That word, BULLY

[persianista]

Does anyone else think the whole 'gotta make everyone feel good regardless of how nonsensical their post is', is rather patronising?

While I understand what dandelionpoppy was trying to do, I read that as patronising and rather belittling.

This is a pro forum no?

 

[nicole333]

I think that you can pick up exactly what someone wants to get across with the words they choose. I remember when I first started using Geek regularly I would read posts and swear I could see people literally spitting feathers whilst typing their posts!

Like Dande, I like straight talking. The sandwhich is also a basic when you do any kind of teaching and my students respond well to this (in my other job) I don't think I would be helping to bring out the best in them if they were so scared of making a move to push themselves if they thought I would bark at them.

Just my opinion.

 

[persianista]

Is this a site for professionals, or a site for students? I'm not an unpaid tutor! Students have teachers to ask questions surely?

 

[NiCshairstudio]

Is this a site for professionals, or a site for students? I'm not an unpaid tutor! Students have teachers to ask questions surely?

If your not an unpaid tutor simply don't comment on the students posts then... Surely?

This is a sight for all levels to ask for guidance, a second opinion, help, and reassurance, show of our work and generally come together as a community of like minded but different individuals, that's how I see it anyway.

Someone mentioned a student forum though and I do think this is a good idea where us experienced members can still access and help out with some questions xx

 

[pinky lou]

If I wrote a post saying "I'm thinking of using X colour for X reason" and somebody knew it was wrong it would be more helpful to be told "no X won't work you need an X tone"

Straight to the point, easy to understand. So much better then a false praise, then info, then false praise. To be honest the sandwich is false praise because you're only praising someone because you're classed as a bully if you don't.

 

[pinky lou]

Also isn't the saying "credit where it's due" not "credit to stop me sounding bad"

 

[NiCshairstudio]

Also isn't the saying "credit where it's due" not "credit to stop me sounding bad"

No ones saying make something nice up for the sake of it, and i disagree with someone trying to find a positive if there isn't one, but wording is still very important. If you posted like stated above, and it wouldn't work someone would jump on and say no no don't use that you need to do this, but what people forget is the why it is wrong to begin with so the op learns nothing but how to avoid that little mishap but not a future one.

 

[happyfeet]

Forums are a lot like school, bunch of people all in one place, some you get on with, some you don't, different backgrounds, experiences and so on. The biggest difference between a forum and a school is in this forum we're adults and we have far greater understanding that when we communicate with each other it should be in a respectful manner even if we don't agree with them (difference of opinion) or we know that they are completely wrong (knowledge). There are ways to approach and 'talk' to people on a forum and sometimes not everyone gets it right.

Of course there are ways to respond to someone to tell them they are wrong without coming across as rude and abrupt or dare I say it, in some instances pretty condescending. I don't believe anyone wants the answer sugar coated, they've asked a question and they would like an answer because they want to learn. People do need it pointed out where they are going wrong, otherwise what is the point in asking a question if you can't accept the answer. We aren't all teachers or trainers, but as with all things in life, there are ways to get people to understand and a bit a kindness in that response goes a long way. And by kindness I mean don't make them look like a fool.

There are always those posts that make you roll your eyes, wonder where the hell they did their training, completely shock you and so on. How we respond to those posts, if we do at all, could be the difference between helping them as a professional or have them continue to butcher someones nails/skin/hair.

I am a lover of a sh#t sandwich myself I find it's much more productive than constantly being negative.

As for bullying, well I think that's already been covered, it doesn't need 4 or 5 people to say the same thing. And if you are going to tell someone they are wrong then follow it up by telling them how to rectify it, whether that means explaining how to do it right, sending them back to their trainer, going back to their books, looking at threads on here, explaining that the basics need to achieved before they attempt the technical side of things or suggesting further training is required. This forum isn't just about answering questions, it's about supporting each other and helping each other become better industry professionals.

 

[mini4mum]

Here! Here!!

 

[jacquelineanna]

If you know how to use the English language effectively you would know how to say a hair cut or a set of nails are rubbish without actually saying the word rubbish.

And if people don't have the time to answer properly they should wait until they have.

It's ok to post a blunt response but it would be better for everyone else to read a blunt post if it is measured and educational.

Anything else is just not classy and perhaps exposes 'a little something' that is lacking in this type of poster.

And for those who want to speak to others in the manner under discussion ... if it was face to face, the person on the end of a tasteless blunt response would be able to avoid this kind of person after giving them a piece of their mind.

So those who speak in this way would end up with people just like themselves as friends .... and everyone would be happy.

May I say that this post is not directed at anyone who is partaking in this thread .. it is my opinion on the subject.

 

[pinky lou]

There are always those posts that make you roll your eyes, wonder where the hell they did their training, completely shock you and so on. How we respond to those posts, if we do at all, could be the difference between helping them as a professional or have them And if you are going to tell someone they are wrong then follow it up by telling them how to rectify it, whether that means explaining how to do it right, sending them back to their trainer, going back to their books, looking at threads on here, explaining that the basics need to achieved before they attempt the technical side of things or suggesting further training is required. This forum isn't just about answering questions, it's about supporting each other and helping each other become better industry professionals.

That's the thing in hairdressing its chemicals they want help with. Most recently by new geeks with no previous posts for us to see if they understand colour or not. Anyone can tick a box that says hair pro. Are we just meant to tell people like this what colours to put on there hair even if it can potentially cause damage to their hair/scalp. (Especially when we're not given the correct state of the hair in the first place)

When someone is told to ask their trainer then they are apparently wrong for doing so

 

[persianista]

That's the thing in hairdressing its chemicals they want help with. Most recently by new geeks with no previous posts for us to see if they understand colour or not. Anyone can tick a box that says hair pro. Are we just meant to tell people like this what colours to put on there hair even if it can potentially cause damage to their hair/scalp. (Especially when we're not given the correct state of the hair in the first place)

When someone is told to ask their trainer then they are apparently wrong for doing so

Hear hear.

I suppose if we turn this round, it's extremely bad manners to post a question on here that you couldn't walk into a salon and ask a hairdresser in real life.

It's also poor manners to demand a technical answer when the question is not phrased in a technical manner. For instance, if a poster says ginger, we ain't gonna say "oh yes, use a blue ash, level 6 upwards." Because they wouldn't have a clue what the differences are in the three ash tones.

I really don't think non hair pros understand the myriad complexity of what we actually do.

 

[happyfeet]

That's the thing in hairdressing its chemicals they want help with. Most recently by new geeks with no previous posts for us to see if they understand colour or not. Anyone can tick a box that says hair pro. Are we just meant to tell people like this what colours to put on there hair even if it can potentially cause damage to their hair/scalp. (Especially when we're not given the correct state of the hair in the first place)

When someone is told to ask their trainer then they are apparently wrong for doing so

No of course not, I think you may have missed the point of my post :sad: It's all about the way things are said. I don't see there being any problem in telling someone to go back to their trainer. But I believe if we tell them to go back to their trainer, we should be explaining why they need to go back.

You're right, anyone can say they are hair/nail/skin pro, but as professionals we surely can weed them out quite quickly. It is pretty obvious in some cases. xx

 

[classixuk]

Crikey, I was going to wade in with my 2 cents on this but all this talk of sandwiches has made me starving! What is this? A cookery forum? Lol

I'm off to grab a bite to eat before my stomach literally pops out of my mouth and devours my left arm thus making me incapable of any future contributions.

Hugs xxx

 

[nicole333]

I think the sandwiches may have been taken out of context! It's not about telling somebody they are right when obviously they are wrong as that would be patronizing. It's about balancing your response to encourage expanding someones knowledge.

I can't think of any reason why somebody wouldn't want to be told they are wrong when they are asking for advice. But what is not very nice to read, is when responses are belittling and the the words used are to make someone feel small.

 

[xsammi82x]

This is exactly why a lot of people stay away from SG.

I agree with the point of, if you don't have the time to answer then you should wait until you do.

Manners do not cost you anything and neither does being civil.

If you are losing patience with answering the same question, don't answer it. By posting things like "your wrong!" Or "are you even qualified?!" Is not constructive at all

 

[lydia c]

This is exactly why a lot of people stay away from SG.

I agree with the point of, if you don't have the time to answer then you should wait until you do.

Manners do not cost you anything and neither does being civil.

If you are losing patience with answering the same question, don't answer it. By posting things like "your wrong!" Or "are you even qualified?!" Is not constructive at all

100% agree with this ! Xxx

 

[classixuk]

How about we are all just allowed to have our own personalities and if someone doesn't like the way other people type they just use the 'ignore button' so they don't see any more of that posters posts?

I don't think it's helpful to ask someone not only to give free advice, but to make sure they word it in a way which isn't natural to them. Some people are blunt. Some people are motherly. Some people are bosses. Some people are offended at everything. It's called life. It would be dull if we all start talking in the same way like robots. Next there will be a posting template after hitting reply, "We noticed you only said one positive thing before mentioning something that wasn't right. Are you sure you want to post, or would you like to add something else positively encouraging (highly recommended)?"

Lol

 

[Tomme]

I'd say this is where I think it's time to call an end to the back and forth and say we each have our own method, some like to be nicey nice, I prefer to be direct, both work equally well in some instances.
I do believe that the skin and nail geeks won't understand the complexity of colouring as its not like applying nail polish that just covers and will turn out the correct colour every time regardless of experience or the skin geeks who's tan and makeup will come out the same on each person.
When it comes to hair there are tones that we have to work with, and their is a line of right and wrong. Colours are precise, with no blurred lines. This works and only this works is actually correct. X

 

[Penners]

This is exactly why a lot of people stay away from SG.

I agree with the point of, if you don't have the time to answer then you should wait until you do.

Manners do not cost you anything and neither does being civil.

If you are losing patience with answering the same question, don't answer it. By posting things like "your wrong!" Or "are you even qualified?!" Is not constructive at all

Hi, just to say sometimes within hair geek particularly students or others have Been offered WRONG DANGEROUS advice and sometimes the busy very knowledgeable geeks have given short sharp answers to avoid potential catastrophe and or serious personal damage, you only need to look at that poor geeks thread who had a bleach burnt scalp to see how serious it could be. I prefer to be polite but sometimes when good advice is offered and other geeks jump in with the whole 'don't be mean' nonsense it winds me up too!