Can we describe some business models please?

[Chrysalis]

Dear geeks,
After tirelessly reading so many threads on geeks wanting to be self employed, rent rooms, mobile, nail stations etc etc. what is clear is that there is so much confusion about legitimate business models.

There are sooo many that work well but obviously there are pros and cons of each model for each party and this is where I believe negotiations should start before moving into premises, renting a room etc.

I'm also in awe that so many geeks have no written contract, service level agreement or business plan and rely on verbal agreements because they seemed really nice when I went for a coffee!

Then when things don't go to plan all hell let's loose, family members are now using my room, taking my clients, I want to go home early and so forth.

I do get frustrated about all this but can we use this thread to generalise what is usually legal and what is not please. And contribute some issues that can be written into contracts to keep both sides happy?

I will start with a simple issue, if a salon owner does not own the building they run the salon from, unless there is a clause in the lease room renting is usually not allowed, however to be clear on that each lease will need to be viewed by the potential room renter............. However renting a chair, nail station, couch is legitimate in this situation.

 

[hazeleyes]

I'm following this thread with interest.....

 

[Chrysalis]

I'm following this thread with interest.....

Thank you just hope lots of sound advice is put here not emotional "I want to do what I want" stuff. I've got lots more too contribute, if a salon owner has you as self employed, they do have the right to say on what salon workwear should be worn, it's creating an image and professionalism. However again this should be written in the contract, if it's not written it's not enforceable.
For example agency staff in NHS are self employed but have to wear the hospital uniform they are doing a shift in, yes different business but same principle.

 

[hazeleyes]

Thank you just hope lots of sound advice is put here not emotional "I want to do what I want" stuff. I've got lots more too contribute, if a salon owner has you as self employed, they do have the right to say on what salon workwear should be worn, it's creating an image and professionalism. However again this should be written in the contract, if it's not written it's not enforceable.

Yes I think the key is all in the word contract.... Without one then anything goes really and neither party can complain if things go wrong.

 

[Cholo]

Hmmmm.
I totally understand your frustrations and why you've started this thread however (sorry to be a killjoy) I'm not sure this is such a good idea.

I've seen some geeks - who are clearly well respected and trusted- post some TOTALLY incorrect business 'information'. The very fact that they are held in such esteem on this forum means people assume they are right. This is risky.....

I think this thread should be read with a cautionary, 'if you are considering going into partnership, sub contracting, leasing, renting and/or any other business relationship, then get legal advice'.

Yes, geeks can share experiences and offer a lot in terms of 'what's worked for them' but ultimately let those people who can advise in their expert capacity have the final say. They might just save you a lot of money!

 

[Chrysalis]

Hmmmm.
I totally understand your frustrations and why you've started this thread however (sorry to be a killjoy) I'm not sure this is such a good idea.

I've seen some geeks - who are clearly well respected and trusted- post some TOTALLY incorrect business 'information'. The very fact that they are held in such esteem on this forum means people assume they are right. This is risky.....

I think this thread should be read with a cautionary, 'if you are considering going into partnership, sub contracting, leasing, renting and/or any other business relationship, then get legal advice'.

Yes, geeks can share experiences and offer a lot in terms of 'what's worked for them' but ultimately let those people who can advise in their expert capacity have the final say. They might just save you a lot of money!

Yes you are correct, this is never a substitute for legal advice only a starter for the content of a contract I would always have a solicitor check everything prior to signing, again I shouldn't assume everyone does this, however I do

 

[tonicj]

Those highly respected geeks I'm sure would be mature enough to accept if they were wrong! Everyone should feel free to post and there will always be mixed views, we all know that! Keep posting xx

 

[laurakate]

Acas and gov.uk are the go to places for unbiased and factual information.

 

[gillian w]

Self employment and employment say in a salon is actually straightforward.Contracting and agency which obviously nurses would be can confuse things.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/working/intro/empstatus.htm

 

[virtues2011]

Dear geeks,
After tirelessly reading so many threads on geeks wanting to be self employed, rent rooms, mobile, nail stations etc etc. what is clear is that there is so much confusion about legitimate business models.

There are sooo many that work well but obviously there are pros and cons of each model for each party and this is where I believe negotiations should start before moving into premises, renting a room etc.

I'm also in awe that so many geeks have no written contract, service level agreement or business plan and rely on verbal agreements because they seemed really nice when I went for a coffee!

Then when things don't go to plan all hell let's loose, family members are now using my room, taking my clients, I want to go home early and so forth.

I do get frustrated about all this but can we use this thread to generalise what is usually legal and what is not please. And contribute some issues that can be written into contracts to keep both sides happy?

I will start with a simple issue, if a salon owner does not own the building they run the salon from, unless there is a clause in the lease room renting is usually not allowed, however to be clear on that each lease will need to be viewed by the potential room renter............. However renting a chair, nail station, couch is legitimate in this situation.

Every area is negotiable. Some salon owners turn a blind eye to sub let contracts to rent a room or nail desk within their salons regardless if they are freehold or leasehold. Due to the in depth work, the length of the sub contract lease that is generally 10 years with a five year break clause and of course the costs to provide these sub let contracts, and to get an individual to sign the contract for 10 years is difficult, so some salon owners will have a verbal 'Gentlemens' agreement by both parties.

The salon owner is ultimately responsible for her salon regardless if the property is owned or leased. Verbal arrangements can be put in place by the owner and self employed person to wear the salon uniform, clean the salon, how payments are taken, what the splits will be and to make sure the salon is locked and kept safe, these agreed by both parties. Working hours are not usually stated it is up to the individual but is not unheard of. However right or wrong people think this is this is what happens. This is why you see so many threads of ' it's all gone wrong'. I personally would not rent a chair or a room in my salon but many do and you generally read what the outcome is. However lots of salon owners do by verbal agreement and it works well for them. This is where you hear the term ' easy in, easy out'.

I don't believe this site should provide advice for this type of question as so much can be negotiated. You can receive free legal advice on these matters and I would suggest those rather than relying on individuals 'right or wrong' ideas. I hope this helped.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using SalonGeek mobile app

 

[Cholo]

Those highly respected geeks I'm sure would be mature enough to accept if they were wrong! Everyone should feel free to post and there will always be mixed views, we all know that! Keep posting xx

I think you've misunderstood what I was trying to say. I wasn't suggesting that people should stop posting! Nor was I suggesting that people can't accept they're wrong.

My point was, don't just rely on this forum for clarity. People post things with the best will in the world wanting to help out (we all do it!) but there should always be a caveat to get it checked legally!!
Saying 'I read it on Salon Geek' is no defence!!

 

[wonderwoman]

There are apps now to help you with a buisness model/plan. Free apps!
Help is there if you want it....i dont think it should be spoon fed on this site, but ultimatly if you are looking to set up a buisness for yourself or as a salon, YOU NEED to have some logical common sense. Financially, mentially, and obviously competent in your chosen field of overall service.
The hmrc / buisness link/ gov...seminars etc. Legal aspects- whichever country you are in, following the rules, regulations, hygiene, payroll. I think its not baffling if you actually sit down and work your way through it.
Every bank helps you set up a buisness plan, forcast for the next 5 years. You always need to work out/guesstimate your earnings or even product cost. You need to have some idea of unique selling point (USP).

I honestly think now, there are some unfortunate individuals that aint gota the foggest idea of what to do....even a simple thing as choosing a name for your buinsess?! I just dont get how you can have an idea, and not follow it through? Surely thats the one thing that brands you, i honestly just dont get how many ppl are unsure and dont tie it into thier buisness plan. Gosh! xoxo

 

[hazeleyes]

There are apps now to help you with a buisness model/plan. Free apps!
Help is there if you want it....i dont think it should be spoon fed on this site, but ultimatly if you are looking to set up a buisness for yourself or as a salon, YOU NEED to have some logical common sense. Financially, mentially, and obviously competent in your chosen field of overall service.
The hmrc / buisness link/ gov...seminars etc. Legal aspects- whichever country you are in, following the rules, regulations, hygiene, payroll. I think its not baffling if you actually sit down and work your way through it.
Every bank helps you set up a buisness plan, forcast for the next 5 years. You always need to work out/guesstimate your earnings or even product cost. You need to have some idea of unique selling point (USP).

I honestly think now, there are some unfortunate individuals that aint gota the foggest idea of what to do....even a simple thing as choosing a name for your buinsess?! I just dont get how you can have an idea, and not follow it through? Surely thats the one thing that brands you, i honestly just dont get how many ppl are unsure and dont tie it into thier buisness plan. Gosh! xoxo

I asked for business name ideas on here.... Same as I would ask family if friends- as I've seen others do the same and get a good response- doesn't mean I have no idea about business though?

Many people however are unsure... It's not their fault people learn by making mistakes!

 

[wonderwoman]

Ooops! :Love:

Its not meant towards you. Its a general aspect of having a rough idea, rough outline. Buisness accuman...we've all learnt from mistakes and thats where this forum is great to lean on. Yes i think sometimes you air your concerns, and SG is really helpful to reassure people.

But in terms of choosing a name- its about having a rough idea of what angle/vision you ultimatley are trying to achieve. (its the thread of i have no idea what to do, can you pick a name and where do i buy products from threads!:Scared

The internet doesnt appreciate personality...sometimes people lack ideas...

Ive given some wonderful advice in my post, to help newbies. Its not supposed to be meant in a bitchy way.:wink2: xoxo

 

[hazeleyes]

Ooops! :Love:

Its not meant towards you. Its a general aspect of having a rough idea, rough outline. Buisness accuman...we've all learnt from mistakes and thats where this forum is great to lean on. Yes i think sometimes you air your concerns, and SG is really helpful to reassure people.

But in terms of choosing a name- its about having a rough idea of what angle/vision you ultimatley are trying to achieve. (its the thread of i have no idea what to do, can you pick a name and where do i buy products from threads!:Scared

The internet doesnt appreciate personality...sometimes people lack ideas...

Ive given some wonderful advice in my post, to help newbies. Its not supposed to be meant in a bitchy way.:wink2: xoxo

Yes I see what your trying to say, and I agree but it's just sometimes I see people nearly get their heads bitten off on here when asking questions!

I do agree one should not go into business with little or no research, business acumen or in some cases common sense and then rely on SG entirely to get them through it though.

X

 

[virtues2011]

there are apps now to help you with a buisness model/plan. Free apps!can't advise here as i have never used one.
help is there if you want it....i dont think it should be spoon fed on this site, but ultimatly if you are looking to set up a buisness for yourself or as a salon, you need to have some logical common sense. Financially, mentially, and obviously competent in your chosen field of overall service.
The hmrc / buisness link/ gov...seminars etc. Legal aspects- whichever country you are in, following the rules, regulations, hygiene, payroll. i think its not baffling if you actually sit down and work your way through it. i think that comment is a little flippant for most people, to truly understand legalities, standards and procedures for business whether self employed or limited there is an awful lot to learn and it is baffling to most. Agreed that this site shouldn't be available for these questions. Hmrc, business link and the like should be contacted.

every bank helps you set up a buisness plan, forcast for the next 5 years. only if you want to borrow money from them and generally you submit your business plan to them they don't do it for you or help you with it. Their decisions are based on what you tell them and what the searches reveal that they do on you. (although these days who knows - i've never seen this happen personally - I may be wrong here)

you always need to work out/guesstimate your earnings or even product cost. You need to have some idea of unique selling point (usp)... guesstimate???? You'll fail for sure that way - (apologies it is my dislike for that word!) calculated, thorough and researched information should be used on all the above.

i honestly think now, there are some unfortunate individuals that aint gota the foggest idea of what to do....even a simple thing as choosing a name for your buinsess?! I just dont get how you can have an idea, and not follow it through? usually lack of funds and knowledge. I'd rather see ' what can i call my business' than 'i've just opened a salon what next?' surely thats the one thing that brands you, i honestly just dont get how many ppl are unsure and dont tie it into thier buisness plan. Gosh! Xoxo

:d:d:d

 

[wonderwoman]

wowzers....

well I think legal aspects, you should got to these free seminars buisness link put on. They are free and cover many models of buisness. You used to have to pay for this service. People should take the oppertunity.

Every bank has a free downloadable program/cd disk to help you implement your buisness plan. Whether you are guessing a supposed income. ie a minimum of 1 client per day. I think it helps you understand how much you are earning. Also a business account in my opinion is essential, whether you are borrowing or depositing. It clearly shows your ingoings and outgoings in a legal aspect. It also covers you in many insurance ways. Also many banks are extermly helpful in helping you understand more in tems of your profit/loss and with the tax man.

This is where i dont care for catty comments i do things by the book. If you want the help im here to give it. If you want to psycho analyse my words and read between them. Go for it! Good Luck! xoxo

 

[classixuk]

I'll be honest, I usually try to stay out of threads regarding the topic of employed / self employed etc. As so much talk is given to "you can wear what you want and turn up when you want" blah blah and hardly anyone asks the question, "So are you going into business so you can turn up in your jeans at 11.00am or because you want to make some money?" .... It's like the last thing on people's minds is making a business that makes money and the forefront is their "rights"?

That's alien to me.

 

[virtues2011]

wowzers....

well I think legal aspects, you should got to these free seminars buisness link put on. They are free and cover many models of buisness. You used to have to pay for this service. People should take the oppertunity.

Every bank has a free downloadable program/cd disk to help you implement your buisness plan. Whether you are guessing a supposed income. ie a minimum of 1 client per day. I think it helps you understand how much you are earning. Also a business account in my opinion is essential, whether you are borrowing or depositing. It clearly shows your ingoings and outgoings in a legal aspect. It also covers you in many insurance ways. Also many banks are extermly helpful in helping you understand more in tems of your profit/loss and with the tax man.

This is where i dont care for catty comments i do things by the book. If you want the help im here to give it. If you want to psycho analyse my words and read between them. Go for it! Good Luck! xoxo

Where on earth did you get catty comments from?? There was nothing mentioned that was slightly off handed! I even commented about the bank help with business plans - I said I may be wrong here....I even agreed with you! I suppose this is what happens when you take things personally I suppose. Oh Well.

 

[wonderwoman]

:Love:No worries here! (im just a bit defensive today!):Scared: xoxo