That word, BULLY

[Tomme]

The word bully has been used regularly on here lately, sometimes because someone won't give information to someone who isn't qualified, sometimes because someone's advice is different to theirs, and other times its because someone is told they are wrong.

I think it's high time the word bully is put to bed by all on here. My posts are sometimes taken as rude, I send them in good spirits but tend not to sugar coat things, it's the way I am and the way I respond. I also like when people are honest enough to say "your wrong".

So please everyone, stop claiming bully at every chance and remember that there are people such as myself who prefer to give precise, matter of fact, uncomplicated and straight answers. If I'm to be called a bully then so be it, but my style and others styles are not to make things seem nicer because people are a bit too sensitive. Toughen up and realise life isn't a lovely flowers and ice cream sundae world.

X

 

[pinky lou]

Completely agree.

Anyone training/qualified should be able to give more precise details, base shade, tones etc. it's very easy on here to read past posts and think oh x cancels x I'll try that. Then when it doesn't work write a post saying I tried xyz without a reason why, then don't respond when asked for more info yet anyone not willing to give advice is a bully.

 

[gillian w]

I get fed up with people using the words i like to say it like it is,I don't sugar coat things,i dont like to mince my words,what you see is what you get etc etc etc when actually they really are just bloody rude.

 

[Tomme]

I get fed up with people using the words i like to say it like it is,I don't sugar coat things,i dont like to mince my words,what you see is what you get etc etc etc when actually they really are just bloody rude.

Some see it as rude, others see it as simple to read.

Would someone prefer a "that's a gorgeous cut, but the length should be a little straighter and the layering would be nice higher up", it comes across as confusing, the cut is completely wrong yet your saying its nice? Much easier to say "it's wrong, you should have made sure the length was sharp and straight and the layers taken much higher to get the style", the person knows that it was wrong and what should have been done without any confusion. X

 

[Rhiannon1408]

Totally agree, there's no 'tone' in a written word and I've seen people read tone into posts that wasn't there in the first place.

I for one would much prefer precise factual advice on technical matters, as I know that person is giving advice for a reason...because they want to help!

 

[gillian w]

Some see it as rude, others see it as simple to read.

Would someone prefer a "that's a gorgeous cut, but the length should be a little straighter and the layering would be nice higher up", it comes across as confusing, the cut is completely wrong yet your saying its nice? Much easier to say "it's wrong, you should have made sure the length was sharp and straight and the layers taken much higher to get the style", the person knows that it was wrong and what should have been done without any confusion. X

I think you would immediately get someone's back up with Its wrong! as the first words its not at all encouraging and I think someone will immediately dismiss the rest of what you have to say.Or go on the defensive.
How about, it would be better if you had etc etc etc. they listen and you don't get in any arguments.

 

[izzidoll]

Any Educator knows that it is best to sandwich any negative comments between positive ones.

So Tomme would you say a post that just said....This is a terrible cut...... Is a good post ?

 

[persianista]

Possibly the area that confuses the geeks from other trades, is that with hair, in particular, colour, there is a definitive right and wrong PLUS when it's wrong, it's not a question of wiping it off and starting again. True hairdressing takes YEARS to learn, not days or months. It's a VAST subject. Maybe us hair geeks need a consensus that in answer to a dangerous hair stab-in-the-dark-have-a-go person, we should just sweetly say nothing, as there is nothing nice to say.

If a nail tech said take shellac off with a flamethrower, would you REALLY hesitate to say "you're wrong?"
What's advocated here is saying, "yes a flamethrower is an idea HUN, but have you thought about using a proprietary shellac remover? It's a tad gentler, if you don't mind me saying, Hun. Hugs xxx"

How about it fellow hair geeks, shall we?

 

[izzidoll]

Big difference between one person saying
NO...step away from the flamethrower, that is dangerous and potentially lethal to your client.
Than
NO are you an idiot!!!!
Followed by 10 other geeks chiming in with various other comments on the definition of an idiot

 

[classixuk]

Possibly the area that confuses the geeks from other trades, is that with hair, in particular, colour, there is a definitive right and wrong PLUS when it's wrong, it's not a question of wiping it off and starting again. True hairdressing takes YEARS to learn, not days or months. It's a VAST subject. Maybe us hair geeks need a consensus that in answer to a dangerous hair stab-in-the-dark-have-a-go person, we should just sweetly say nothing, as there is nothing nice to say.

If a nail tech said take shellac off with a flamethrower, would you REALLY hesitate to say "you're wrong?"
What's advocated here is saying, "yes a flamethrower is an idea HUN, but have you thought about using a proprietary shellac remover? It's a tad gentler, if you don't mind me saying, Hun. Hugs xxx"

How about it fellow hair geeks, shall we?

Oh my days Lol! That really did make me burst out laughing! And yes, that's exactly how I personally feel we are being told to act. That is soooo funny!

 

[Tomme]

I've trained staff in the past as visual merchandisers, sales assistants, supervisors etc... And not once have I used a sandwich. They get praise where praise is due, and told when things are wrong. Maybe it's just my style, but it works, if it did t I wouldn't have been able to take the worst store in a company and get it to the top 3 in 6 months.
I think the person thinks more about the why and how when told its wrong rather than thinking 2 out of 3 isn't bad. X

 

[Nearlyme]

I would rather be told straight then given conflicting opinions. Dont sugar the pill with me, just give it to me with both barrels lol

Sent from my GT-I9505 using SalonGeek

 

[gillian w]

I've trained staff in the past as visual merchandisers, sales assistants, supervisors etc... And not once have I used a sandwich. They get praise where praise is due, and told when things are wrong. Maybe it's just my style, but it works, if it did t I wouldn't have been able to take the worst store in a company and get it to the top 3 in 6 months.
I think the person thinks more about the why and how when told its wrong rather than thinking 2 out of 3 isn't bad. X

Maybe, but in person someone can hear what tone you are using and they can read your body language.They can get an understanding of who you are.That does not come across to new people on a forum.

 

[LAPirate]

Maybe, but in person someone can hear what tone you are using and they can read your body language.They can get an understanding of who you are.That does not come across to new people on a forum.

True! That is why people shouldn't read tone into posts! ;-/

 

[dandelionpoppy]

Different people respond to different methods.

I do believe in straight talking, and actually prefer it if I'm being given a hard message, as I find subtle hinting difficult to decipher.

However I do believe in the sandwich. It's invariably possible to find some positives to start and finish on, but the sandwich filling can then be very much to the point.

It can take courage to ask a question, either on here or "in real life".
It also completely possible to respond honestly with a little kindness thrown in. People listen better when they feel OK about themselves.

 

[persianista]

Ok, so it's:

"That's a lovely flamethrower you have Hun, however, you'll find proprietary shellac remover a teensy bit gentler, but well done for thinking outside of the box. Huggs"

That better?

 

[dandelionpoppy]

Ok, so it's:

"That's a lovely flamethrower you have Hun, however, you'll find proprietary shellac remover a teensy bit gentler, but well done for thinking outside of the box. Huggs"

That better?

I really enjoy your humour! However, I think it would be useful to consider the thread in a less extreme way. Your character certainly comes through though.

Hope you enjoyed the sandwich..

 

[mini4mum]

Its very difficult on a forum like this to read something on a screen and not take it personally. If sometimes a question is asked and one person says something 'from the hip' it then has another 20 geeks saying the same thing, it affects your confidence in your ability, and you do feel like your being gang-ed up on!! I was always taught to complain with a smile on your face, it works wonders (good old BA training!!)... you get more from people with sugar than you do with vinegar.

I think its great to have such amazing Guru's here, to ask questions to, but think back to when you first started and the 'silly' questions or mistakes you made, then before you press Submit Reply, re-read your comment. Not always are the 'Guru's' right and time & time again, posts are submitted and then re-edited, but an apology to that poor geek, who has dared to challenge is never apologised to.

If you watch Xfactor or The Voice, a negative comment is always followed by a positive (sandwich) and because this is written not spoken word, I think its even more important to follow this on a forum.
Just my opinion

 

[NiCshairstudio]

I don't think in hairdressing there is a definitive right and wrong way to colour which is why so many people jump on with their way of doing the same thing, which is good and I like it when we all put our heads together to find the correct and best possible solution for the person asking the question however so many of us think our way is the only right way meaning we get defensive when someone else contradicts us but if they came on and said, 'ok but what about this way?' It would be received much better than 'your wrong you should do this'. If they are heading in the completely wrong direction though yes a quick 'no please stop don't do that because xyz try this.....'

But jumping straight in saying god no step away I can't believe you are even saying this.... And in most cases its worded harsher than that... Will deter young brains in the industry from asking again sadly.

I do think straight talking has its place, don't really believe in sandwiches as such but if a cut is awful but the colour is good jumping straight on with 'OMG what did you do, did you actually think that was a good cut?' Is different to saying, 'credit where credits due, great colour, however what happened to the cut? What was she asking for and maybe we can explain where you went wrong? Where you happy with it?' Etc etc

I've always been miss understood for being mean, never a bully as sometimes I just came straight out with it, but over the years have learnt to soften that as like said you can't read personal behaviours and personalities in text.

I do think the word bully is thrown round a little too much, a bully is someone who constantly puts someone / people down regardless, always finding the negative never a positive and making said person feel inadequate etc, ive only seen evidence of bullying on here once that could be called bullying and its over now. We do seem to suddenly be too scared to give our advise and opt for the easy option of saying go to someone else.... Why comment?

 

[LAPirate]

As I had said before.... The people who thread starters most want the opinion from are often very busy stylists and salon owners.... Would you prefer a concise, no nonsense and correct answer or no answer at all as they don't have time to dress it up in an airy fairy way?