Business | Ciaté: When Copyright Goes Copywrong

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The Ed.

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If it's not the ongoing saga that has been Addlington-gate (it was Minx, OK?) then it's nail brands and bloggers going head to head over that manicure fad that looks like fish eggs. You know the one, with the little balls? Yes, the Caviar Manicure. There, I said it.

Welcome to the warring worlds of claiming rights to nail looks. Good lord, is it a messy one! The nutshell version of the current battle looks a little something like this.

It's 2010 and Patti Yankee comes up with the phrase 'caviar manicure' as testified to by beauty bloggers all over the world. In 2011 she creates the 'caviar manicure' for Et Ochs Fashion show. In the meantime, beauty bloggers have been creating the look themselves and showing us all how to do it. In 2012 Ciaté launch their 'caviar manicure' kit and then, in what could be seen as a slightly misguided choice (would you want to upset the beauty bloggers??), send out cease and desist letters to beauty bloggers around the world claiming rights to the term 'caviar manicure' and asking them to remove any how-to videos and tutorials that refer to the 'caviar manicure'. Oh, and they also ask them to stop using the term 'caviar manicure'.

The implication is, of course, that Ciaté want to promote the idea that the only way to get this look is if you fork out for their manicure kit and, by owning the rights to it, they can ensure that no one else can copy them and therein lies the irony. The bloggers and Yankee were furious because they felt that it was Ciaté who had copied the look and were now trying to claim it as their own.

"Ciaté made a big mistake sending out those letters," says Pam Pastor of Polish Police blog. "You don't see Chanel kicking up a sh*tstorm when people try to find a cheaper alternative to their limited edition shades."

Yankee took legal advice but unless she was prepared to fork out loads of money and give up loads of time, it wasn't viable. Plus, legally, she doesn't really have a leg to stand on explains Guillermo Jemenez, professor of Law at the Fashion Institute of Technology, "Did the coiner of the phrase sell a product called 'caviar manicure'? If not, no protection. You get not rights for just coining a phrase unless you use it commercially but if the term 'caviar manicure' has becomes known widely for that type of product, then the term could already be 'generic' or 'descriptive' - difficult or impossible to protect with trademark for Ciaté."

The battle continues in its various forms, but the question of who owns what and whether nail technicians, make up artists and hair stylists should be protecting their work in the same way that musicians, for example, do is an interesting one. It's not an easy thing to do and by the sounds of it, it can be costly, but if you think you've developed something fabulous and new that everyone will love and want, keep it quiet, get it protected and put it out there.

Until then...geek on!

The Ed.
 

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Ciate - how rude are you guys!

Very rude is how rude.
 
Ooh i read this online and thought exactly the same as jaquilineanna
 
I just think it's really sad. If you develop a concept and design then fair enough, but if you use someone else's idea and go all legal how can you not expect negative PR out of it? It will just leave a bitter taste in people's mouth.
 
What I've read about Ciates behaviour with the Caviare manicure has actually put me off ordering their kits ( i was going to order a kit in each colour) and get them on my treatment list. I shall be seeking my micro beads elsewhere lol x
 
I suppose if any business feels as tho there business is being affected by cheap less quality options and that therapists are taking advantage of there idea and not buying there stuff then i suppose they have a right to protect there business
 
I suppose if any business feels as tho there business is being affected by cheap less quality options and that therapists are taking advantage of there idea and not buying there stuff then i suppose they have a right to protect there business

Can't quite understand which side of the fence you are on?

The business (Ciate) stole the nail tech/beauty bloggers (Patti Yankee et al) idea and marketed it as their own then tried to stop all the other beauty bloggers etc from using the term caviar nails!
 
Crazy!!! They should have never sent letters out. Now I will never buy a kit from them!
 
Can't quite understand which side of the fence you are on?

The business (Ciate) stole the nail tech/beauty bloggers (Patti Yankee et al) idea and marketed it as their own then tried to stop all the other beauty bloggers etc from using the term caviar nails!

Oh i see well that'sclearly wrong i did not understand it to its full extend clearly there has been a misunderstanding on my part;)
 
Oh i see well that'sclearly wrong i did not understand it to its full extend clearly there has been a misunderstanding on my part;)

Hey beautybemine - :hug: :cool:
 
If it's not the ongoing saga that has been Addlington-gate (it was Minx, OK?) then it's nail brands and bloggers going head to head over that manicure fad that looks like fish eggs. You know the one, with the little balls? Yes, the Caviar Manicure. There, I said it.

Welcome to the warring worlds of claiming rights to nail looks. Good lord, is it a messy one! The nutshell version of the current battle looks a little something like this.

It's 2010 and Patti Yankee comes up with the phrase 'caviar manicure' as testified to by beauty bloggers all over the world. In 2011 she creates the 'caviar manicure' for Et Ochs Fashion show. In the meantime, beauty bloggers have been creating the look themselves and showing us all how to do it. In 2012 Ciaté launch their 'caviar manicure' kit and then, in what could be seen as a slightly misguided choice (would you want to upset the beauty bloggers??), send out cease and desist letters to beauty bloggers around the world claiming rights to the term 'caviar manicure' and asking them to remove any how-to videos and tutorials that refer to the 'caviar manicure'. Oh, and they also ask them to stop using the term 'caviar manicure'.

The implication is, of course, that Ciaté want to promote the idea that the only way to get this look is if you fork out for their manicure kit and, by owning the rights to it, they can ensure that no one else can copy them and therein lies the irony. The bloggers and Yankee were furious because they felt that it was Ciaté who had copied the look and were now trying to claim it as their own.

"Ciaté made a big mistake sending out those letters," says Pam Pastor of Polish Police blog. "You don't see Chanel kicking up a sh*tstorm when people try to find a cheaper alternative to their limited edition shades."

Yankee took legal advice but unless she was prepared to fork out loads of money and give up loads of time, it wasn't viable. Plus, legally, she doesn't really have a leg to stand on explains Guillermo Jemenez, professor of Law at the Fashion Institute of Technology, "Did the coiner of the phrase sell a product called 'caviar manicure'? If not, no protection. You get not rights for just coining a phrase unless you use it commercially but if the term 'caviar manicure' has becomes known widely for that type of product, then the term could already be 'generic' or 'descriptive' - difficult or impossible to protect with trademark for Ciaté."

The battle continues in its various forms, but the question of who owns what and whether nail technicians, make up artists and hair stylists should be protecting their work in the same way that musicians, for example, do is an interesting one. It's not an easy thing to do and by the sounds of it, it can be costly, but if you think you've developed something fabulous and new that everyone will love and want, keep it quiet, get it protected and put it out there.

Until then...geek on!

The Ed.

The thing with this type of stuff is that it is using products that are readily available to anyone to buy.

I can crack on down to hobbycraft right now and buy a massive selection of caviar beads for my nails, I could also get the same from an amazing independent button shop in Cardiff.

The first thing that many of us nail techs do is share nail designs and tutorials, no matter what media is used - they are emailed to us by techs we know love and admire, they are uploaded here for us to learn and have a go at recreating, why should Ciate be any different?
 
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Is it even that popular? It isn't where I'm from!
 
Can't quite understand which side of the fence you are on?

The business (Ciate) stole the nail tech/beauty bloggers (Patti Yankee et al) idea and marketed it as their own then tried to stop all the other beauty bloggers etc from using the term caviar nails!

So why didn't Patti Yankee go ahead and show some initiative and bring it out herself?? I'll tell you why, because she didn't have the balls! I think Ciate showed alot of courage by following through with the idea and bringing it to market. And as for 'Caviar Nails' - thats what Ciate called it and if they trademark it then so what, they made up the name?! Call it something else if it bothers you so much. Can't wait for my kits to arrive, they look so pretty :) **Down with the haters**
 
Well, here they go again... Ciate being all innovative on us again, their next look is..... The velvet manicure :eek:
fashionista's pick: Velvet Nails

Is it just me or does this look familiar.... :rolleyes:
 
=MarthaH;1612129]And as for 'Caviar Nails' - thats what Ciate called it and if they trademark it then so what, they made up the name?!

I'm no mathmetician, but I reckon 2010 is earlier than 2012 by some two years:

"In 2010 and Patti Yankee comes up with the phrase 'caviar manicure' as testified to by beauty bloggers all over the world. In 2011 she creates the 'caviar manicure' for Et Ochs Fashion show. In the meantime, beauty bloggers have been creating the look themselves and showing us all how to do it. In 2012 Ciaté launch their 'caviar manicure' kit."
 
I'm no mathmetician, but I reckon 2010 is earlier than 2012 by some two years:

"In 2010 and Patti Yankee comes up with the phrase 'caviar manicure' as testified to by beauty bloggers all over the world. In 2011 she creates the 'caviar manicure' for Et Ochs Fashion show. In the meantime, beauty bloggers have been creating the look themselves and showing us all how to do it. In 2012 Ciaté launch their 'caviar manicure' kit."

OK but why didn't Patti Yankee bring out a version herself? Maybe she didn't think it would do well? If beauty bloggers are showing us all how to do it then why wasn't anybody offering it in their salons? And if they were then great but whats the point in complaining about a company that brings our a version of it themselves?! It's like blaming Gelish for copying Shellac or vice versa, I just think it's very petty. Doubt Patti Yankee has wept a tear over it either would you?
 
Not sure of your point, as far as I can read no-one is complaining about other people using the idea or profiting from it, the complaint is rather the reverse, i.e. that Ciate have taken a technique and name that was created by someone else and are now trying to prevent those who were previously using the term and method from using it in future. Are you sure you've read the article properly?!
 
Not sure of your point, as far as I can read no-one is complaining about other people using the idea or profiting from it, the complaint is rather the reverse, i.e. that Ciate have taken a technique and name that was created by someone else and are now trying to prevent those who were previously using the term and method from using it in future. Are you sure you've read the article properly?!


Great answer Martin.
 
Didn't Nails Inc do a caviar manicure in 2008!
 
Not sure of your point, as far as I can read no-one is complaining about other people using the idea or profiting from it, the complaint is rather the reverse, i.e. that Ciate have taken a technique and name that was created by someone else and are now trying to prevent those who were previously using the term and method from using it in future. Are you sure you've read the article properly?!

Yes, I think I have read it properly. On paragraph four it says "The implication is, of course, that Ciaté want to promote the idea that the only way to get this look is if you fork out for their manicure kit and, by owning the rights to it, they can ensure that no one else can copy them and therein lies the irony." This to me would surmise that people are complaining about profiting from the idea. Would we be even discussing this if they were giving them out for free - I shouldn't think so.

Martin, I realise is was not an ethical move by Ciate but the fact of the matter is that if I invented a new nail art system, didn't trademark it or patent it, then you decide to do exactly that then tough luck on me and well done to you for spotting the move. I can gaurantee if any of the bloggers complaining about it had did the had thought to do same thing they would be happy bunnies. Power to them I say and most importantly I think the product is fab, have 8 bookings for Saturday for the manicure already from my Facebook account and I only advertised it today :).

#thereisnosuchthingasbadpress
 

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