How dodgy!

[JuicyLucy]

The salons that use MMA call it gel! (I am talking in general here) They are not trying to mislead or lie. That is what they call it. It makes a 'gel' when l&p is mixed (in fact some time ago a UV gel was called 'premixed')

But getting so het up about being sold 'gel' really isn't the issue

Actually, in the area I live, there are loads of NSS that advertise Acrylic, Gel or Fibreglass. Acrylic is always quoted as the cheapest and fibrebreglass the most expensive. In actual fact, the clients all get the exact same thing i.e. a liquid dipped in a powder with a final UV topcoat. This is misleading and lying to the client. They work on the basis that most clients do not know the difference.

I agree with Jac4harry, they are intentionally misleading clients.

 

[wendy malley]

Oh I see.The bottom line is they dont care if they get nails that last longer that are cheap, they are and they do. They dont understand and maybe dont give a s**t even if we do x

 

[Nailsinlondon1]

I have clients come to me all the time from Salons that have charged them extra because the client wanted gel.
What they did get was L&P with a UV top coat. That to me is like going to the butchers and asking for steak and he gives you beef burgers and charges you more for it.... yep its made from Beef alright, but it ain't steak lol.

There is a real honesty issue here!!!!! Or a real lack of education issue!!!!!

I explain the difference of products, suggest a plan of action and proceed to infill. There is no way I would remove, that could be like opening a can of worms. The nail underneath could be so damaged that nothing would hold on it. So I rebalance, let the old stuff grow out and change them over to my system that way. I am not turning anyone away, but turning them around to my way of thinking and may way of doing nails.

Just my thoughts xxx

 

[wendy malley]

They probably would care if they knew they were being lied to and the damage that could be done so yes there is an honesty issue and a moral one too but it shows you how little the public know about nails. :cry:

 

[VHunter]

When confronted by MMA (which you can smell as soon as you start filing...), I ONLY do rebalances.
I avoid soak-off's/removals because
A) you wind up exposing the nail plate damage and the client to discomfort (although not caused by you.
B) the time it takes to remove them is NOT pleasant for me, nor the client
C) I usually find that quality products don't like damaged nails and tend to 'lift' following an application to MMA/NSS-traumatized nails.
D) when the plate is really damaged, and uv gel is applied, avoiding a heat spike is very nearly impossible in some cases.

I explain it all to the client and while the 'yellow' of the old product is unsightly, I prefer not to torture them and expose the damaged plate.
And a rebalance is less costly to them than charging double for the removal (because it takes so long) and then the cost of a new set on top of that?

I would NEVER tell a client to return to the NSS to have them removed because they NSS "pry them off' which only makes matters worse.

When they see my 'gel' come out, they're always surprised and ask what it is. Hardly their fault, I know.

As for NSS referring to L&P as gel because it's what they've always done.. hmmmmmm I'm more inclined to think that they're crooks. Simple fact is in the salons around here, they tell people "get bio gel, it's better for your nails, only 5-10 dollars more" and then proceed to apply L&P with gel written on the pot.
That is straight up SCAMMING of the public.
There is no excuse for it.
And no one can tell me that they don't know what they're doing. BULL!
You never see any of them wearing their own nails.
OF COURSE NOT! They see the damage they cause on a daily basis.

Due to my way of doing things and explaining EVERY LITTLE DETAIL to my clients... I've built a nice strong base and they're educating their friends.
Knowledge is power, SHARE IT.

Eventually, things WILL change. Nothing stays the same forever.

 

[Karen Minx]

I have done one rebalance on MMA nails and found it a bugger to blend. It took me 2 and a half hours trying to rebalance those beasties and i still wasn't happy with the end result. You could see the product difference in the new regrowth section. Thats why i advised her a soak off and new set on her next appointment and she agreed. She became a loyal client for about 6 months until she married and moved away.

I'm not sure what the MMA nails are like in different area's, but here in this area they are dreadfully thick and very thick in zone 3. The cuticle line are dreadful to try and blend flush to the nail plate esp when lifting has already started due to the zone 3 being too thick!

 

[Jac4Harry]

You never see any of them wearing their own nails.
OF COURSE NOT! They see the damage they cause on a daily basis.

Due to my way of doing things and explaining EVERY LITTLE DETAIL to my clients... I've built a nice strong base and they're educating their friends.
Knowledge is power, SHARE IT.

Eventually, things WILL change. Nothing stays the same forever.

That is SO true.

 

[Mooey]

For those of you who have done a rebalance on MMA's how did you find it? I have considered doing this in the past but I'm too afraid the products will fight with each other and you will be able to see the difference, or worse still, the enhancements might come away from the nail or chip off. What are your genuine experiences with this?

 

[Nailsinlondon1]

For those of you who have done a rebalance on MMA's how did you find it? I have considered doing this in the past but I'm too afraid the products will fight with each other and you will be able to see the difference, or worse still, the enhancements might come away from the nail or chip off. What are your genuine experiences with this?

I have done it many of times, I use a camouflage colour a shade that suits the clients skin tone. This hides any discoloration. MMA sticks to the nail like nothing else not because its a fab product, but the nail underneath is shredded to bits, so true MMA very rarely lifts.
Not all NSS nails are MMA I have to add, a lot of them just use a cheap generic product. It's the prep thats the killer for the nails. Look out for nice little ring marks the e-file has left, if you see lots of them, re balance is your better choice, as you can bet your life, the nail underneath is damaged and will be like flimsy paper.

A few good sound infills and the old product soon grows out. I always tell clients that there may bit a little bit of colour difference, but they are ok with that, as they know when the yucky colour has gone, so is the crappie product on their nails.

Product coming away from the nail or chipping can happen even with good products. If it does then deal with it, as one problem at a time..... Make clients aware of why and how you are dealing with their nails and they will understand. But one thing is for sure, do a brill job and they will never go back to anyone else xxx

 

[Karen Minx]

For those of you who have done a rebalance on MMA's how did you find it? I have considered doing this in the past but I'm too afraid the products will fight with each other and you will be able to see the difference, or worse still, the enhancements might come away from the nail or chip off. What are your genuine experiences with this?

I've only rebalanced once. I used CND and you could see a slight difference in the acrylic. In my experience dealing with MMA nails is that around here in this area, the salons tend to use just clear powder with an airbrushed tip.

Since reading this thread i have changed my mind on MMA nails has i agree that good quality products don't like to bond to damaged nails. so when my next MMA client comes through my door i am going to try and rebalance. I will use clear powder and just infill. I will paint on a white tip or a colour polish until the MMA has grown out.

I have seen photo's on here where a lady has done a nice french tip over acrylic using a natural white OPI polish and they look great. No way am i gonna try and backfill, done it once before and its a wrist killer!

 

[raznik]

I know this happens, and unfortunately happens alot, but lately I am getting SO many clients booking in for gel refills, which of course is fine.
They turn up to the appointment and I begin the consultation, and realise as soon as I see their nails they are in fact l&p- MMA style.

I get angry (internally of course!) for these people, as they generally are paying extra for "gel" nails.

It took me 3 hours- 3 HOURS- to soak off one set on a young girl the other week. Her nails were so damaged I felt terrible, even though it wasn't my fault.

What is the best way to educate these clients on MMA salons? How can I educate them enough to realise they don't care about the overall health of the clients nails, just the $$ side of things. Does anyone hand out info on it to their clients?

Sorry its taken me a while to answer.
I explain to them that acetone isnt really effective in the removal of that type of acrylic, and that I dont think they would be happy paying for three hours of my time. ( to my thinking if they want them off, then there not going to be a quality repeat client, unless your lucky).
With infills, I just explain that im not happy to guarantee my work, as weve now mixed systems, and seeing as I know theres will go yellow, its not going to be my guarantee that they can take advantage of.

The mma salons in oz know the difference between acrylic and gel, as they have there price lists clearly distinguishing the two products, and charge more for Gel. I have had one client paying for what she though was bio sculpture, and described the method of L and P when I quizzed her.

 

[VHunter]

I'm not sure what the MMA nails are like in different area's, but here in this area they are dreadfully thick and very thick in zone 3. The cuticle line are dreadful to try and blend flush to the nail plate esp when lifting has already started due to the zone 3 being too thick!

For those of you who have done a rebalance on MMA's how did you find it? I have considered doing this in the past but I'm too afraid the products will fight with each other and you will be able to see the difference, or worse still, the enhancements might come away from the nail or chip off. What are your genuine experiences with this?

Nails can be thick or dreadfully shaped whether they are from NSS, are of MMA, or from a newly/poorly trained tech.
One is not necessarily sign of the other.
Around here, they're actually quite flush at the eponychium BUT thick as shovels at the free edge.

They are a pain in the butt to reduce, but I use my e-file and reduce as much possible without baring the natural nail. As mentioned, I use either a cbm pink to hide some of what's there and/or apply a glitter fade, or polish.
The clients are usually quite happy to A) skip the extra cost of removal B) go without exposing the natural/damaged nail and suffering the discomfort that goes with it if it is THAT damaged.

I tried, in the beginning, the entire process of removal & reapplying and that just didn't work for me A) too long to do and BOTH client and myself were frustrated by the time B) client was uncomfortable due to damage C) I'd see more lift issues with clients such as that due to the damage.... it just didn't seem worth it to me.

I usually explain everything up front, have a nice chat and let them choose. USUALLY they choose my way of slowly growing out the 'yukka' and are happier for it.
In fact, they often make a point to their friends "look how clear that acrylic is vs the old yellow stuff? look? no red lines!" and that's how I have gained a couple more as well.

My way is NOT the only way obviously.
There's more than one way to skin a cat. To each his own.
I'm just explaining what has worked better 'for me'.

 

[ker3003]

This all sounds dreadful! Sorry to sound a bit stupid but what is an NSS salon and what is MMA, I've never heard if it? xxx

 

[Mooey]

Thanks for the info ladies... I guess I will give it a go on my next MMA client instead of turning them away! Hopefully all will go well... well I will keep you posted anyway! xx

 

[Karen Minx]

I am actually looking forward to my next MMA client now. Im going to see it has a challenge!

But i need to know this. If we were to infill these type of nails. Where do we stand if they develope a nail infection within the MMA acrylic (when the MMA product starts to break down and go yellow) and not within our own product after we have serviced them? Will we be liable for some other techs bad working practices? iykwim.

 

[VHunter]

I am actually looking forward to my next MMA client now. Im going to see it has a challenge!

But i need to know this. If we were to infill these type of nails. Where do we stand if they develope a nail infection within the MMA acrylic (when the MMA product starts to break down and go yellow) and not within our own product after we have serviced them? Will we be liable for some other techs bad working practices? iykwim.

Discuss the possibility with them, and have them sign a disclaimer.
I have never had a client develop one AFTER coming to see me.
If they're going to have it, they usually show up with it ALREADY showing...and we take it from there depending on what kind of 'infection' it is..

 

[Karen Minx]

Discuss the possibility with them, and have them sign a disclaimer.
I have never had a client develop one AFTER coming to see me.
If they're going to have it, they usually show up with it ALREADY showing...and we take it from there depending on what kind of 'infection' it is..

Thanks Victora :hug: