BABTAC worry

[pinkthistle]

I've been insured elsewhere for years but the company won't cover so e treatments I do so I've gone back to BABTAC. I completely understand the reasons why they want certificates sent to them...but after 20 years in the industry I've forgotten about half the courses I've done let alone where the certificates are! 😳 I've also had to ask my staff for their certificates and I can just foresee a nightmare with who has what and maiden names etc...

I questioned did an HND not just cover you for treatments...ie I've done manicure so why do you need to see my Jessica or Opi certificates etc, doesn't the fact I am qualified in manicure cover me for any product I decide to use? I'm now worried! Individual lash course at college was fine at the time, now I need a certificate for whatever product I use?

I'm all for training and certificates and qualifications etc but have they lost sight of the college qualifications? Are we so wrapped up in day courses for example that those of us who have HNDs ect are suddenly penalised?

Another for example... Part of my HND was electrolysis, I've changed from a Carlton machine to a sterex...am I supposed to now get a certificate from sterex to be covered? For me that's not feasible, I've been doing treatments 20 years...why would I now go to the expense to be shown what I've been doing years? My nail box has Naio, OPI, Harmony and ASP acrylics with CND, Sally's, and various other tips and glues...should I worry? 😳

Thoughts?

 

[july]

I ended up cancelling my policy and they were cool about it.
My reason was that they only provide treatment cover, not content cover and I struggled to find an insurer to cover the contents only.
But like I said they were perfectly fine and the refunded what I paid.
The only thing id say is that it doesn't matter what insurance you are with in the event of a claim you will have to provide proof of your training. So even if you may not need to send it upfront you will have to dig for it later.
July

 

[pinkthistle]

But that's my point...I am trained, fully qualified in a treatment before I take a day/ conversion course in a certain product range. A manicure is a manicure regardless of whose polish or creams you apply...I think it's a get out clause for the insurance. You do a CND manicure for example but use an OPI polish...does that void the CND training in insurers eyes so they wouldn't need to pay out?

I qualified in spray tanning with no specific product...do I now need to look for a fake bake/laurens way/sienna certificate....what about companies you trained with that don't exist any more or who's machines were updated? It's mind boggling! I am qualified in skin piercing, all areas... Can I not use a caflon gun for ears without worrying I don't actually have a caflon certificate to send in? My original permanent make up supplier went bust so I buy pigments elsewhere..I've not retrained with the new colours as I know what i am doing mixing etc.

Sally's and ellisons etc ask if you are trained in nails/beauty/hair....not that you have retrained specifically in every product you buy.

I've never claimed, and hopefully never have to, but handing over £400 a year to potentially, technically not be covered?! I wonder if anyone has encountered this having made a claim?

I was listening to a woman on tv today whose house was flooded, her insurers won't pay out because her house is near a drain...neither her or the company knew about this until she claimed, then the insurers checked maps and deemed her claim void...poor woman has lost everything.

 

[Lala12]

Thanks for raising this important issue.

I'll be watching the thread with interest.

 

[Baggybear]

BABTAC are not the only insurance company out there who offer the same cover (or near enough the same).

BABTAC will only cover courses aproved by themselves, so if you have a course that is Guild approved they will NOT cover it. You have to have all BABTAC or equivalent qualifications.

I'm with Salon Gold, they cover all qualifications (BABTAC & Guild & others).

I'd look at other companies that will cover you will less hassle - I agree with you that a manicure certificate should cover you to use any nail polish or gel product.

 

[Kim Lawless]

BABTAC are not the only insurance company out there who offer the same cover (or near enough the same).

BABTAC will only cover courses aproved by themselves, so if you have a course that is Guild approved they will NOT cover it. You have to have all BABTAC or equivalent qualifications.

Sorry to correct you BB but that's incorrect. Babtac WILL cover courses accredited by other companies. It's the other way around…….It's The Guild that WILL NOT cover courses accredited by other companies. x:hug:

 

[Baggybear]

I did say 'or the equivalent' but BABTAC won't cover a guild course - well I was told wouldn't when I asked. :Love:

 

[Kim Lawless]

I did say 'or the equivalent' but BABTAC won't cover a guild course - well I was told wouldn't when I asked. :Love:

So have BABTAC changed their policy now then? I didn't realise that. Gosh, I better check my policy. x

 

[Baggybear]

So have BABTAC changed their policy now then? I didn't realise that. Gosh, I better check my policy. x

I'm not sure if they have changed things again or not.
It seems latley that people keep getting told different things. I chose to stay with Salon Gold again as they accept nearly all qualifications (all of mine) and their policy is enough cover for me at a good price.

I think sometimes the insurance companies make life so hard by over complicating things, wouldn't it be nice if they all sang off the same hymn sheet.

 

[pinkthistle]

I only paid on Thursday. I have emailed BABTAC for clarification and will follow with a call tomorrow and see what they say. I specifically need skin needling which they cover but only if you have the membership...so £89 for an individual membership then £139 I think for needling then extra again for permanent make up multiplied per therapist....aargh! Or salon cover for £199 plus needling with everyone needing to hand in certificates for emailing.

Here's a problem...one therapist is qualified in Calgel. Calgel make their certificates expire meaning you need to keep updating...fair enough...we don't use calgel in the salon and the certificate will clearly be seen as expired for that product BUT, in my opinion it's a gel application certificate no? Why would you need another?

Many moons ago I trained in eyelash Perming...we used Mei Cha products then. The lotions were then changed to individual sachets, fine, then I started using salon system products as they were easier to get...have I technically been uninsured for 10 years?! Same application and technique as in the training...repackaged product.

 

[fascinationkt]

ABT told me it was ok to change from the product I trained in, providing I was using the different brand the way I was trained. HTH

 

[squidgernetball]

I rang BABTAC the other day as I was looking at a Guild accredited course and they said it was fine for them to insure. They did check that I had a minimum of nvq2 as well!

Vicki x

 

[pinkthistle]

Ended up cancelling...so far i am more than double my previous premium, no buildings or employers cover and looking at another £300 to add my staff :Scared: I think its a great policy for therapists with less qualifications...im just not prepared to pay nearly £1000 for all my extras.

On a good note, i spoke at length about my concerns regarding outdated certificates etc and was told the following:

The cover is for the treatment procedures with 3rd party liability cover against risk for products. Unless its a very specialised product then you will need that specific certificate.
If you have college qualifications such as HND you need to send in the Module Breakdown to show what treatments you did at college to be insured for...so if you did Acrylic nails you are covered for ALL acrylic systems regardless of if you have done a conversion course or not. Eyelash extension, all lashes etc
Hope that helps someone. Now im off to find another insurer.

 

[Pinkbunny28]

Did you ask for a discount? Especially since you have never claimed x

Sent from my GT-I9300 using SalonGeek mobile app

 

[pinkthistle]

Even if they halved it it would still be double my old company lol

 

[BABTAC]

Hello ladies,

Thought we’d pop on and respond to this post with some clarifications. We know insurance is tricky, so hopefully this will help. As always, if you have any concerns it is better to get in touch with us (or your respective insurer) directly as we can provide personal and applicable advice, however we can respond with the following; (there are also some personal responses at the end).

With regards to certificates – these are used to prove that you have the training and capability to carry out a treatment; they are proof that you know and understand the relevant techniques and procedures and that you are properly qualified to do so. We are one of the only beauty insurers who ask for these up-front and we do so to ensure that you ARE covered for all the right treatments in the event of a claim. Other insurers will expect you to produce your certificates in the event of a claim, so you will need copies either way; if you can’t produce them, then your claim might be void, so our approach usually helps reduce that risk.

Relating to your specific statement about maiden names; we accept that people move house, marry etc., so we will accept certificates with a maiden name; you just need to let us know at the time and we’ll note it on your record.

Moving on to which certificates we want copies of and which we don’t; there are obviously multiple types of training including:
• Regulated qualifications on the QCF framework e.g. CIBTAC
• Specialist training courses e.g. Intimate Waxing
• CPD Training and one day courses as a refresher, introduction or top-up
• Manufacturer’s training.

We DO NOT expect to see all your certificates; for example:
• If you have done a Level 2 in Beauty Therapy we would not then expect separate certificates for manicures, pedicures etc. The regulated training course will take precedence
• For low-risk treatments such as Gel Nails, these skills will be transferrable across all the product houses, as long as they don’t a) have any additional techniques and b) you use them in the way you were taught.

In all cases, regulated training courses will take precedence, so unless you have learned a new skill outside this training, we won’t need a second certificate. In your example @pinkthistle, your HND will cover you for manicure and your individual lash training will cover you for all types.

Whatever happens, if you claim, you will have to produce a copy of your certificate, so it is best to keep them all together and safe, regardless.

With regards to your point @July, really sorry to hear that you have left us and we are currently working on making our insurance package more comprehensive. Check back next year when you are due for renewal and things should have changed. You are quite right in your statement about certificates!

@BaggyBear, in this case your information is incorrect; we changed our policy earlier this year to increase the standards we expect from our members, but this did not include removing other awarding bodies from our lists. We do still accept and recognise training from The Guild and most others. The only reason we will not accept or recognise certain training is if it a) has been directly assessed by us and does not come up to standard, b) has received a lot of complaints from attendees or c) has an unusually high number of claims which indicates that the training is not comprehensive. We hope this clarifies things. Sorry if you were given mis-information previously.

@PinkThistle in relation to your comments about prices for extensions etc. we are usually competitive on price for most therapists and salons, however there are certain circumstances where we are not. With any insurance company, there are two models they can follow 1) to offer entirely unique / bespoke quotes based on circumstance, which is what happens with car insurance, or 2) to spread the risk across all individuals and offer a fixed price. We currently work on the latter system, as do all dedicated beauty insurers. We are looking at what we can do to make specific quotes such as yours more competitive, but this is a work in progress at the moment.

We hope that clarifies things and are happy to straighten anything else out?

Kind regards
The BABTAC Team

 

[Lala12]

Thanks for coming on this forum to clear things up, BABTAC.

Please would you clarify which low-risk treatments a therapist could carry out across all brands (as per your example of gel nails) and be properly insured with yourselves?

 

[pinkthistle]

So if I chose to stay with my previous insurer but wanted to insure a specialist treatment that you cover and they do not..do I need to pay for a membership also? And does this not make me double insured and therefor void both policies?

 

[BABTAC]

Thanks for coming on this forum to clear things up, BABTAC.

Please would you clarify which low-risk treatments a therapist could carry out across all brands (as per your example of gel nails) and be properly insured with yourselves?

Hi @Lala12,

We insure based on the treatment, not the manufacturer/product house. For example gel nails, spray tanning, facials etc are all insurable based on the fact that you are competent to deliver that treatment, regardless of whether you trained with one product house and are now using another as long as they don’t a) have any additional techniques and b) you use them in the way you were taught. Are you concerned about a specific treatment?

 

[BABTAC]

So if I chose to stay with my previous insurer but wanted to insure a specialist treatment that you cover and they do not..do I need to pay for a membership also? And does this not make me double insured and therefor void both policies?

Hi @pinkthistle,

If you decide to stay with your previous insurer but use us for your specialist cover, you would need to pay for basic membership too, so £89 + the relevant extension. My understanding is that you are able to hold two policies but would be unable to claim on them both, however I would like to check that with our brokers to confirm for sure. I will make the necessary checks for you in the morning and let you know.

Kindest regards
Kelly