wrong again' with that information? I too have had face to face talks with the NMC and IHAS.

 

[botoxwales]

I think you have hit the nail on the head - people do not feel comfortable going to a beauty salon for botox! In my opinion it is not professional.

I am a registered nurse, as you know, but I am also an NIP (Independant prescriber), which is a MUST if you are going to inject botox. As of January next year - remote prescribing for nurses is going to be stopped. The NMC are also writing guidelines for this. So I would advise, if you are going to do a course for botox - also do your Nurse Prescribing degree (if you haven't already), that way you have complete autonomy and can prescribe independantly - which is far better for the patient.

I have a MediSpa, but also employ beauty therapists for all our beauty treatments. As a MediSpa, I offer all aspects of skin health, along with medical peels etc etc, all of which are treated in seperate clinical suites, and I treat PATIENTS not CLIENTS - it is after all a medical procedure.

Botox is the number 1 cosmetic treatment in the UK, and will continue to be so. It is one of my most freqent procedures - but it takes time (as with everything), to build up to a successful business. I know many practitoners who do the training, start going into salons thinking the people will come flooding to you for treatments - it simply does not happen. However, once you have built your reputation, and you have the qualifications and experience, it is a treatment for huge demand, followed by fillers and chemical peels.

I believe I have the right environment - not soley beauty salon, but yet again not a drs surgery or private hospital clinic - which can be offputting. Professional and relaxing environment - maintaining that clinical feel without being overly 'sterile'.

NEVER devalue these types of treatments - special offers etc is unprofessional, and in fact, is discouraged by the medical profession. The price is reflected by the fact it is a prescription medicine, delivered by a highly qualified practitioner, with years of medical experience (taking into account your qualification as a RN and the time and effort it takes into gaining that qualification and your post reg experience and qualifications), my prices reflect that, and indeed my patients return and have done for years. X

What are the changes? And how do you define 'remote prescribing'?

 

[botoxwales]

The NMC are not going to stop remote consultations. They say it is not advisable for remote prescriptions but what is legal is if a prescriber undertakes a consultation with the client and then write a prescription. The consultation does not have to be face to face.

NMC do not support nurses who use a 'friendly' doctor to give them a batch of botox who they then inject into clients without letting them have a consultation with the prescriber. If that happened the nurse would be making a prescribing decision and if they did not hold their V300 this would be illegal.

I work for a company and have had many e-mails with MHRA, NMC, GMC and DOH about this so I know I am right.

Anna,

So is it still going to be legal for a doctor to prescribe based on medical questionaires/ phonecall if needed? Thats what we do at the moment.

 

[botoxwales]

Any nurse who is not a prescriber, who administers botox following a remote consultation for injectable cosmetic purposes will be accountable for their actions and subject to removal from the register by the NMC. They are also in breach of section 11 of the Medicines Act. This is plain and clear for all to see on the NMC website. The GMC and MHRA have included this information as an appendix to their advice. Also IHAS have included this information on their website. Contact Sally Taber from IHAS she will be happy to clarify the situation for all.

To clarify - we are not talking about stopping remote consultations. We are talking about remote consultations for cosmetic injectable purposes. There is no getting away from it. I am not sure I understand what you are saying is 'wrong again' with that information? I too have had face to face talks with the NMC and IHAS.

Do you have a link to this info?

Like I said, I think how you define remote prescribing is important. Getting a pile of botox from a doctor and then injecting 20 patients is different to having each client individually prescribed by a doctor regardless of whether the doc sees them face to face.

 

[botoxwales]

Found this:-

Supply and administration of Botox, Vistabel, Dysport and other injectable medicines in cosmetic procedures : MHRA

 

[missweasel]

Found this:-

Supply and administration of Botox, Vistabel, Dysport and other injectable medicines in cosmetic procedures : MHRA

That page was written in 2008, everything that Daisy says is right. Remote prescribing just means you are not having a face to face consultation with the patient, so whether its over the phone, health questionnaire etc it goes against the NMC guidelines (just talking about cosmetic injectables here). Botox, Dysport etc are prescription only drugs so I do not even see how it is even possible to order a bulk batch without corresponding prescriptions.

If you are not a prescriber the only way to do it is to do a dual consultation with a Dr or other prescriber face to face with the patient.

This is just how I understand it.

x

 

[anna2010]

Basically the NMC say it is not advisable for a nurse to inject botox from a remote prescription. This is completely different from a remote consultation!

Remote prescription : this is when a doctor writes mass prescriptions out and a nurse will go and inject someone without that doctor having a consultation with the person receiving botox injections

Remote consultation: this is where the person receiving botox has a consultation with the doctor, they will then decide whether there are any contraindications and have enough information on that client to make a prescribing decision. The doctor will then give direction to administer.

This is not illegal daisyl! MHRA who control all the medicines and legislations say the consultations do not have to be face to face and can take place under any format as long as there is enough information on that client (patients tend to be ill).

What you have to look at is what is a legal aspect and what is a guideline. Botox is a prescription only medicine (POM), this can be injected by anyone (yes anyone) as long as they have received a direction to do so by the prescriber (a doctor, dentist or independant & supplementary prescriber(V300)).

Legally it does not have to be a face to face consultation, as long as the client has a consultation with the prescriber and a direction is given to the person administering it you can carry on working without having to undertake the V300 course.

The IHAS are a voluntary body that is now regulating the industry, however, you do not have to join it. If you want to you will have to become a prescriber as they say consultations have to be face to face. If youdon't want to join it, then don't, save your £500 - £2000, stay legal and keep practicing.

Daisyl, I am sure you are a fab injector and very passionate about what you do (and quite rightly so). But your posts have been misleading by saying only nurses or doctors can inject. this is not true, in fact it states this on the department of healths website. Sorry hun you may not like it but it is true.
x

 

[anna2010]

That page was written in 2008, everything that Daisy says is right. Remote prescribing just means you are not having a face to face consultation with the patient, so whether its over the phone, health questionnaire etc it goes against the NMC guidelines (just talking about cosmetic injectables here). Botox, Dysport etc are prescription only drugs so I do not even see how it is even possible to order a bulk batch without corresponding prescriptions.

If you are not a prescriber the only way to do it is to do a dual consultation with a Dr or other prescriber face to face with the patient.

This is just how I understand it.

x

Daisy is not correct sorry, look at what the MHRA say:-

Does there have to be a face-to face consultation with the practitioner before the product can be administered?There is no legal requirement under the legislation for a face to face consultation with a practitioner. However, he or she should have sufficient information about the patient to give an appropriate direction. It is not sufficient for a nurse or other person who is going to administer the prescription only medicine to have the option to contact the practitioner. In other words, the practitioner must be involved in the decision to administer the medicine to each individual patient. Also, as mentioned above, a general direction applying to any patient who is going to be seen by the nurse/therapist is not sufficient to comply with the law.

This means that a consultation with a prescriber does not have to be face to face. Where it states the practitioner must be involved in the decision to administer to each patient, this is done via a consultation.

What you cannot do is have a direction that can apply to any client (i.e under a PGD or a batch of botox that has been prescribed to any particular client that will then be injected into anyone without the person administering it contacting the prescriber.

Hope this makes sense!!

 

[missweasel]

Daisy is not correct sorry, look at what the MHRA say:-

Does there have to be a face-to face consultation with the practitioner before the product can be administered?There is no legal requirement under the legislation for a face to face consultation with a practitioner. However, he or she should have sufficient information about the patient to give an appropriate direction. It is not sufficient for a nurse or other person who is going to administer the prescription only medicine to have the option to contact the practitioner. In other words, the practitioner must be involved in the decision to administer the medicine to each individual patient. Also, as mentioned above, a general direction applying to any patient who is going to be seen by the nurse/therapist is not sufficient to comply with the law.

This means that a consultation with a prescriber does not have to be face to face. Where it states the practitioner must be involved in the decision to administer to each patient, this is done via a consultation.

What you cannot do is have a direction that can apply to any client (i.e under a PGD or a batch of botox that has been prescribed to any particular client that will then be injected into anyone without the person administering it contacting the prescriber.

Hope this makes sense!!

Ok

I'm by no means an expert but I still believe what Daisy said is correct. I dont think its illegal as in you will get arrested for it but it is definately against the NMC guidelines which could mean you will be removed from the register. When we are talking about botox...THE PRESCRIBER HAS TO HAVE A FACE TO FACE CONSULTATION WITH PATIENT.

This is from the NMC website on remote prescribing:
"This makes it clear that remote prescriptions or directions to administer should only be used in exceptional circumstances, and not as a routine means to administer injectable cosmetic medicinal products.
Should a nurse or midwife decide to administer an injectable cosmetic medicinal product from a remote prescription or direction to administer, they will be accountable for their action."

I am a nurse and therefore governed by the NMC, the guidelines of the MHRA mean nothing, plus that webpage is outdated. Just like the author of this thread I would love to start my own business but it seems like too much of a litigious minefield. I have quite recently qualified as an RN but trained as a beauty therapist so think im just gonna do beauty til I can take my prescribing course. Saying that the NMC dont really seem to be enforcing this and I dont really know how they could anyway and I know loads of nurses who are getting botox via remote prescription but if they have been doing it that way for years theres prob no point in stopping.
Just my opinion.

L xx

 

[daisyl]

Ok

I'm by no means an expert but I still believe what Daisy said is correct. I dont think its illegal as in you will get arrested for it but it is definately against the NMC guidelines which could mean you will be removed from the register. When we are talking about botox...THE PRESCRIBER HAS TO HAVE A FACE TO FACE CONSULTATION WITH PATIENT.

This is from the NMC website on remote prescribing:
"This makes it clear that remote prescriptions or directions to administer should only be used in exceptional circumstances, and not as a routine means to administer injectable cosmetic medicinal products.
Should a nurse or midwife decide to administer an injectable cosmetic medicinal product from a remote prescription or direction to administer, they will be accountable for their action."

I am a nurse and therefore governed by the NMC, the guidelines of the MHRA mean nothing, plus that webpage is outdated. Just like the author of this thread I would love to start my own business but it seems like too much of a litigious minefield. I have quite recently qualified as an RN but trained as a beauty therapist so think im just gonna do beauty til I can take my prescribing course. Saying that the NMC dont really seem to be enforcing this and I dont really know how they could anyway and I know loads of nurses who are getting botox via remote prescription but if they have been doing it that way for years theres prob no point in stopping.
Just my opinion.

L xx

You have hit the nail on the head - as such you are governed by the NMC and are accountable as such.

The NMC will be enforcing this, make no mistake. There is a meeting on 20th May, following on from this the NMC will be further endorsing the position. Any nurse reported for injecting prescriptive medicines for cosmetic purposes on the back of a remote prescrition will be held to account and consequently lose their registration. The newly formed IHAS will be launching a nationwide awareness campaign from June - furthermore, any practice/practitioner who undertakes remote prescribing will not be able to register. It is interesting to also note that the copies and pasted section from the MHRA (outdated) page omitted the annex A regarding remote prescribing FOR COSMETIC INJECTABLES.

Another point worth mentioning - any practitioners reciving supplies from aesthetic pharmacies (medfx, church house etc etc) from the direction of a remote prescription will no longer be able to do so - as these pharmacies will no longer supply direct to the practioner under a remote. The only way a nurse will be able to receive supplies is as an independant prescriber (NIP) following receipt of their own prescription. Other pharmacies will follow suit following on from the NMC meeting on 20th May.

So to sum up - changes are afoot, for the better and WILL be enforced. More importantly, the public are going to have a lot more awareness in the near future.