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Gel help

SalonGeek

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ALEX

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Hi Guys, just a quickie!

Hav just started to learn to do gels and was wondering if it was ever possible to over cure a gel nail. (If you do too many minutes in the light box can this damage the gel nails?)
 

Pinkies!

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I don't think a few extra minutes in the lamp will make any difference at all but some people think if you over cure the top gloss it can make it dull (?). I've not experienced this but I'm not sure what time frame causes this (?).

Why do you ask? Are you having problems?

Jade x
 

emma1906

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Hi Alex!

I'm not aware that you can 'overcure' gel. Certainly haven't received any warnings against it with the product I use (Bio Sculpture Gel). Bearing in mind, hands are exposed to UV light every day from natural light and none of my Customers have had any problems, I would say you're ok!

Best Wishes

Emma x
 
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ALEX

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Thanks for your help guys.

I feel a bit dumb with the gel nails having just started. The reason I wondered was because I have just started I am working at just one nail at a time. That means the first nail I do will be spending more time in the light bow than all the others and thought it might effect it?

Just another quick question - do you like to sculpt your gels or use a tip and overlay?
 

nonacrylicgel

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Dear Alex,

Once the chemical reaction triggered by the photo initiators has completed then it is not possible for any further reactive process to take place.

In other words you can't over cure the gel.

However, my note of caution being that I recommend you speak to your supplier because all brands use different formulas and it is entirely possible that they have a product which may react to extended light exposure or if you are using a professional light box a heat reaction.

Which may cause a skin sensititvity. Always better to follow the manufacturers recomendations.

:)


ALEX said:
Thanks for your help guys.

I feel a bit dumb with the gel nails having just started. The reason I wondered was because I have just started I am working at just one nail at a time. That means the first nail I do will be spending more time in the light bow than all the others and thought it might effect it?

Just another quick question - do you like to sculpt your gels or use a tip and overlay?
 

nonacrylicgel

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The single best commerical method is tip and overlay. Better consistency from tech. to tech. if you have a couple of techs. Demands less creative skill and allows more people to create the perfect commercial nail.

Only some gel products are particuarly effective for free form sculpting. Due to viscocity, consistency and whether they self-level, some are also affected by the temperature of the room they are applied in.

For example some brands have to be cured on a per nail basis as they "run", not ideal for free form.

:)
 

Karen_SCV

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Alex, I've just done my BioSculpture training day & from that was told that the gel cannot over cure.

I'm learning to sculpt & as Bio is self levelling it was recommended that we work on one nail at a time then while it is under the lamp work on another nail on the other hand & then swap them over. With Bio it takes 30 seconds under the lamp to "freeze" the gel to stop any more levelling/running so as long as they get that long they will stay put while the rest of the fingers are worked on. Then to ensure full cureing, all the fingers go into the lamp with the last finger to be competed for the full 3 minutes. Then do the thumbs.

But Bio is the only course I've done so I dunno if this applies to other gels, guess you need a definate answer off someone who has knowledge whatever gel you are working with.

Karen
 

nonacrylicgel

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Hmm, how does one answer this without sounding OTT....

It appears to be a property of Bio and Cal which both share same parentage that they are the most runny.

Some systems can dramatically cut down your application by giving you the control over the product.

I can only speak of alessandro and LCN which I know allow you to cure when and how your work-rate allows.
:)



Karen_SCV said:
Alex, I've just done my BioSculpture training day & from that was told that the gel cannot over cure.

I'm learning to sculpt & as Bio is self levelling it was recommended that we work on one nail at a time then while it is under the lamp work on another nail on the other hand & then swap them over. With Bio it takes 30 seconds under the lamp to "freeze" the gel to stop any more levelling/running so as long as they get that long they will stay put while the rest of the fingers are worked on. Then to ensure full cureing, all the fingers go into the lamp with the last finger to be competed for the full 3 minutes. Then do the thumbs.

But Bio is the only course I've done so I dunno if this applies to other gels, guess you need a definate answer off someone who has knowledge whatever gel you are working with.

Karen
 

Karen_SCV

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nonacrylicgel said:
Hmm, how does one answer this without sounding OTT....

It appears to be a property of Bio and Cal which both share same parentage that they are the most runny.

Some systems can dramatically cut down your application by giving you the control over the product.

I can only speak of alessandro and LCN which I know allow you to cure when and how your work-rate allows.
:)
So are you saying that my ""freeze" one finger while working on one on the other hand" slows you down? its not like I'm sitting there doing nothing waiting 3 minutes for one solitary finger to come back out, I'm giving it 30 seconds minimum while I'm doing another nail which I sure can't do in less than 30 seconds, so I'm not taking any more time than my personal speed allows I'm just swapping hands.

Karen
 

The Geek

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HowdA all,

Gels can be overcured, but the effects will seldom ever be seen by simply curing for 5 minutes instead of two at the table.
The results of overcuring can be seen as aging (discolourisation, brittleness) though this has a lot to do with the chemical makeup of the system (i.e. the amount of photoinitiator) it can also have a lot to do with the client themsleves.

As far as overcuring as you work on your client, you really shouldnt have any concerns ;)
 

nonacrylicgel

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If your time is around 45 minutes then ignore me.

A large number of persons I have spoken to using the same, reported times of between 1hr 45 to even 3 hrs for doing nails regularly.

The less steps the better no matter what system.


Karen_SCV said:
So are you saying that my ""freeze" one finger while working on one on the other hand" slows you down? its not like I'm sitting there doing nothing waiting 3 minutes for one solitary finger to come back out, I'm giving it 30 seconds minimum while I'm doing another nail which I sure can't do in less than 30 seconds, so I'm not taking any more time than my personal speed allows I'm just swapping hands.

Karen
 

nonacrylicgel

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Excuse me for pointing out the litigious nature of our society but if you knowingly, or worse, unknowingly use any product against the manufacturers instructions then you leave yourself wide open for litigation.

I know I may now seem less than all-knowing but how does the client effect overcuring?


The Nail Geek said:
HowdA all,

Gels can be overcured, but the effects will seldom ever be seen by simply curing for 5 minutes instead of two at the table.
The results of overcuring can be seen as aging (discolourisation, brittleness) though this has a lot to do with the chemical makeup of the system (i.e. the amount of photoinitiator) it can also have a lot to do with the client themsleves.

As far as overcuring as you work on your client, you really shouldnt have any concerns ;)
 

The Geek

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Simple, as gels cure with UV light, the more exposure to UV light=more curing=more aging.

You can see this for yourself by trying the following:

Overlay your gel on 2 tips (not on a client, just a tip) and cure.
Place 1 tip in a by a window that will get plenty of sunlight (like that can happen in this country ;) )
Place the other tip somewhere that will not get any sunlight (i.e. a dark cupboard).

Depending on the chemistry makeup of the system, you will start to see aging symptoms of the one in sunlight versus the one in the cupboard.

Therefore, the client that has more UV exposure is a client that will experience more aging with their overlays.
 

nonacrylicgel

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Ahh.


Sorry. You can probably predict the next bit.... any good gel and I happen to know 2 of them......

Will not discolour with ageing at all as the curing process is complete if done correctly under the right lightbox for the correct time etc.

They also won't ever discolour under use of sunbed.

Hence why I could not understand your point, honour is saved and I am all-knowing again:rolleyes: .....hmmmm
 

The Geek

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cool. But to the best of my knowledge, ALL gels continue to slowly cure under UV light... but as previously mentioned, most of the effects will be based upon the level of photoinitiator in the system. The more photoinitiator, the faster the effects of aging.
IMO, if any user is curious about their system, doing the 'try this at home' test I mentioned above gives them a great idea how resistant to aging the system is. :green:
 

Little Angel

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welllllll

i use LCN and biosculpture and they both have their place in my salon.. LCN i use for sculpts and bio for wraps. LCN never changes col HOWEVER after a certain ammout of time it can get a little brittle, wereas biosculpture never gets brittle, BUT it isnt as strong and it discolours. They are the minus points and i speak as i find. All in all they are both good gels on the right clients.
 

Pinkies!

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Hi Alex,

I also do one nail at a time as I prefer to use self leveling gels, I have no probs!

I also waaaayyy prefer to sculpt!

Jade x
 

ella

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The Nail Geek said:
cool. But to the best of my knowledge, ALL gels continue to slowly cure under UV light... but as previously mentioned, most of the effects will be based upon the level of photoinitiator in the system. The more photoinitiator, the faster the effects of aging.
IMO, if any user is curious about their system, doing the 'try this at home' test I mentioned above gives them a great idea how resistant to aging the system is. :green:
OK - I don't know if nonacrylicgel answered this in this post as I have the "ignore" switched on, but in response to what the nailgeek said - would you suggest that regular sunbed users would be better to have l&p, or is the deteriation not that noticeable on UV gel?
 

nonacrylicgel

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In general L & P products and most gels all yellow.

I know that Creative L & P doesn't and I beleive EZ doesn't but all the Star equivalents as do the equivalent gels.

I hear what has been said about LCN, I know that the engineering is different on the product I know as theirs is an acrylester resin and ours is derived from dental gel and is a flexible 1 pot application to start off with. The curing has ceased which is crucial difference from other nail products so they don't go crystalline or brittle or ever yellow.

So in my mind their is no argument, gel is better for sunbeds.

I suspect Brisa is going to be non-yellowing, 1 pot application but I am also suspecting that it carries on curing.....but we'll have to wait until the weekend to get a set....

The Geek will tell all!

ella said:
OK - I don't know if nonacrylicgel answered this in this post as I have the "ignore" switched on, but in response to what the nailgeek said - would you suggest that regular sunbed users would be better to have l&p, or is the deteriation not that noticeable on UV gel?
 
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ALEX

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Thanks for all your great help and advice:)
 
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