NVQ, please do something about short courses!

[Annemarie]

Ive just seen a professional acadamy advertising their Gel polish course for "anyone". So much for being mani trained. Its getting too slack. Ive lost 3 customers who had gelish as they know how to do it themselves now.

That and the fact my new suppliers didnt even check that i was qualified before selling me pro products at trade prices is really starting to grind my gears.

Theres enough people in this industry without untrained/unregisterd/just any people taking our customers.

Its just too loose these days i wonder how im going to survive this influx of people coming out of nowhere for an easy quid and doing beauty/nails.

Hairdressers now train in nails and lashes for like £50 minimum. That as well is affecting our custom.

What happend to the good old NVQ and further training if necessary? I wish the Nvq was still the way, back when there was no cheap/quick courses. The Nvq or whatever it is now needs to be updated to include the lot!! and be the qualification with recognition and qudos!

We are professionals not "people who paint nailz coz im dead good at doin me own"

TIME TO TIGHTEN IT UP !!!!!

I couldn't agree more

 

[Annemarie]

I couldn't agree more.

I get asked all the time "how can I get more clients", "how can I compete with the cheapsters down the road", "why aren't I making any money", "how come you're so successful"

I'll try to précis it.

It doesn't matter if you are the most qualified therapist on the planet;

if you are rubbish at what you do people will not return to you.
If you are inflexible about the hours you will work it is unlikely you will be full
If you think this business is all pink and fluffy you will see quite quickly that it isn't! It's a business like any other; pig farming or avionics

Why have I chosen those 2 as examples?

Pig farming

It's sh1tty, smelly work which requires long hours, pretty much very single day of the year. It has intransigent clients (pigs), who don't care that the farmer had planned to have Thursday afternoon off - that's the day they choose to break out of their pen, run rampage over the neighbouring A road, and one of them has decided to give birth to 12 piglets and squash several of them in the process.

Tenuous analogy? Um, not really!

Back crack and sac -sh1tty
Pedicures - smelly
Every day of the year - admin, finances, training, marketing, reading...
Intransigent clients - "I'd like to book an appointment on Thursday afternoon, for your most expensive facial, shellac fingers and toes, full leg wax, Brazilian, brow shape and lash tint. No, sorry I can't do any other time, I've managed to wangle the afternoon off". You gonna turn that lot down because you wanted to meet up with your mum for a coffee? (my mum has to make an appointment to see me, and no, I'm not joking)

Avionics

Cutting edge, ever changing, risky, scary. Nuff said.

Crap, I'm rubbish at the executive summary. Still, I'm damn good at the things that make my clients happy bunnies, so I can live with that particular failing!

Conclusion.

It's not just about the qualifications; that's just one piece of the jigsaw.

So true.

 

[souz]

I couldn't agree more.

I get asked all the time "how can I get more clients", "how can I compete with the cheapsters down the road", "why aren't I making any money", "how come you're so successful"

I'll try to précis it.

It doesn't matter if you are the most qualified therapist on the planet;

if you are rubbish at what you do people will not return to you.
If you are inflexible about the hours you will work it is unlikely you will be full
If you think this business is all pink and fluffy you will see quite quickly that it isn't! It's a business like any other; pig farming or avionics

Why have I chosen those 2 as examples?

Pig farming

It's sh1tty, smelly work which requires long hours, pretty much very single day of the year. It has intransigent clients (pigs), who don't care that the farmer had planned to have Thursday afternoon off - that's the day they choose to break out of their pen, run rampage over the neighbouring A road, and one of them has decided to give birth to 12 piglets and squash several of them in the process.

Tenuous analogy? Um, not really!

Back crack and sac -sh1tty
Pedicures - smelly
Every day of the year - admin, finances, training, marketing, reading...
Intransigent clients - "I'd like to book an appointment on Thursday afternoon, for your most expensive facial, shellac fingers and toes, full leg wax, Brazilian, brow shape and lash tint. No, sorry I can't do any other time, I've managed to wangle the afternoon off". You gonna turn that lot down because you wanted to meet up with your mum for a coffee? (my mum has to make an appointment to see me, and no, I'm not joking)

Avionics

Cutting edge, ever changing, risky, scary. Nuff said.

Crap, I'm rubbish at the executive summary. Still, I'm damn good at the things that make my clients happy bunnies, so I can live with that particular failing!

Conclusion.

It's not just about the qualifications; that's just one piece of the jigsaw.

couldnt have said it better!! well done Lynne xx

 

[tigi]

short courses arent to blame, I have had nvq girls in for jobs that were absolutely C**P, didnt know jack ****e about our industry....... so it works all ways round.

Have you ever been on a short course?

Instead lets look at it from another angle, the econmic climate is dragging our lives down. Certain people have less income now their hours have been slashed, their tax creidt halved, or have lost their jobs, so they go to cheaper places, sweat shop nail salons, groupon, sales etc etc are also responsible for pulling pricing down.

You need to make your business irresistable, a reason why they simply cant live without you. so sit down and figure what makes you the best and if you cant think of one, its time for you to make that happen.

stop pointing the finger at others, many are having to diverse to stay afloat, having to look at different ways to make the money.

Instead of targeting people that you thik are not worthy because they didnt go to college,,,,,,, why not target the unqualified ? the non tax payer , the messer? THE are the ones dragging our industry down..

tigi

 

[Rinn]

It still blows me away that people think they can become a Nail Tech in two days! Sadly, we continue to have people complain about the money they have lost and their time wasted, not to mention their self-confidence being eroded.

Please, if you are considering entering the Nail or Beauty Industry, do some homework and try to get recommendations from people who have become successful in their chosen field.

exactly
but unfortunately they often don't listen , you read it on here all the time.

 

[user 52471]

short courses arent to blame, I have had nvq girls in for jobs that were absolutely C**P, didnt know jack ****e about our industry

I did my NVQ3 last year and I agree, I was 21 at the time and knew I was serious about getting into the industry so I studied the theory, attended the evening course for NVQ2 to catch up as I had no prior experience and was one of the first finished. Some girls on my course didn't deserved to pass because they simply couldn't be bothered but my tutor did everything she could to cut corners and pass them when it's their responsibility to do the work not hers.

The funniest thing is some of these girls tried to blame myself and other girls for not doing NVQ2 first and slowing down the course, it's not our fault you slacked off!

So maybe NVQ need to do something about tutors passing students just because they like them

 

[Waxpert]

I'm a short courser & proud! I have trained with Kim Lawless, Andy Rouillard & at CND academy!

My clients think I'm the best waxer they've ever been too! I doubt I would be as good just doing a waxing module in an NVQ . My waxing training for most part was Andy & myself along with another student. I've also had 121 training with Justine Crick.

I'm sure I've annoyed my local beauty therapists as I'm taking their business but do you know what;

I'm bloody good at what I do. I use the best products I can - Perron Rigot & CND. I bend over backwards for my clients & work till 11pm at night & Sundays if I have too!

A girl that lives in the next street from me has ripped my website off & done some short courses, am i worried? NO!

I'm far too busy making a success of myself to worry about what she is doing!

We're not all bad! X

 

[jcpark]

short courses arent to blame, I have had nvq girls in for jobs that were absolutely C**P, didnt know jack ****e about our industry....... so it works all ways round.

Short courses are inadequte in certain areas (not saying it takes a year to learn spray tanning and I'm sure that applies to other skills too), however, if you have had NVQ girls that are no good, then that is a failure of their course and the school/college to not only fail to give them inadequate training, but to then pass them too.

The problem is that awarding bodies do not police the courses they accredit. Some don't even care and will accredit anything but even those who do have certain standards do not police them. VCTC are notorious for this. There are government requirements for the numbers of hours required to achieve a certain level of qualification and the beauty industry seems to ignore all this.

Some girls on my course didn't deserved to pass because they simply couldn't be bothered but my tutor did everything she could to cut corners and pass them when it's their responsibility to do the work not hers.

Exactly, why were they passed if they were not achieving the required standard? It makes a mockery of those good therapists. Ultimately it is the customers that suffer but it refects poorly on the industry. I've read a number of posts where people are, understandably, frustrated that the beauty industy is percieved as being for the unintelligent. Is it any wonder that that is the perception when it is easy to qualify even if you don't reach the required standard. We should hold our heads high and expect our repective industries to have high standards of training and delivery of service. Only then will it get the respect.

 

[tigi]

I think its down to the individual, and the effort and hard work they put in. short courses, written proprely, trained correctly and deliever appropriately in small classes are appropriate.

I can name so many on here who work their butts off to make it, too many to mention and I know many of them dont have an NVQ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It NOT about the piece of paper, its about the ambition, the heart , the passion and determination and the skill.

I dont have an NVQ in beauty, but I do have a salon and a training academy. I have worked my butt off to be successful.

Kerry, you are an example of what it can take, hard work and effort and commitment. sounds like you deserve your qualification. Keep going and you WILL succeed!

No one and i mean No one leaves my academy unless they are able to do what they have been properly and throughly trained in. They leave with a vast amount of knowledge, knowledge that i have worked damn hard to ensure they have. Just because someone doesnt have an NVQ does not make them inferior. its insulting to assume that a piece of paper makes someone superior.

Im not inferior to anyone because I chose not to follow the NVQ route. and I wont be judged for my choices ..... and Im not better than someone who has done an NVQ.

Some people chose private courses because and I quote from previous students at my academy:

1. I went to college and I couldnt take the bitchy environment
2. I need to provide for my family and I want to improve myself, I cant afford to go to college full time.
3. I have a learning need and cant cope in a formal learning enviroment
4. I was told at school I was stupid and cant face the thought of college
5. I need to expand on my existing skills that I learnt at college because college didnt teach me everything i need to get a job in a salon .
6. I need to refresh my skills
7. I need to expand my treatment list and the college doesnt offer it.
8. I didnt get into college.

So we are providing a service, we are no ones poor relation.... and any of you dont believe, sign up to one of my courses and be prepared, for some damn hard work and to learn things a diffferent way.

tigi

 

[Tomme]

I think its down to the individual, and the effort and hard work they put in. short courses, written proprely, trained correctly and deliever appropriately in small classes are appropriate.

I can name so many on here who work their butts off to make it, too many to mention and I know many of them dont have an NVQ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It NOT about the piece of paper, its about the ambition, the heart , the passion and determination and the skill.

I dont have an NVQ in beauty, but I do have a salon and a training academy. I have worked my butt off to be successful.

Kerry, you are an example of what it can take, hard work and effort and commitment. sounds like you deserve your qualification. Keep going and you WILL succeed!

No one and i mean No one leaves my academy unless they are able to do what they have been properly and throughly trained in. They leave with a vast amount of knowledge, knowledge that i have worked damn hard to ensure they have. Just because someone doesnt have an NVQ does not make them inferior. its insulting to assume that a piece of paper makes someone superior.

Im not inferior to anyone because I chose not to follow the NVQ route. and I wont be judged for my choices ..... and Im not better than someone who has done an NVQ.

Some people chose private courses because and I quote from previous students at my academy:

1. I went to college and I couldnt take the bitchy environment
2. I need to provide for my family and I want to improve myself, I cant afford to go to college full time.
3. I have a learning need and cant cope in a formal learning enviroment
4. I was told at school I was stupid and cant face the thought of college
5. I need to expand on my existing skills that I learnt at college because college didnt teach me everything i need to get a job in a salon .
6. I need to refresh my skills
7. I need to expand my treatment list and the college doesnt offer it.
8. I didnt get into college.

So we are providing a service, we are no ones poor relation.... and any of you dont believe, sign up to one of my courses and be prepared, for some damn hard work and to learn things a diffferent way.

tigi

Oooh were are you tigi?

I agree about some without nvq having greatness, there is a salon in north Wales (may be yours lol) that won salon of the year a few years back, neither of the owners had "formal" education, mainly taught themselves and now take on apprenticeships.
But there are many out there who take short courses, couldn't give a rats about quality, or insurance and they do mock the industry.

Myself being a hairdresser, if demand was high enough I'd do extensions, and it seems most are short courses of 2 days, I don't think it's enough for myself, it may be that I want to know why who when and where about everything and not just that's what you use, that's how you use it now show us.

It took me 6 months to do a makeup course, and I asked everything. All in the quest or knowledge, xoxo

 

[jcpark]

It NOT about the piece of paper, its about the ambition, the heart , the passion and determination and the skill.

I completely agree, however, if an industry is to be regulated (even voluntarily), then standards should be met. If they are not being met by the course providers, this reflects badly on the industry, is unfair to those who think they are getting trained to deliver a service to a professional standard, and the customers who think they are getting a professional treatment. What type of course or length of training is required to achieve that standard may well vary depending on the treatment, but it's pretty apparent to me that there are far too many cheap ways to become 'qualified' and colleges providing substandard courses.

short courses, written proprely, trained correctly and deliever appropriately in small classes are appropriate.

Not if they fail to meet the minimum National Occupational Standards, and a 2 day massage course does not meet those standards.

Have you ever been on a short course?

Over the years I've been on a number delivered by a number of different training establishments. Albeit in massage, but they have been inadequate.

 

[persianista]

I think it boils down to what you want to be.

If you are happy to be a waxer, and do nothing else but waxing, then a waxing course is fine.

If you then decide to do facials or body therapies, then you need a full course.

If you do a 2 day massage course, you have no comprehension of how much you DONT know, so you can be as "passionate" as you like and you still won't know jack sh!t about the subject in 2 days.

Likewise a 6 month fast track hairdressing course will get you insurable, but you won't be like us "proper" hairdressers, and you have no comprehension of how little you can actually do. Passion and enthusiasm is no substitute for knowledge, skill and practice, and maybe, just maybe the course providers who are taking your money are telling you lies.

Short courses are useful for trained therapists to update or polish their skills, but they are not a substitute for full training.

Those "therapists" who lazed their way through college and scraped an nvq due to the tutor passing them off for having a pulse, will get found out at trade test. Give them a wave when you walk past the job centre.

In this climate, salon owners are picking the cream. For the first time in my memory we are getting tons of good applicants for jobs. The days when a salon is grateful to have you, when you could dictate your hours and salary, are gone.
Concentrate on being the best, because if you aint, it dont matter what certs you have, you will struggle.

 

[jcpark]

If you do a 2 day massage course, you have no comprehension of how much you DONT know, so you can be as "passionate" as you like and you still won't know jack sh!t about the subject in 2 days

Well, as this is my area, I will say I couldn't have put it better :lol:
The frustration is that not only does it reflect poorly on the industry, it short changes those who go on these courses thinking they will achieve a professional standard and it short changes their clients who may well know no better either.

 

[user 52471]

Kerry, you are an example of what it can take, hard work and effort and commitment. sounds like you deserve your qualification. Keep going and you WILL succeed!

Thank you very much
I know the reason I did a NVQ is because I didn't know of any other options available. And like you say, it's down to the individual whether they do a short course or NVQ, a certificate is worthless if you don't put in the effort

 

[Alpenrose]

Let me put my tuppence in.

I went both routes - NVQ and shortcourses and had various experiences.


My both NVQs, in different colleges, were terrible (nVQ2 in Nail Technology and NVQ2 in Beauty Therapy) - in both cases there were students who hardly attended yet still were allowed to sit exams and gues what?... They passed! Overall teaching standards were poor - no matter what you do, you are always 'excellent'. No fair feedback or constructive critisims whatsoever. So I left mega confindent in my skills. And then reality hit me really badly during the trade test - to an extent that I was unable to get the job even in a substandard place (at thetimes I was not aware what nss are).


So, I decided to retrain privately. I had good and bad experiences, but mainly good.


My NVQ3 in Nails I have obtained purely because I needed this paper to get the job I wanted. So, I looked into curriculum, found out that I already know what is required and then found an assessment centre local to my place.


Sat all exams and passed from the first attempt, with minimal revision of theory. Most of my level 3 skills were gained through short courses and loads of practice.


In my opinion, NVQ does not guarantee certain teaching standards, and certail skill level as a result. It is all about passing everyone whoever is enrolled to get funding.


Yes, there are plenty on short course providers who will take your money and run away, but there are a lot with excellent reputation and high standards too. Research is the key.

 

[tigi]

Not if they fail to meet the minimum National Occupational Standards, and a 2 day massage course does not meet those standards.



thats such a sweeping statement isnt it, to say a 2 day course does not meet standards, its impossible to back that statement up , some will and some wont. ALL my courses are written to NVQ level 2 or 3 depending on what it is, some private organisations AND colleges barely manage to drag their students throught the minimum standards and others do. And if I am honest with you,

I agree completely with you that all sides of our industry should be licenced. mobile therapists, salons academies and colleges but sadly i dont think i will see that in my lifetime.

My standards are excellent, the best I feel, its like saying all volvo drivers are poor drivers.... its simply not always the case.

NVQS and private training should co exist , work together, not decide that one is a poor relation. Some companies are going to be better than others and frankly so are some colleges. If you recieve rubbish training anywhere, complain to them.

as persianista says proof is in the pudding , the best therapist will win, regardless of where she trained. out of the 5 therapists i have had in 2 years, ONE was nvq qualified and she needed so much support to get her up to speed and salon ready.

maybe thats the problem, maybe some colleges are just simply not making them salon ready?

 

[The Free Edge]

Ive just seen a professional acadamy advertising their Gel polish course for "anyone". So much for being mani trained. Its getting too slack. Ive lost 3 customers who had gelish as they know how to do it themselves now.

That and the fact my new suppliers didnt even check that i was qualified before selling me pro products at trade prices is really starting to grind my gears.

Theres enough people in this industry without untrained/unregisterd/just any people taking our customers.

Its just too loose these days i wonder how im going to survive this influx of people coming out of nowhere for an easy quid and doing beauty/nails.

Hairdressers now train in nails and lashes for like £50 minimum. That as well is affecting our custom.

What happend to the good old NVQ and further training if necessary? I wish the Nvq was still the way, back when there was no cheap/quick courses. The Nvq or whatever it is now needs to be updated to include the lot!! and be the qualification with recognition and qudos!

We are professionals not "people who paint nailz coz im dead good at doin me own"

TIME TO TIGHTEN IT UP !!!!!

I completely agree with you in regards to suppliers just selling product to anyone without checking qualifications etc, things look easy and sometimes they are but we all know what can go wrong when things aren't done correctly!

Those problems can then put potential customers off our services for life with just one bad experience from one of the wanna be's. As far as NVQ and shorter courses such as accredited diploma's go I'm afraid I don't support NVQ based learning much especially in colleges. An average class consists of around 23-30 students to one assessor. In my opinion it's takes so long to learn the skills due to the lack of time the assessor could spend with each one, guiding them giving advice and correcting them when they are doing things wrong or unsafe.

I have a good friend who has a salon and she has employed both college based students and shorter diploma course people and I must say the success rate in their work first off favoured the short courses. I myself did a short course purely for the fact I loved the fact that there was a maximum of 5 of us in the course at any given intake. My tutor spent so much time with me and the other four in the group. She could see what we were all doing 100% of the time.

I know this can't be said for all people as there are some great technicians that did long NVQ college based course's but doing these does not particularly mean that they are the way forward in ensuring good practice etc.

I feel there should be some legislation in terms of the suppliers. I know for one I wouldn't hesitate in reporting a supplier if they didn't check me out prior to supplying me with goods if there was such rules on this.

I hope this makes sense, I did in my head lol. Like I said this is just my opinion having studied in both environments and this is what suited me. Also the academy's should also have set regulations on how they can offer course's, to whome and with what previous qualifications xxx

 

[jcpark]

thats such a sweeping statement isnt it, to say a 2 day course does not meet standards, its impossible to back that statement up , some will and some wont.

Not at all - it is fact. The minimum National Occupational Standard for massage is 80 hours of in class tuition, in addition to theoretical knowledge and case studies. Even if you worked continuously over 2 days, the maximum number of hours would be 48. I make no comment on the quality of the training provided - it may be excellent, but 2 days is insufficient time to cover all the areas required to become a massage therapist.

I can't really comment on NVQs except to say that the massage side does NOT meet NOS for massage therapy and as far as I'm aware, is not accepted as meeting the required training for CHNC membership who are the govt. appointed regulators of massage therapy in the UK. In fairness, I don't know of any beauty therapy massage training that does meet minimum national standards, but that is another subject.

 

[tigi]

I get what you are saying now, ok so some courses ( mine definately requires that the students performs practise at home/ in their own time). 25 massages to be exact, and a case study on each and every one.

also, my course is 5 day one to one , 7 hours a day. so in effect my particular course insists on higher standards than others,. AND , how many colleges give one to one tuition? not many but I do and I feel that has a huge value, to be coached by a qualfied tutor for all that time is invaluable... 80 hours divided up amongst 25 students isnt that long for the tutor to spend with each student.

what im trying to say, that its difficult to judge or compare , its impossible to make them like for like. you cant compare mine to a college, but its done differently, not better , just differently and that is why I feel its unfair to say mine has less value.

I hope I have explained myself better, but now I think I understand more where you are coming from, I hope I have .

 

[Miss Sylk]

Exactly, why were they passed if they were not achieving the required standard? It makes a mockery of those good therapists. Ultimately it is the customers that suffer but it refects poorly on the industry. I've read a number of posts where people are, understandably, frustrated that the beauty industy is percieved as being for the unintelligent. Is it any wonder that that is the perception when it is easy to qualify even if you don't reach the required standard. We should hold our heads high and expect our repective industries to have high standards of training and delivery of service. Only then will it get the respect.

Exactly myu point! ive seen people pass on short courses when they are clueless, then they are let out STRAIGHT away after 1 day course let loose on the public, making a mockery and a mess of whatever part of our potential clients body parts.

People have gone off on a tangent on this thread.

the title was changed as well by admin.

Bascially all im calling for is TIGHTER exams, Longer lessons, case studies etc etc, so at least one Treatment eg: Manicure is not just 6 hours long but a few more days leading into weeks with home case studies on friends THEN be awarded a certificate, not just given one after 6 hours of being told stuff and attempting a small part of it once. Seriously that is messed up and its getting worse. Where as the good old NVQ has and still does have better standard of a pass.

You will get on NVQs a few people who just arnt cut out for it even after months of practice on one module but at least they got a good chance, but the majority will be good and ready to start on clients straight away at a good level of competence, that isnt the same for the majority on short courses. And you will get the intelligent experienced ones on short courses who dont have any problem at passing and learning well, lucky them.

I have a good all round experience with my NVQ so that made me ready for short courses after the NVQ if i required them. I got the A&P too that you just dont get on a short course.

I had 2 certificates given to me on short courses, i didnt feel i earned them but yes i do learn fast and i was good (probs due to experience and learnability).

So anyway, back to a point i made at first - Gel courses for anyone at local beauty acadamy and local suppliers???? naughty naughty!!!!