Advice on facial range to help reduce lines/plump up skin please

[nailzandbeauty]

Hi, Iv just qaulified in beauty so havnt got alot of experiance in this area, the thing is i have a friend who is always on about her skin constantly.
Her skin is lovely to be honest no breakouts/congestion etc but she is obsessed with lines.

Shes says her face is heading for the floor sort of of thing! and has a few lines around her eye/mouth area.
She looks after her skin everyday like she has done nearly all her life she is in her 30's now.
She is now on about getting botox to help reduce these lines as shes pretty desperate about it,is there anything i can help her with please?

Im still using the brand Strictly professional range that i bought whilst training at college so i was using the same product.
She is going to start and have some facials after christmas to treat herself so is there anything that i could do to help her, i think if she saw a change in her skin with me ie: looking healthier/fresh/toned/plumped up etc she would not go to the extreme of botox!
I dont mind changing my brand now i have finished college for a better product with good results!

Thanks for reading any advice/tips at all would be greatly appreciated.:hug:

 

[number1kitty]

Anything containing glycolic acids or vitamin a's etc. Danne Montague King & MD Formulations really work well especially if combined with Microdermabrasion.

Kate

 

[Martin Duffy]

To be honest it's difficult without seeing her skin to work out what the cause of the fine lines are, and so recommending a product/treatment is difficult. If they are dehydration lines then the emphasis should be on maintaining the integrity of the stratum corneum to reduce trans-epidermal water loss, thus microdermabrasion etc wouldn't be ideal as it would further impair her first line of defence. If the cause is reduction in fibroblast activity & subsequent collagen/elastin reduction then all sorts of things would help from certain topical products to treatments such as ultrasound, microdermabrasion, microcurrent & so forth. Besides these there are numerous other factors that could be at play, all of which require a different treatment response.

 

[nailzandbeauty]

Hi, she actually does drink alot of water through each day so thats a good thing so i know its not dehydration, she says shes had the lines from a younge age thats why she has always been paranoid.She does cleanse and moisturise her face daily but she feels like her skin is hanging down south as she puts it so was woundering if there was anything that could try and firm things up and maybe reduce the fine lines a little.Thers not alot of choice in the lower range of strictly pro to retail aswell so was now wanting a much better product with results and hopefully retail them aswell.I dont have any machines for micro ect as we didnt cover that in level 2 but hopefully in the future i will take it further.Its like she hasnt got alot of elasticity in her skin if this is the case would any products help with this? please

Thanks

 

[number1kitty]

Microdermabrasion does not dehydrate the skin!! It amazes me how little college teaches people about the skin and how it functions.

Microdermabrasion used correctly with decent skincare will give fantastic results that can be seen and that will last.

Skincare is often aimed at one solution. If a therapist sees wrinkles she often assumes its dry and dehydrated which is often not the case. Smothering the skin in over rich creams can in fact make the problem worse as the skin forgets to work for itself. After all the skins best moisture is made by itself.

Skin should first be removed of dead cells and dirt so any treatment creams works better and deeper. Microdermabrasion does this. It helps stimulate collagen and elastin cells that in turn prevent further ageing and reduce lines and wrinkles already present.

Wrinkles are also caused by excessive glucose in the skin cells which is commonly the reason behing cross linked wrinkles. Over use of sunbeds or sun worshipping destroys living cells and the collagen and elastin fibres basically become inactive.

Once you remove dead skin cells and dirt use a cream that repairs damage, a transdermal cream that sits under the voids in the skin and hydrates throughout the day as the skin needs it is far better that a cream that smothers the skin and stops it breathing.

Protect the skin with SPFS and eventually over the space of a year you will notice a major improvement in the skin.

Theres a lot more science behind it, but basically it takes more than a wonder cream to get rid of wrinkles.

Kate
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[Martin Duffy]

Microdermabrasion does not dehydrate the skin!! It amazes me how little college teaches people about the skin and how it functions.

I don't remember saying microdermabrasion dehydrates the skin, rather I said if the skin was dehydrated & there was associated trans-epidermal waterloss then I would be looking first at strengthening & maintaining the integrity of the stratum corneum rather than removing layers of it.

I disagree that the primary aim with excess keratinisation is necessarily continual exfoliation, rather the cause should first be addressed, which is often a lack of the free water needed for the enzymes to begin dissolution of the corneodesmosomes, resulting in impaired natural desquamation. I am of the opinion that before unthinkingly treating the symptom one must first address the reason why the condition exists in the first place. For that reason, before recommending anyone embark on a course of microdermabrasion I would first want to ensure that ensure that all back-up systems are functioning well & that a good anti-oxidant & skin repair treatment programme was in place. I strongly believe that just as there is no one cause for wrinkles there is no one answer.

 

[number1kitty]

And microdermabrasion does help thicken the skin in time as it basically causes mild injury and helps the skin to rebuild itself in the same way it does when you cut yourself.

Thus this gives extra protection to the dermal layers and builds up a protection to environmental factors.

I have been using Microdermabrasion machines for 6 years, and have seen amazing results with them. I too was unaware of their potential and dismissed its abilities due to lack of knowledge of the way skin works and the way microdermabrasion has an effect overall. Its not just a big fancy exfoliator.

I have studied the skin for years and trained in over 15 skin companies to teach myself everything I could on prevention and treatment of skin problems.

Before moisturising skin you must first remove the layers of dead cells to allow the product to penetrate. Only transdermal products really have an effect on skin conditions as the product works at the point of the problem and does not sit on the surface of the skin giving only remedial effect.

Decent moisturisers sit under the skin only providing water and nutrients as the skin requires and allowing the acid mantle to do the rest. This then helps stimulate the cells to renew creating in effect reverse osmosis.

You then rebuild the skin, this involves thickening it to help prevent damage from other factors and as it does this it in turn repairs itself and teaches the skin how to heal it self.

Acids and vitamins can often hold ten times their own weight in water (dependent on how active it is) and these creams hydrate the skin by taking the water and submitting it transdermally where the hydration is needed.

The skin is the largest organ of the body and the worst looked after. Even the blood supply neglects to give it what it needs as we ingest fewer vitamins and minerals and more processed foods containing chemicals that are liver has to work harder to reject. The skin recieves less oxygen, vitamins and nutrients it needs.

Oxygen is often a huge factor in skin ageing i.e lack of it. Every living cell needs oxygen. What we breathe is no not as pure as it once was and top that up with smoking and drinking and the skin gets a pretty raw deal.

Microdermabrasion through the suction action alone draws fresh blood back up the surface bringing with it oxygenated blood and nutrients skin needs to repair itself.

When the skins supportive structure is rebuilt and protected from UVA and UVB new collagen can be created by the dermis.

Another fantastic product is Red LED Treatments which combined with microdermabrasion and good skincare speeds up the bodys ability to heal and repair itself.

It is a combination of everything, but a paramedical therapist will assist your friend with all she needs to know on achieving the skin she wants and this can all be done non invasively.

Kate

 

[Martin Duffy]

I do not dismiss microdermabrasion out of hand - like yourself I have many years of experience, have trained in a large number of product ranges & treatment modalities & have both a qualification in dermatology & an A level in human biology. Further to that I have a friend who is a dermatologist who keeps me abreast of the changes in the industry. I would have hoped from my post it would have been obvious that I had some level of knowledge of the skin.

You say that:

"Before moisturising skin you must first remove the layers of dead cells to allow the product to penetrate. Only transdermal products really have an effect on skin conditions as the product works at the point of the problem and does not sit on the surface of the skin giving only remedial effect."

This is not true - you don't have to remove layers to allow penetration of product. Sonophoresis for example can be used to enhance permeability of the skin without compromising the stratum corneum by temporarily reducing lipid density in the intercellular domain of the bi-layers, allowing actives with a higher mollecular weight a greater level of penetration. In fact sonophoresis increases the skin's permeability by up to 800%. When combined with iontophoresis this increases the efficiency by up to 4000%.

As I say, although I offer ultrasonic, red light, laser, microcurrent and various other electrical & product based modalities I don't believe any one of these is THE answer, rather I would want to see the skin before I chose the one most appropriate to the skin - not all modalities are suited to all skins.

 

[nailzandbeauty]

WOW im blinded by the knowledge of you both! thankyou so much for trying to explain things. You are dead right about colleges not learning in depth and to me its very basic training, i love A&P and love to learn how things work with the human body etc. Im totally thrown with all the info that you have given and its hard to take in as im new to all this but willing to try and learn more. Im taking on board what you have given as i keep coming back to this thread and reading it over n over to try and understand what you have written, ill be dreaming about all the big words tonight in my sleep but thankyou so much for it! x

 

[number1kitty]

WOW im blinded by the knowledge of you both! thankyou so much for trying to explain things. You are dead right about colleges not learning in depth and to me its very basic training, i love A&P and love to learn how things work with the human body etc. Im totally thrown with all the info that you have given and its hard to take in as im new to all this but willing to try and learn more. Im taking on board what you have given as i keep coming back to this thread and reading it over n over to try and understand what you have written, ill be dreaming about all the big words tonight in my sleep but thankyou so much for it! x

Lol you pick it all up eventually. No one comes out of college completly clued up. I think I only learnt 10% of what I know there and the rest is all industry based learning.

Your basic facials will help her as you stimulate blood supply so keep up with that. Botox will never make the problem go away. It merely freezes muscles as you know temporarely, I wouldn't overly recommend it but If your after a short fix or can afford long term injections then thats up to each client.

Not sure where in lincolnshire you are but face facts (I think they are called) based in Lincoln are very very good. They do Microdermabrasion and use novita products which are glycol based.

When you get to the point of looking at skincare ranges its a minefield and so many people will tell you there product is the best on the market.

In truth theres been very little breakthrough in new products in the last 20 years and the majority of products contain similar ingredients. Its just some fall in and out of favour such as retinol A.

Look for a product that contains active ingredients and not palpitates and ask them for clinical research that they have on their range.

I use products on test cases (clients) to see for my self the results that the product range or machine claims. I use before and after pictures to establish the results at the end of the trial.

Its costly for a therapist to take on everything they need to offer for advanced skin treatments, but start with a good range and thats half your problem sorted. The rest is just a method of speeding the process/results up I.E Microdermabrasion, LED Therapy Etc.

A good skin care range and a course of facials can take up to 6 months for results to be large enough for a client to notice without pictures. Usually within 4-6 weeks they notice a diffence in hydration etc and then they gradually notice other changes such as reduction in wrinkles and spots etc.

Never be worried if the client experiences the opposite of what they want to achieve such as excess dehydration or spots as sometimes the skin has to get worse to get better. It dosnt happen all the time, but it can happen non the less.

Recomend to see a dietician (if you are not qualified in this, not sure what they teach anymore as part of the curriculum) as diet is as important as a good skincare routine. Allergies to food and underlying health conditions when solved or treated often result in the skin correcting itself too.

Nimue, Danne Montague King, Meso Estetic, Environ all have opening orders for less than a grand and are great result driven ranges.

MD Formulations is excellent too only they changed their opening order to £2500 now which is steep!!

Hope you talk your friend round from the botox. All the best in your new career, beauty therapy is certainly going to explode in the next few years.

Kate x

 

[Martin Duffy]

Agreed that very few of us come out of college knowing all the answers - in fact the day we know it all would be a very dull day indeed! I think the skincare they teach at colleges is pretty much how it was taught in the 70's. There are some fantastic books out there on up-to-date skin theory, which will help you to further understand what's going on underneath, and that combined with the knowledge you garner from experience will take you a long way.

As number1kitty said, never take a companies word on anything, rather undertake personal research from unbiased sources & ask for clinical evidence/studies that back-up claims. I spent ages for example studying dermatologists research into ultrasound on wound healing & fibroblastic activity, effects of sonophoresis etc before purchasing a machine & was astounded at how uninformed the 'trainer' was in how her machine worked.

Diet is also important as has been said, we had to train in this when I did my qualification, which is handy as I'm now insured to give nutritional advice, but I seem to remember someone saying they don't cover this anymore? But it does seem rather odd if they don't as skin is to a large degree a reflection of inner health.

 

[number1kitty]

Agreed that very few of us come out of college knowing all the answers - in fact the day we know it all would be a very dull day indeed! I think the skincare they teach at colleges is pretty much how it was taught in the 70's. There are some fantastic books out there on up-to-date skin theory, which will help you to further understand what's going on underneath, and that combined with the knowledge you garner from experience will take you a long way.

As number1kitty said, never take a companies word on anything, rather undertake personal research from unbiased sources & ask for clinical evidence/studies that back-up claims. I spent ages for example studying dermatologists research into ultrasound on wound healing & fibroblastic activity, effects of sonophoresis etc before purchasing a machine & was astounded at how uninformed the 'trainer' was in how her machine worked.

Diet is also important as has been said, we had to train in this when I did my qualification, which is handy as I'm now insured to give nutritional advice, but I seem to remember someone saying they don't cover this anymore? But it does seem rather odd if they don't as skin is to a large degree a reflection of inner health.

See we agree on most things lol!!! :lol:

xx

 

[Martin Duffy]

It seems we do agree on most things!:lol: