Advice please self employed hourly rate????

[Buff]

Hi, i'm going for an interview Tuesday in a local salon, i briefly spoke to the owner,he wants a self employed beauty therapist hours / days negotiable he supplys all equip & products and says i would work under his insurance and be paid an hourly rate which i would invoice him for at the end of the month. I have read many posts re:self employed on this site & it does'nt seem right, although the set up would suit me i don't want to do anything underhand. Could you fellow Geeks give some opinions and advice on what points i need to ask at interview and what hourly rate to expect to be offered. Thanks

 

[nickij]

sounds like a bit of a grey area... who ever you are going to be working for could be trying to pull a fast one on the tax man... if they are talking about an hourly rate then you are more of an employee than self employed... they are probably thinking that if they do it this way they wont have to bother with PAYE an other tax obligations.
I think you should definetly look into it further, perhaps have a browse on the direct.gov website.... i don't know for definete though.

hth xxx

 

[persianista]

Yes you can work in this way. It is a higher hourly rate than for employed therapists, as there is no employers national insurance or holiday pay to find. Also if you are self employed you can offset things like travel and uniform costs against your annual tax bill.
There are pitfalla however, and it is something you should weigh up carefully according to your circumstances. Eg, if there are no clients booked, will you still be paid, or will he send you home?

 

[eden_beauty]

I agree it always SOUNDS great but really he wants you at his beckon call and if no-one is booked in then would he want you to go home and possibly be calling you here and there if there are walk ins?

You need to set an hourly rate based on if there are clients or not. If a salon employs you then you have to stay there for the alloted time and be paid accordingly whether there are clients or not but i defo wouldn't want to be called whenever theres work so HE can earn money out of me. Hope this makes sense. End of the day make sure you work out contracted hours/days and stick to them.

Yes you can work in this way. It is a higher hourly rate than for employed therapists, as there is no employers national insurance or holiday pay to find. Also if you are self employed you can offset things like travel and uniform costs against your annual tax bill.
There are pitfalla however, and it is something you should weigh up carefully according to your circumstances. Eg, if there are no clients booked, will you still be paid, or will he send you home?

 

[persianista]

Eden Beauty, employers ONLY EVER employ people so that we can make money from them. We don't employ people for any other reason. Ever. An employee earns a living from what we have set up.
Please bear in mind that the equipment and products are all supplied here. there is no outlay or risk involved, apart from the salon owners.
While forcing staff to be self employed helps with the now out of control costs of employing people, it can be a contentious route. Find out everything possible regarding contracts etc and speak to the tax office before you start.

 

[Blue Rose]

Eden Beauty, employers ONLY EVER employ people so that we can make money from them. We don't employ people for any other reason. Ever. An employee earns a living from what we have set up.
Please bear in mind that the equipment and products are all supplied here. there is no outlay or risk involved, apart from the salon owners.
While forcing staff to be self employed helps with the now out of control costs of employing people, it can be a contentious route. Find out everything possible regarding contracts etc and speak to the tax office before you start.

So so true

 

[Buff]

Hi, thanks for your advice, does anyone have a ballpark figure of an hourly rate to start negotiations with? Please

 

[Blue Rose]

Hi, thanks for your advice, does anyone have a ballpark figure of an hourly rate to start negotiations with? Please

Ooh, now you're asking

The answer will probably vary depending on whether it's a salon owner answering or a self-employed therapist.

I've never had self-employed therapists before so can't really say. I pay what therapists are worth to my business. The busier they are & the more clients they re-book, the better they get paid.

Still doesn't really answer your question :irked:, sorry

 

[persianista]

sorry hun, I'm a salon owner, so I'm no help either. wish I could pay thruppence!!!!
If you go in too high, and you don't deliver, he will have to get rid. If you go in too low and do deliver, you go for a raise to what you're worth.

 

[single sparkle]

Just to note - not sure if its the same in the uk. By him paying you an hourly rate according to an invoice from you means that it will be your responsibility to do your own tax, vat , paye etc - you should talk to an accountant first. Can't advise rate of pay sorry

 

[Buff]

Hi, thanks for your input, iv'e been for interview and they are offering £6.00 ph i expressed this was low for self employed but they said it's a new business and it would benefit me being self employed as i could claim back on car, parking, petrol, uniform ect. I did'nt push for more as i'm not experienced and not quick yet. I'm now waiting to hear if i'm sucessful and the hourly rate is paid if i have clients or not, if no clients i would be cleaning & helping out in general. As i said previously all products & equipment are provided so i have no risks and the hours would suit me up to 30 hrs pw at moment. What do you guys think? should i accept if sucessful? I am looking to gain experience and begin my career but not too worried if it does'nt work out as i'm 44 & have not worked since 1995 after my children and supported by hubby.

 

[Blue Rose]

Hmm, doesn't sound very much like a self-employed set up to me :irked:.

Depending on where you are, I personally don't think £6 is too bad for a starting rate of pay for an employed therapist.

Am sure others will be along to give their views.

 

[Blue Rose]

sorry hun, I'm a salon owner, so I'm no help either. wish I could pay thruppence!!!!
If you go in too high, and you don't deliver, he will have to get rid. If you go in too low and do deliver, you go for a raise to what you're worth.

Haha, I know that feeling! Oh for the days before NMW when you could make up wages largely on commission, meaning those that grafted got properly renumerated. Now you have to pay out even if they're quiet :irked:.

 

[persianista]

Yes, the old system def worked. We worked our butts off for the salon. I used to get paiid really well. Nowadays they don't want to work too hard, and just hold their hands out for the money. Took the competitive element away the NMW. Nowadays they just make sure they can live on their basic pay.

 

[h3llsb3lls]

sounds low to me - don't forget you will have to pay tax about 20% and as far as i know you can only claim for mileage not petrol and you cannot claim for mileage to and from work only when you do journeys to say suppliers/mobile appts....also you may have to pay out for an accountant to check over your books if you are not confident doing them yourself......you should maybe only agree to it if it is reviewed in a certain amount of time (3mths) if business does well (but agree it now) - then you can work like crazy to bring the clients in

 

[persianista]

That does sound low to me too. As there is no employers ni or hol pay or ssp involved. I would expect to pay that as a basic for a graduate level 2 therapist plus commission on top. I am in a different part of the country. Could you ask your college friends what they get?

 

[bombini]

Might be worth looking at this,

HM Revenue & Customs: Employment status

Firstly £6 is an absolute joke when you think you are going to have to pay your own tax, NI and as mentioned above you won't be entitled to any holiday pay.

Sounds to me like he is trying to go via the back door and get out of doing all the tax and other things involved with employing someone.

If you are truly self employed he can't tell you what uniform to wear, set your hours, tell you when to take your break, make you clean etc etc. If he wants things done 'his' way then he has to employ someone. If you wanted you could buy a totally different uniform to the one he wants, if your s/e its your choice.

 

[FlawlessBeauty]

I agree with what the other geeks are saying. If he is willing to pay £6 p/h and have you as an employee, then i would take it.

As self-employed, i wouldn't think you would bring home too much money.

If you feel you are set financially, yes this would give you experience, but personally i would ask to go employed.

 

[persianista]

At that rate I agree with Flawless beauty. Plus ask for commission on top.

 

[Buff]

Thanks guy's, just been on HMRC website & all info indicates i would be Employed so i phoned for advice as to how to explain this to the Shop owner & they said i can work there self employed on the terms he is offering i'm really confused now??? i explained everything & he confirmed this is ok & i would be lucky to work for £6.00 ph.
Could any salon owners advise how to deal with this tactfully if i am called back for a trade test. I don't want to be difficult but also want to avoid being exploited, i would like to have enough info to negotiate a reasonable rate/working agreement. Also they are keen for me to perform eyelash extensions (Hollywood Lashes) by just watching a training video to which i explained i will not be performing treatments I'm not properly trained to do & they said it's ok to do that whilst you're waiting to go on the course it could be 6 months or so. Am i just too honest for this business? i feel i'm being picky but want to be professional & it would'nt sit right with me to work on full paying clients like that.