Jen889
Well-Known Member
Most places here in canada aren't regulated, like my province, and my Insurance company could care less what lamp you use or if you are using the products correctly
Do cheaper lamps work with Shellac?
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Most places here in canada aren't regulated, like my province, and my Insurance company could care less what lamp you use or if you are using the products correctly
NancySyd
Well-Known Member
I think some of you are confusing "having coverage" with being covered. It is easy enough to get a policy, and most companies don't ask tough questions when you are purchasing a policy. The difficult part is when you have a claim. If you can be shown to have been negligent, most general liability or business owner policies will deny coverage. Not following manufacturers' instruction would certainly be considered negligence - I'm pretty sure CND would say so too. Most policies for Products and Completion will not cover negligence, you need Professional Liability/Errors and Omissions (or Malpractice) policy to cover that.
This applies to the US, but most UK insurers and insurance law follow the same principle.
But I think that what insurance companies do or don't cover is largely irrelevant; very few of us will ever be sued (although it is hell-on-earth if you are). What I think is important is providing the service properly. CND says it isn't a CND Shellac service without their lamp. It's that simple.
This applies to the US, but most UK insurers and insurance law follow the same principle.
But I think that what insurance companies do or don't cover is largely irrelevant; very few of us will ever be sued (although it is hell-on-earth if you are). What I think is important is providing the service properly. CND says it isn't a CND Shellac service without their lamp. It's that simple.
NailsbyToni
Well-Known Member
I don't really have a horse in this race but I liken this argument similarly to homeschooling (which I am now retired from and legally graduated four kids from)--it's a proprietary thing. And because I like it here, I won't go any further than that.
NancySyd
Well-Known Member
I don't really have a horse in this race but I liken this argument similarly to homeschooling (which I am now retired from and legally graduated four kids from)--it's a proprietary thing. And because I like it here, I won't go any further than that.
Of course it's a proprietary thing! It's about companies protecting their brand.
NailsbyToni
Well-Known Member
Bold mine. I'll respectfully disagree on this point. But as I said, I've no horse in this race as strongly as others may have.
NancySyd
Well-Known Member
I don't understand. Could you explain?
NailsbyToni
Well-Known Member
I disagree that it is all about protecting their brand. It's also about making money. You'll say that this is an "of course it is" situation. But I answer that there is no immediate need to use their exact and quite expensive light with their polishes and that the tech can still offer this as a service.
You are here in the states. I don't know you or your services. All I know is that this is one of the reasons we do need regulation in this business. Calling something a shellac "service" is putting too fancy a name on "gel polish service" and thus, creates many issues for client and technician.
Just my opinion.
You are here in the states. I don't know you or your services. All I know is that this is one of the reasons we do need regulation in this business. Calling something a shellac "service" is putting too fancy a name on "gel polish service" and thus, creates many issues for client and technician.
Just my opinion.
NancySyd
Well-Known Member
Okay, I see your point. I disagree, but I see it.
I think that this is conspiracy theory thinking. The money CND, or any manufacturer, makes from the lamps is minuscule. It's like computer printers - they can practically give them away because they make the real money off the cartridges. Similarly, CND makes its money not off some $120 lamp, but off the sale of millions of bottles of Shellac. But if the brand is compromised, say from service breakdown, allergic reactions, nail damage, etc. then the loss is in the millions; it could even destroy the product/brand. That is what CND is protecting.
That said, I would agree that CND has been ridiculously proprietary in protecting their brand. The statement that only the CND lamps can cure Shellac is likely a lie, it undermined CND's credibility, and cost them market share to less persnickety, less proprietary brands. I just hope they've learned their lesson and that when they launch the long-awaited LED lamp, it will be a lamp able to cure other brands, and that CND Shellac will be curable by other brands' lamps.
One can only hope.
I think that this is conspiracy theory thinking. The money CND, or any manufacturer, makes from the lamps is minuscule. It's like computer printers - they can practically give them away because they make the real money off the cartridges. Similarly, CND makes its money not off some $120 lamp, but off the sale of millions of bottles of Shellac. But if the brand is compromised, say from service breakdown, allergic reactions, nail damage, etc. then the loss is in the millions; it could even destroy the product/brand. That is what CND is protecting.
That said, I would agree that CND has been ridiculously proprietary in protecting their brand. The statement that only the CND lamps can cure Shellac is likely a lie, it undermined CND's credibility, and cost them market share to less persnickety, less proprietary brands. I just hope they've learned their lesson and that when they launch the long-awaited LED lamp, it will be a lamp able to cure other brands, and that CND Shellac will be curable by other brands' lamps.
One can only hope.
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NailsbyToni
Well-Known Member
Interestingly, I am actually NOT a conspiracy theorist. I am just a realist who has had to deal with 14 years of the same kind of discussion regarding homeschooling materials and computer materials (I used to work for Gateway and Dell long ago). I know the song and dance about "it will only work with OUR stuff". That's all I was trying to get at.
But other than that, we are on the same page here.
I am just a realist who has had to deal with 14 years of the same kind of discussion regarding homeschooling materials and computer materials (I used to work for Gateway and Dell long ago). I know the song and dance about "it will only work with OUR stuff". That's all I was trying to get at. But other than that, we are on the same page here.
Sparkle Treats
Well-Known Member
$120 CND lamp? ??
Where can i get one of those! ! LOL
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NancySyd
Well-Known Member
That's why I was so shocked at the $500 you cited! 120 is what I paid for my lamp three years ago; it's up to maybe $135-150 now, but $500!! Yikes!
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Jen889
Well-Known Member
The Aussie dollar and Canadian dollar are almost par. Here the lamp is $180, it's shocking that you would have to pay $500.
Sparkle Treats
Well-Known Member
That's including postage from the US, it's about $450 from my local supplier. They are a bit more expensive from there, but they're local, lovely, and i like to support them.
I'm going to ring the larger Sydney suppliers and see what they charge, (just out of curiousity) even tho I've just sold ALL my shellac colours. Got sick of reading that there's nothing better CND shellac, when I'm finding that IBD is just as good, and Gelish wears even longer.
Will stick to the CND acrylic, because i haven't found anything better than that.
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Sharyn
Well-Known Member
Interestingly, before I'd read all of this, I had been pondering why my current UV lamp couldn't be used if I purchased Shellac. As I don't have a cheap lamp, it cost me around $500, has fancy bits, like multiple timer settings and fans and uses four bulbs.... But it's not branded CND.
And in the end I decided that as I don't want to invest another $500 (yup how much the CND lamp is in NZ too!) in yet another fancy lamp to do the same thing, I went with IBD and their Just Gel Polish! They gave me a free LED lamp with my starter kit and told me any brand large LED lamp will do.
I'm a huge CND fan, but the whole 'only our lamp will do' deal was really a bit of a deal-breaker for me... Unless they are going to price them in line with what US suppliers are pricing them at, I won't be offering Shellac.
Sparkle Treats
Well-Known Member
I wish I could not only 'love' your comment, but 'love' it more than once! !!!!
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NailsbyToni
Well-Known Member
And for me, the beauty is that I CAN and do offer "shellac" because it is just another gel polish and we don't (or most salons I have seen, even the fancier ones) do this "CND certified Shellac" business you guys over the pond seem to do (or need to do or are told to do?).
I was looking it up and my thought was confirmed, we do NOT have to use CND light with CND polish to be able to use CND stuff in our salon. That truly must be a regional thing.
And for the American in this discussion who said you cannot offer the service if you don't have everything --I am seriously not sure why you would even offer it as a "service". It's just gel polish. I just say I use gel polish and I have different colors, which color do you want?
It really does not make a hill of beans to my clients or even my area.
Jen889
Well-Known Member
This is where you should be educating your client on the difference between Shellac and gel polish, its really not the same. I offered both at one point and I just happen to prefer Gelish gel polish. I always inform my clients its not shellac as shellac is a brand name for CND. I tell them Gelish is similar but is gel based so it is slightly stronger on weaker nails. Same application, same removal, no damage to the natural nail. I would never say its Shellac as, to me, its deceiving the client and it makes it even harder in the industry to distinguish the two service (yes, its a service as you're offering a manicure with it. Just like a regular polish manicure is a service, just like a pedicure is a service)
NailsbyToni
Well-Known Member
But it isn't that different. A manicure and pedicure come with polish and I don't charge extra for gel polish unless it is the gel paints. Otherwise, it's just part of the larger service--manicure or pedicure or acrylic/gel.
I don't differentiate it by saying "You can have regular polish or Shellac!!". It's just Gel polish or non-gel. If they ask for something specific (as I have had before), I ask them to clarify what they mean.
Because usually, them asking "do you do gels" actually is them saying "I want acrylic with gel polish". I know this because I've actually spent the time explaining the difference in services to them. Just as "Solarnail" is not an actual service, but a brand name, CND Shellac is just a name too. I shouldn't be able to charge more for it just because of the name.
I either factor that into the cost of my other services or don't offer it. But again, I'm sensing it just may be a regional difference here.
princessamie
Well-Known Member
Really am starting to get bored of the same accusations from the same person claiming that Shellac is 'just' a gel polish when, in fact, that's untrue.
It's not a regional thing, it's a global thing.
I'm in no way a CND cheerleader, I've actually just switched brands but, it's getting ridiculous that it's on every Shellac thread!
People come here for advice. Giving OPINIONS and stating that they're fact can actually damage not only a nail tech but, the industry as a whole.
It's not a regional thing, it's a global thing.
I'm in no way a CND cheerleader, I've actually just switched brands but, it's getting ridiculous that it's on every Shellac thread!
People come here for advice. Giving OPINIONS and stating that they're fact can actually damage not only a nail tech but, the industry as a whole.
NailsbyToni
Well-Known Member
I've been waiting for you to show up. It didn't take long. I am sorry you feel that way. Truly. This is advice I received oh so many years ago and I am passing it on. I'm sorry you think it anything else.
I came here to learn too. Realized the region differences and am now making connections. There is a big difference, there truly is.
But that is fine. I'll fix the issue.
I came here to learn too. Realized the region differences and am now making connections. There is a big difference, there truly is.
But that is fine. I'll fix the issue.
