Would you want to know if a client had a bad experience?

[virtues2011]

Oh dear, the non hairdressers are upset!!! I'll bow out of this one, and I'd suggest all other hairdressers do the same, rather than fuel the fire...
Let every body else discuss it, and work themselves up. They clearly all read the daily mail and think every other client drops dead.
I've come across three in my entire career. One became allergic due to a 'henna' tattoo on holiday. Lovely 'natural' product that left a horrific scar on her leg. A touch of tint wrapped securely in a non-leaking foil is nothing. Calm yourselves down.

It's not personal Persianista, I find your comments to some posts rather contradictory if anything. You have nothing to prove to me and I certainly am not upset by it. I find your comments interesting but they do very quickly become rather childish.

It's not my business that provides a colour service to a client that has a reaction to it. I suppose if anything I thought it would be the other way around eh, what with being a 'non professional' and all that.... and I'm sure most of us know that there are very few clients that drop dead from a reaction. . but it does happen!

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[persianista]

As a non hair dresser but still in the beauty industry I'm interested to know the following

Does the fact that the client is allergic to the tint immediately invalidate the therapists insurance?
So what then happens in the event of a claim?

No, not if you have a documented skin test. Eyelash tints are somewhat different because you cannot keep them off the skin in the same way we can with hair.

As a hairdresser, even with a documented skin test, you can still get a huge reaction, which I've seen before. The client was referred to l'Oreal who took control of the case as there was a fully documented skin test in place.
Insurance will cover off scalp, for instance cap or foil lights. I checked.
Contrary to all the shrieking non hairdressers hijacking this thread, who think people die immediately, it takes a full application usually to get a reaction, and off scalp application is deemed acceptable. I'm never reckless.

Rather than turning it into a lets bash hairdressers thread, shouldn't it be kept on topic??

 

[Inkedgirl]

To be fair, you need to see it from "the non-hairdresser's" point of veiw. Many of us work in nails or skin and an allergy to something would be detromental to our client and business. If we know our client is allergic to something we would never take the chance of using it as the after effects can be horrendous!
So instead of ridiculing them for it, try and see it from their point of view. As a client myself i would be mortified if a hairdresser used a product on my hair they knew i was allergic too, but from what you are saying i can see it from your view on things too.

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[virtues2011]

In that case why wouldn't you test with another brand and use that if there is no reaction?

How can it take a full application to get a reaction when a skin test is 10p size and I have witnessed some bad reactions! It doesn't make sense.

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[persianista]

In that case why wouldn't you test with another brand and use that if there is no reaction?

How can it take a full application to get a reaction when a skin test is 10p size! It doesn't make sense.

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I rarely answer you directly, but I'll make the exception here.

The substance people are generally allergic to is called paraphenylene diamine. It's present in all tints. Changing brands won't help.

A skin test is an unreliable indicator of an allergic reaction. It's a small dot of tint. A tiny amount enters the bloodstream, and does....nothing.
When you then slap 60ml of the stuff onto their scalp, a vast amount in comparison enters the pores. If they are sensitive, histamine will rush to the area, hence the outward swelling of a reaction.
Sometimes people will only react to a global application, therefore off scalp is deemed perfectly safe.

I hope I've explained that fully.

 

[AmandaGallagher]

I rarely answer you directly, but I'll make the exception here.

The substance people are generally allergic to is called paraphenylene diamine. It's present in all tints. Changing brands won't help.

A skin test is an unreliable indicator of an allergic reaction. It's a small dot of tint. A tiny amount enters the bloodstream, and does....nothing.
When you then slap 60ml of the stuff onto their scalp, a vast amount in comparison enters the pores. If they are sensitive, histamine will rush to the area, hence the outward swelling of a reaction.
Sometimes people will only react to a global application, therefore off scalp is deemed perfectly safe.

I hope I've explained that fully.

I've found you're last couple of posts quite interesting and I can totally agree with you on the reaction part, I'm allergic to lemon & lime, if I only taste a drink with it or if something doesn't contain much real juice then I'm fine but if I was to drink a full glass or apply a cream or anything contains it then il be covered in a rash and sick within minutes! So I'd imagine if you don't have a very extreme allergy to something then it takes more than just a dot to set you off!


Amanda xx

 

[virtues2011]

I rarely answer you directly, but I'll make the exception here.

The substance people are generally allergic to is called paraphenylene diamine. It's present in all tints. Changing brands won't help.

A skin test is an unreliable indicator of an allergic reaction. It's a small dot of tint. A tiny amount enters the bloodstream, and does....nothing.
When you then slap 60ml of the stuff onto their scalp, a vast amount in comparison enters the pores. If they are sensitive, histamine will rush to the area, hence the outward swelling of a reaction.
Sometimes people will only react to a global application, therefore off scalp is deemed perfectly safe.

I hope I've explained that fully.

Thank you. I'm assuming there are different levels of reaction. Those that suffer a reaction immediately after a skin test will suffer huge consequences if a head of tint is applied and those that show no reaction to a skin test can still have a reaction when a full head is applied. So we are just reducing risk here, nothing more. I see. It is still prudent to skin test prior to tint with foils incase the stylist had an accident though . . again to reduce risk as clearly it cannot be prevented unless you refuse the service. I have seen clients react to L'oreal colour but not Wella when skin tested with both, again I can only believe is this down to different quantities of ingredients used in different brands although you say this doesn't happen.

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[persianista]

I will repeat. Paraphenylene diamine is the pigment present in all hair colours which cause allergic reaction. It is present in all tints, and almost all semi permanents.

Two things must happen if a reaction is to be provoked. Sufficient product must be applied, and in contact with the skin for a sufficient amount of time.
A dot on the skin for half an hour wouldn't generally do anything, however if you painted it all over your body, even a non allergic person would react.

The problem is that nobody knows how much is sufficient product, and sufficient contact, however, most reactions build slowly, and are not as spectacular as the daily mail portrays them. A decent hairdresser who is not 'ditzy' should be able to gauge what is safe, and what isn't.

 

[maisy]

I would mention it but at the next appointment !
Personally if a client phoned up especially to tell me about this problem I wouldn't risk colouring their hair again ever !
If she feels the same you could lose your hairdresser and find it difficult to find another willing to risk it .
We don't risk colouring any clients with known allergies anyway as our insurance wouldn't cover us as manufacturers instructions do not allow us to continue to colour a client with known ppd allergy .

 

[LaurenSparkles]

I didn't mean to start such a thread

I was after advice on if I should tell her, not the quality of service or allergies to ppd. I know I'm severely allergic and I trust my hairdresser with my life that's why I let her do my hair. Yes she made a mistake, beleive it or not she's a human! Yes I know it's a big mistake to make but still she did. It's me that wants my hair coloured and I do so in the knowledge that normally I'm 100% safe.

I'm not running to her insurance and I'm not screaming blue murder I just asked if I should tell her?!

 

[LolliDolli]

I didn't mean to start such a thread

I was after advice on if I should tell her, not the quality of service or allergies to ppd. I know I'm severely allergic and I trust my hairdresser with my life that's why I let her do my hair. Yes she made a mistake, beleive it or not she's a human! Yes I know it's a big mistake to make but still she did. It's me that wants my hair coloured and I do so in the knowledge that normally I'm 100% safe.

I'm not running to her insurance and I'm not screaming blue murder I just asked if I should tell her?!

Yes tell her. Maybe show her a picture. Just say your not having a go, you live her work, but you both really can't afford to let this mistake happen again. It's not worth it. She needs to know the consequences and that it can never happen again.


Laura xx

 

[AcidPerm]

I didn't mean to start such a thread

I was after advice on if I should tell her, not the quality of service or allergies to ppd. I know I'm severely allergic and I trust my hairdresser with my life that's why I let her do my hair. Yes she made a mistake, beleive it or not she's a human! Yes I know it's a big mistake to make but still she did. It's me that wants my hair coloured and I do so in the knowledge that normally I'm 100% safe.

I'm not running to her insurance and I'm not screaming blue murder I just asked if I should tell her?!

Personally, I think you're totally crackers, and that's being kind.

You know you are severely allergic and yet you're willing to allow someone to risk your life on a regular basis for the sake of vanity?

If someone reacted to a skin test, I wouldn't provide a colour service. They can have bleach highlights but no toners.

I think your hairdresser is either incredibly naive or plain reckless.

I have the utmost respect for Persianista and I know she's an incredibly talented and experienced hairdresser but this is one area where we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[hazeleyes]

Are you afraid to tell her for fear that she might not do your hair again?

 

[persianista]

So, if I phrase it differently, if you know a client is allergic, would you refuse to skin test her?
An off scalp colour has less contact than a skin test. Do we all agree that a skin test is unlikely to kill anyone?

 

[virtues2011]

So, if I phrase it differently, if you know a client is allergic, would you refuse to skin test her?
An off scalp colour has less contact than a skin test. Do we all agree that a skin test is unlikely to kill anyone?

I agree with you, a skin test will not kill you, not that I've heard of (unless someone knows different here). This procedure (in some cases) highlights a reaction, but like you said not in all cases as the area is so small. ... but my point is why have skin tests if you carry out the service anyway? Or maybe you don't do skin tests on foil colours ..I don't know. I am reading that as long as you are careful you could provide the service knowing the client reacts and pray to god you get it right. If a client tells you they react why would you skin test them. .. just to see if they were lying? Don't they usually get worse, not better.
I wouldn't risk it personally, but I accept everyone works differently regardless of whether it is within the realms of the insurance criteria or not.

The OP's post is an interesting one as this is the one time that is had gone wrong. .. but look at the outcome of the mistake. . It could've been worse. Is it worth it just for the sake of money and vanity. Maybe I have it all wrong.

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[LaurenSparkles]

I don't think I'm vain, I think I'm female.

I'm a beautician and 90% of my business is HD brows. I come in contact with tint numerous times on a daily basis. I never get it on my skin. Does this make me completely stupid? I have to disagree.

I'm not wanting to tell her incase she refuses to do my hair I thought maybe it would be polite to mention it, is that wrong?

I didn't want this to start a war of words...I reiterate again...I only asked if I should tell her and as a hairdresser would you want to know. Crikey lol x

 

[Cholo]

I will repeat. Paraphenylene diamine is the pigment present in all hair colours which cause allergic reaction. It is present in all tints, and almost all semi permanents.

PPD is one substance present that can cause an allergic reaction. It is not the only one.

Having had in excess of 100 substances tested on me to narrow it down, I have a letter from a Consultant Dermatologist stating that I suffered an allergic reaction caused by substances within a hair colour. I also have a solicitor who says that the hairdresser involved is liable.....

It really isn't worth taking risks

 

[virtues2011]

I don't think I'm vain, I think I'm female.

I'm a beautician and 90% of my business is HD brows. I come in contact with tint numerous times on a daily basis. I never get it on my skin. Does this make me completely stupid? I have to disagree.

I'm not wanting to tell her incase she refuses to do my hair I thought maybe it would be polite to mention it, is that wrong?

I didn't want this to start a war of words...I reiterate again...I only asked if I should tell her and as a hairdresser would you want to know. Crikey lol x

Lauren it is not a war. Please don't take offense to it. It's a very interesting subject and one that is clearly very divided even between professional hairdressers, and that's without the ones who are not qualified, like myself!

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[persianista]

There's always an option of cap highlights, which is effectively like a large condom for the head.

 

[babychops]

There's always an option of cap highlights, which is effectively like a large condom for the head.

This made me giggle! 😄 x