Hair Loss Due To Perm

[beth25]

Hello,

I had a perm a few years ago and around 2 weeks after getting the perm my hair starting falling out (with the roots). My scalp was in a terrible condition with big flakes of skin coming off. I know about skin so I managed to at least sort that part out There was a patch about the size of a 2p where a whole lock of hair had come out. Everytime I brushed my hair the comb would be filled with hair. 2 years on my hair is much thinner than it was and the actual strands of hair are thinner and more brittle. If I tug my hair with the comb, more hair comes out than usual. Before the perm my hair never came out much at all and it feels like the hair is not strong in the root so I'm still suffereing from it.

I wondered if I could get some advice from a professional as to what could have happened. Other hairdressers just said things like, it's just breaking off but the root was coming out too. There is absolutely nothing else healthwise that could be causing it, I had a full blood test and the doctor checked everything such as thyroid etc so it's not that.

My hair was long midway down my back and reasonably thick. The hairdresser used big rods while doing the perm and applied perm lotion from small bottles then left it for what seemed like about an hour.

I remember it felt quite "nippy" on my head, not exactly painful but uncomfortable.

Anyway, I would appreciate any help and advice.

Thanks in advance

 

[minky]

Hello,

I had a perm a few years ago and around 2 weeks after getting the perm my hair starting falling out (with the roots). My scalp was in a terrible condition with big flakes of skin coming off. I know about skin so I managed to at least sort that part out There was a patch about the size of a 2p where a whole lock of hair had come out. Everytime I brushed my hair the comb would be filled with hair. 2 years on my hair is much thinner than it was and the actual strands of hair are thinner and more brittle. If I tug my hair with the comb, more hair comes out than usual. Before the perm my hair never came out much at all and it feels like the hair is not strong in the root so I'm still suffereing from it.

I wondered if I could get some advice from a professional as to what could have happened. Other hairdressers just said things like, it's just breaking off but the root was coming out too. There is absolutely nothing else healthwise that could be causing it, I had a full blood test and the doctor checked everything such as thyroid etc so it's not that.

My hair was long midway down my back and reasonably thick. The hairdresser used big rods while doing the perm and applied perm lotion from small bottles then left it for what seemed like about an hour.

I remember it felt quite "nippy" on my head, not exactly painful but uncomfortable.

Anyway, I would appreciate any help and advice.

Thanks in advance

Hi Beth , Two years on and it is still coming out at the root
at the moment It sounds more like you may have very slight aolpecia areata
and as you know a number of things can be responsible for this,

Mmmm did the perm solution drench your scalp ? did the perm curlers feel over tight ?
did you go back to the salon ?
if so what did they say at the salon ?

I think if any damage happend to your hair roots when you had the perm,
the roots would well have recovered by now ,

have you ever in your life suffered from hair loss or Lupus ? or any sort psriosis ? albicans ? ect

You may be far better using a brush on your hair than a comb which can as you say " tug at the hair "
gently brush it starting from the ends then gently work your way upwards

 

[jrobinson]

an HOUR?!!!!?!!! a perm lotion should be left on 20min at the most!
although 2 years on i dont think the cause of your hairloss can be the perm, the lotion would only affect the hair you had at that time. Unless you had some sort of allergy to the lotion, which would explain the bad skin, but again im not sure 2 years on this would still be affecting.......

 

[minky]

Hi, yes I agree an hour for the actual perm lotion to take is way too long ,

do you mean the both bottles together took an hour ?
eg.... half an hour for the perming lotion to take ?
then the other half hour spent rinsing and neutralizing ?

also another important factor would be to ask you
"did the stylist wind the perm rods in with water first then apply the solution afterwards (from the little bottles) over the rods?
or did she apply the perm solution (from the little bottles) as she went along whilst winding the perm rods " ?

 

[beth25]

Thankyou for your replies, I really appreciate it.

The hairdresser, I think used a little piece of damp paper when putting up the rods. Then she squirted liquid from a bottle onto the rods, and yes it did kind of get on my scalp, I think that was why it was stinging. It was left for much longer than 20 mins then the curlers were taken out and my hair was rinsed.

(The girl rinsing my hair must have got rid of the lock of hair that had come out and never mentioned at the time) I remember a few days later, feeling the place on my head where the hair had come out but because it had grown a little bit it felt a bit fuzzy and I thought I was imagining it until I actually looked a week later! but Because my hair was quite thick I didn't notice it at the hairdressers and it was kind of at the lower part of the back of my head.

I did suffer hairloss once before the perm when my scalp had very bad eczema but I managed to treat it. It wasn't the kind of hairloss like alopecia it was just because the scalp was in such a mess.

I do have allergies but apart from the stinging on the day of the perm my scalp felt fine until about a week or so later when my scalp became very flaky and I noticed the hairloss. It was a bit strange that it took a week to happen.

I went back to the salon and the hairdresser kind of dismissed it because my hair didn't have bald patches (it just seemed to be coming out quite evenly all over) however, she did put treatment on it and I came back the next week and received more treatment. She seemed to be treating the hair but it was the scalp/root that seemed to be the problem.

I don't know if this is an important factor, but after the curlers had been removed and my hair combed through, another hairdresser blowdried it and at one point she was quite near the scalp and it definitely felt a bit hot. After the stinging of the perm lotion then the heat of the hairdrier, I'm not sure if that made it worse.

I can't understand why my hair comes out more easily now. That is good to know that roots can regenerate, I didn't know that, so maybe a significant amount of my scalp healed up but some parts not. At the front of my head at the fringe area, the hair is noticeably thinner and at the top (crown) of my head it is also thinner.

Finally (sorry this is such an epic post:zzz I think, my hair does actually grow but it is not very strong in the root, is that possible?

Kind regards

 

[minky]

Hi Beth , I always like to water wind the hair first then put on the perm solution ,
this is the usual way,

it doesnt sound like she did too much wrong
except it was on for a longer amount of time than it possibly should have been
and it also went on your scalp

Did you inform the stylist or anyone that it was stinging you ?

the perm lotion should not touch the scalp ,
but sometimes it may accidentally run onto it , this should be mopped off the scalp straight away with cotton wool dipped in water,

I always ask clients to let me know instantly if they feel any stinging at all,

any stinging should be reported to the sylist straight away,

do you know what make of perm it was ?
as you could have asked the perm manufactures to investigate the complaint for you,

they may have checked out that the manufactures instructions were followed correctly

if you had suffered hair loss due to the lotion penetrating the hair follicles
I think you would have suffered severe red burn marks and quite bad scabbing of the scalp, not just white flakes

you say that you have had hair loss in the past , so it is not clear or certain that the perm solution caused it all
therefore the whole thing starts to become muddled
plus its a pretty long time ago now

unless you can provide evidence that the perm lotion caused the hair loss
or the salon was neglectful and never followed the manufactures instructions properly
then you may not have a case against the salon ,

What have the salon done free of charge for you ?
did they actually accept resonsibility for the hair loss ?

did you go to a trichologist ?
perhaps he may still be able to help with some answers (pricey though)

sometimes people can react to the neutraliser if the curlers are wound too tight, or protection sticks have been put in to stop the rubber marks
and have and not been loosened thus causing tension spots ,
or the client can have very open sensitive roots and scalps , just like some of us have open facial pores

the nuetraliser can then seep down the pulled tension spots in the root area
and irritate these follicles
but this would have cleared up with a simple hydrocortisone cream from your doctor,
but it still shouldnt have caused any actual hair loss

swimming in pools , the chlorine can cause scalp and hair problems
also if there have been any metallic salts used eg... in a coloured mousse or coloured hairsprays
anything like that can make a reaction possible,

I can only guess, as I really dont know what happened to your hair,

I think, my hair does actually grow but it is not very strong in the root, is that possible?

I know of quite a few people that have very fragile roots and the hair can come out real easy even if it is only gently tugged at ,

I find Omega 3 oils and can help a lot with this

just another couple of questions the hair that comes out does it have a white dry root bulb on the end of it ?
also how long are the actual hairs that are coming out ?

What happened to you really sucks
I do hope it all grows back nice and strong for you :hug:

 

[beth25]

Thankyou so much Minky,

You have been really helpful. I am unfortunately one of these people who dosn't like to complain too much. When the perm lotion was stinging, I thought that was normal although I did say it felt uncomfortable and the hairdresser just sort of ignored it (by the way it was an expensive salon). The lotion definitely went all over my scalp. The hairdresser liberally squirted it everywhere and because it was watery liquid it seeped all over the scalp. I am sure now that this is most probably what caused the damage along with the extended time the solution was left on for.

When I had a hair fall in the past due to scalp problems, this was quite a long time before the perm incident, however like your say the fact that i have sensitive skin on my scalp could have added to it.

To be honest I didn't even think that I could bring a case against the salon because I went to a trichologist (you are right they are pricy) and she said my scalp hadn't been burned. But clearly something was wrong.

Yes I was going to ask about the roots coming out. When my hair comes out, even the hairs that are due to fall out have little white dry bulbs, is this normal? Should there be nothing on the end of the hair?

The thing is, more hairs grow back in it's place but they just seem a bit more brittle than before and the over all hair definitely less volume.

I was absolutely inconsolable as my hair was my "thing" and it took me a long time to accept it but I think now I just want to know what actually happened, so thanks again for your insight. It is more than I got from many hairdressers a doctor and trichologist who all actually saw my hair!

Kind regards

 

[minky]

Hi Beth , I think your hair is ok and it is going through the proper stages of growth
as it is falling out only at the telogen stage ,
which is why it has a little dry white bulb on it

the longer these hairs the better ,

if they have dry white bulbs on and there are lots and lots of shorter hairs
then
this could mean the hair is falling out a bit prematurely
( I have experienced this )

the usual causes of this could be vitamin or mineral defficiancy
(my hair loss was caused by anaemia ) it was quite severe
and as soon as I was treated with medicine by my doctor
all my terrible headaches went away and my hair actually
stayed in and grew longer and thicker,

please anyone reading this do not self medicate,
because overload can be very dangerous if medicine is taken and it is not needed,

most women who are having regular monthly cycles can become anaemic
you may need to go back to your doctor for tests again if it is still happening ,


Also here is a bit of information that may help you
it is written by Jeni Giles for this site
she is a College Tutor

There are 3 basic stages hair grows through. The anagen stage, active growing -depending on the source, can last between 2 and 10 years with a rate of 1/4 to 1/2 inch per month- this is the stage most of us notice and are concerned with.

The Catagen stage, root sheath begins to loosen, hair is being readied to shed, another hair is beginning to form deep below the skin to help push the Anagen hair out.

Telogen Stage- resting. The root sheath that holds the hair into the follicle has completely loosened and is no longer attached. The hair is just waiting for the opportunity to fall out or be shed. A shower, brushing your hair or combing your fingers through may be enough to pull out this hair and make way for the new hair waiting to emerge.

Luckily for us, all three stages are happening simultaneously, but at different times. Approximately 80% of our hair is in the anagen stage, while the other 20% is either getting ready to shed or is being shed. Again depending on the source the average human should lose between 40-120 hairs per day. The average loss begins to increase with age and most people who are "mature" will lose between 80-150 hairs per day.

:hug:

 

[beth25]

Thanks again Minky.

I'm glad to hear you saying that

I think maybe my hair/scalp went through hell and is just taking a while to get back to normal. (I'm also glad to hear the white bulb at the end is normal.)

Yes, I hope others who read this and went/ are going through the same can have their minds put at rest and know that if there is a bit of damage to the roots etc, they can grow back again, I worried for months that I was going to lose all my hair because it was coming out so fast. I think maybe the worry made it come out more

The quote was helpful too, I know a little of the hair stages of growth but that put it into perspective for me. I think that maybe because I experienced the hair loss that I am hyper-vigilant about it now and forgetting that it is normal to lose some hair everyday.

Thanks Minky for taking the time to help me x