princessamie
Well-Known Member
So, you're just here to aggravate people? Is that what you mean by the above?
I don't know why else you would say it.
Do cheaper lamps work with Shellac?
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So, you're just here to aggravate people? Is that what you mean by the above?
I don't know why else you would say it.
NailsbyToni
Well-Known Member
To aggravate people? Not at all. You may not believe that, but it is the truth.
No, I've been waiting for it because there is such a huge difference of opinion that I've been questioning some things, researching other things, and wondering why certain things are the way they are; which leads to me expecting someone would get tired of me doing just that.
No harm meant, just really questioning things.
princessamie
Well-Known Member
Well maybe you should look to rewording your post because it says you were waiting for ME to show up, not someone who'd grown tiresome in general.
NailsbyToni
Well-Known Member
Or perhaps I simply meant "you" in the general sense since I do not know anyone here, let alone anyone well enough to refer to them so personally in a thread?
No matter.. I'll say it now-- "you" the collective of "in general"; not YOU personally.
No matter.. I'll say it now-- "you" the collective of "in general"; not YOU personally.
Lets keep the discussion on track peeps.
FWIW, I don't think CND are saying that there is only 1 lamp that will cure Shellac correctly, they are communicating that it is the only one you can be assured will.
Virtually every single lamp emits differing levels of UV light and will have differing burn off times. But the typical arm-chair engineer will say "Hey, my lamp MUST work because it LOOKs right". I feels for the peeps where lamps are really expensive, but just because you "feel" it is cured correctly, doesn't mean it is... I would wager that more than 90% of the time... it isn't. That is bad for you, the brand AND for the industry.
I also will skip pointing out the ironic bit where professionals complain about other salons/technicians that do it on the cheap, yet insist on doing it "on the cheap"
FWIW, I don't think CND are saying that there is only 1 lamp that will cure Shellac correctly, they are communicating that it is the only one you can be assured will.
Virtually every single lamp emits differing levels of UV light and will have differing burn off times. But the typical arm-chair engineer will say "Hey, my lamp MUST work because it LOOKs right". I feels for the peeps where lamps are really expensive, but just because you "feel" it is cured correctly, doesn't mean it is... I would wager that more than 90% of the time... it isn't. That is bad for you, the brand AND for the industry.
I also will skip pointing out the ironic bit where professionals complain about other salons/technicians that do it on the cheap, yet insist on doing it "on the cheap"
NailsbyToni
Well-Known Member
Lets keep the discussion on track peeps.
I also will skip pointing out the ironic bit where professionals complain about other salons/technicians that do it on the cheap, yet insist on doing it "on the cheap"
I will keep it on track. Sorry.
For the record, I freely admitted I do things on the cheap (concerning certain things, not all things. A lamp is only one of the bigger areas). :wink2:
I don't cheap out on specific products though and I have said I wish I could afford to go "all in" with certain products. I've even admitted that CND was one of those products.. So, if I said something that gave the impression otherwise, please point it out and that I will fix immediately. As long as it wasn't meant for the discussion on polishes.
I wasn't directing my comment at anyone in particular - it is general observation over 20+ years of being in the industry.
IMO go cheap or go expensive. Just always stick with systems. Otherwise you risk perpetuating the negative loop our industry constantly finds itself in.
IMO go cheap or go expensive. Just always stick with systems. Otherwise you risk perpetuating the negative loop our industry constantly finds itself in.
NailsbyToni
Well-Known Member
I don't disagree with this. I just don't think one has to go $500 expensive with a UV lamp.
That's really the crux of what I was attempting to say, honest. I'm sure we could and would have the same discussion on tools/implements and product in general. Nature of the beast and all that.
As I said, I feel for those that have to pay $500 (Australian?) for a lamp, but I don't think that is the case in Florida? Things are generally relative. For example, my son just moved out to Australia and his starting salary is $40k, roughly twice what he was making here. Relatively enough, cost of living is about twice as much too. It is still expensive, but if you can't afford it, vote with your wallet and use another system that is more affordable.
Oh, and for tools/implements, we aren't talking about systems where using differing tools could slowly overexpose your client. We are talking about safety and client longevity. If YOU sensitise a client because of lack of care, it takes one more client off the grid for me to take care of correctly
NailsbyToni
Well-Known Member
I can pay that much if I wish. CosmoProf and SalonCentric (pro division of Sallys) both sell CND, including lamps. Not quite $500, but out of my price range.
You are right though, market prices are what people will pay. Yes, my lamp is the low end one, but for now, it cures and does everything I need it to. I will be upgrading soon, just not to the higher end ones.
And yeah, move here from anywhere over there if you want sticker shock. I would LOVE to be living in England or Australia right now
NailsbyToni
Well-Known Member
By sensitizing, do you mean lamps in general? Or poorer quality tools? Or both?
I do understand what you mean, though, because I have two clients who have MMA damaged nails (one I posted about here) that I am trying to fix.
I can pay that much if I wish. CosmoProf and SalonCentric (pro division of Sallys) both sell CND, including lamps. Not quite $500, but out of my price range.
You are right though, market prices are what people will pay. Yes, my lamp is the low end one, but for now, it cures and does everything I need it to. I will be upgrading soon, just not to the higher end ones.
And yeah, move here from anywhere over there if you want sticker shock. I would LOVE to be living in England or Australia right now
I dont think the CND lamps are anywhere near that in the US.
Here is what I was referring to: You have NO idea if your lamp is curing the product safely. No professional can even tell once the product is 50% cured, yet half baked nails lead to service breakdown and overexposure (which leads to permanent sensitisation).
Your lamp MAY be curing, or curing close enough (for now, depending on the bulb burn rate) but you nor I will be able to tell. Clients that don't return? Is it because the service failed to exceed their expectations due to being undercured? That hurts the industry more than even the overexposure issue as customers say "meh, I had Shellac and it didn't really last".
To me, its like taking my car in to be serviced by the dealer and they use no-name brand parts because they are cheaper, yet charge me full whack. Their substitution may work fine. Or it may not. Or it may void my warranty. Who knows? What I do know is that I would be seriously pissed off if I went to a dealer expecting a particular service and they cut corners to save a bit. Your customers are expecting the full service, not cut corners (at full price) to save you a few cents per service.
Hope that makes sense.
NailsbyToni
Well-Known Member
I don't necessarily disagree, but I'll take it a step further--we don't know that about ANY lamp, not just mine or others. We know CND makes the claim their lamp does do the trick, but have there been experiments proving this (and generally about ANY lamp)?
Again, I don't necessarily disagree with you. I'm just on a different fence post about it.
Yup. They have. They specifically design their products to react to the output of their lamps. And trust me when I say that if they could have designed them WITHOUT a lamp (e.g. recommend any 36w lamp), they would have. Lamps are not money makers they are barriers to system adoption and successful servicing. However we seriously invest in getting lamps into the hands of professionals because it is otherwise impossible to make a gel cure safely with a broad range of lamps. Lamp and Gel mismatch is (IMO) the largest challenge facing our industry today.
NailsbyToni
Well-Known Member
Just so I am clear--CND has tested their product against every known lamp? That's just the science teacher-wife in me asking.
But, okay fine. Let's say CND has done that. If so, then I'm going to continue questioning the worth of the product and potentially just not use them anymore since I cannot justify the cost yet.
Jen889
Well-Known Member
Ah ok,I think this is where its getting confusing for you. Most, if not all, of us charge extra for a gel polish or Shellac manicure as the products cost more and most people have had to go on courses. This is why we call it a "service" on its own. Its actually industry norm to charge more for gel polish, I wish I could include it into a regular mani/pedi like you but I'd be losing a ton of money lol
NailsbyToni
Well-Known Member
That's what I've been trying to say all along
You guys HAVE to have certification. Ours just looks good and is for bragging rights (again, don't necessarily agree or disagree..just saying)..
My mistake, I thought you had asked if it had been tested with their lamp.Just so I am clear--CND has tested their product against every known lamp? That's just the science teacher-wife in me asking.
But, okay fine. Let's say CND has done that. If so, then I'm going to continue questioning the worth of the product and potentially just not use them anymore since I cannot justify the cost yet.
The reality is that it is impossible to test with every lamp as that is a variable constantly in flux. They tested against enough lamps at the time to determine they would have to make their own if they wanted to maintain safe levels of cure.
princessamie
Well-Known Member
That's what I've been trying to say all along
We don't HAVE to have certification for every brand - it's a choice and a stipulation for insurance mainly.
Although, I'm Shellac trained but, my insurance company would insure me to use Gelish (for example) without training with Harmony.
There's no need for certification at all in the UK, it's, unfortunately, an unregulated industry and its worse off for it.
