Moroccan oil and silicones

[Cookie303]

Hi all,
Sorry I am coming to this debate late but i really need advice from some fellow hair geeks with a bit more experience.
My interest in this came up on a recent thread where I was talking about a client whose hair has suddenly become very dry and brittle after starting to use a lot of Morrocan Oil glimmer spray. This product in particular, she was fine with the oil.
Someone suggested I check the product for protein or silicones. It is pretty much all silicones!! I thought hey there's the problem, I will tell her to just go back to the oil. Checked the ingredients of the oil, full of silicones. The conditioners are the same.
I am really confused. I remember before I even did my training, my hairdresser at the time telling me to stop using L'oreal Elvive because it is a rubbish product full of silicones that only coat the hair. But we sell MO products telling people they are therapeutic for the hair, they are certainly a lot more expensive than your silicone filled supermarket products.
Would be interested to hear peoples opinions on here, I can't really afford to start hating MO because it is the top selling line in my salon!! We stock the entire range.
Now I also have no idea what to tell my client who is coming in tomorrow. She had no problems at all til she used the glimmer shine on a daily basis. Now it feels like no moisture can penetrate the hair and it is horribly dry and brittle. I guess I should clarify thoroughly to get rid of silicone build up.
Would appreciate any thoughts.

 

[adamlea87]

There are all different type of silicone in salon products, mainly because they work really well. It's a bit of a bad word at the moment just like some types of food ingredients. I haven't used that product, but I know that Moroccan oil primarily uses dimethicone - one of the less water soluble silicones, however this should only be an issue for clients using the no-poo (no shampoo method) or perhaps some sulphate free shampoos. I find that the malibu treatments are good for removing build up - of all products, the build up may be due to hard water/minerals too.

 

[surf girl]

Wow I did not know mo had silicone! I'm always telling people off for products full of silicone like Pantene etc. I genuinely thought morocan oil was just the oil from the plant that's why it's so expensive.

 

[adamlea87]

@kahuna hair that is the ingredient that makes the hair feel smooth and soft. It also uses another silicone that I can't remember the name of as a carrier agent that makes the product feel smiley and easy to run through the hair - this type of silicone completely evaporates away leaving the dimethicone behind.

 

[adamlea87]

It is a good product but it also contains coloring - perhaps to look like actual argon oil because the last time I read the ingredients, I think that argon oil was listed beneath the fragrance (ingredients over 10% of the product are listed in order of most>least)

 

[surf girl]

Interesting, I watched how it's made recently the episode about argan oil from morroco and they diddnt mention any additives. I'd bet that stuff was a lot more pricey than morocan oil! The silicone you mentioned isn't something found in the products we deter clients from tho is it? I.e Pantene type sillicones?

 

[adamlea87]

To be honest I have never used pure argon oil, and I also really like Moroccan oilso I am not saying it is a bad product at all!

Pantene is made by P&G that also make Wella... they spend about $2,000,000,000 (TWO BILLION) a year in research & development, they know how to make good products.

I don't know about pantene products, but I have heard about silicone creating a hard layer of plastic/glass on the hair, and it is to the best of my knowledge, non-sense.

 

[surf girl]

Before I studied hair I used to think Pantene was fab Silky glossy shiney hair

 

[cassies97]

@adamlea87 but isn't silicone bad when it creates a non water-soluble layer on the hair because nutrients and stuff cant get in?

 

[adamlea87]

Haha maybe it still is lol

 

[surf girl]

Haha maybe it still is lol

I should be if that much research has gone into it!

 

[adamlea87]

@cams97 I believe even the most 'water-insoluble' silicone's are still water-permeable, as in they are not a solid barrier. The hair is dead as your shoelace, it wouldn't know what to do with nutrients

 

[cassies97]

@cams97 I believe even the most 'water-insoluble' silicone's are still water-permeable, as in they are not a solid barrier. The hair is dead as your shoelace, it wouldn't know what to do with nutrients

So basically then, what you're saying is we cant really add moisture and stuff to the hair anyway?

I learn so much from you!

 

[adamlea87]

So basically then, what you're saying is we cant really add moisture and stuff to the hair anyway?

I learn so much from you!

Thanks Cams, I am learning with you too,.

If you use a product that is smoothing the surface of the hair (hydrophobic) then you are preventing moisture loss. The hair-care industry is at large dishonest and disingenuous. You can add anything to the hair but remember 'healthy hair' is moronic as a 'healthy corpse'. x

 

[cassies97]

Thanks Cams, I am learning with you too,.

If you use a product that is smoothing the surface of the hair (hydrophobic) then you are preventing moisture loss. The hair-care industry is at large dishonest and disingenuous. You can add anything to the hair but remember 'healthy hair' is moronic as a 'healthy corpse'. x

So obviously even though hairs dead, you can still have dry and 'moisturised hair' but when the hair becomes very damaged, a hydrating or moisturising treatment isn't the best product? Its just going to be cosmetic and wear off? Cause there isn't that much moisture in the hair if its really dry and damaged to start with so we'll in the long run be making it worse? Hope i'm making sense what i'm trying to get across...

 

[surf girl]

Every time you add moisture with most products it's just a mask that's because the hair is hydrophobic, on the next wash the product is removed and Is back to square 1, ovs there are some treatments which help rebuild but in general pooped hair is pooped just chop it off lol

 

[cassies97]

Every time you add moisture with most products it's just a mask that's because the hair is hydrophobic, on the next wash the product is removed and Is back to square 1, ovs there are some treatments which help rebuild but in general pooped hair is pooped just chop it off lol

See i knew they just masked the hair, so i was wondering the only thing that'll actually make the hair better is protein which can also make it worse.

We still need olaplex over here as well cause you can do stand alone treatments with that!

I know haha i always say to clients just chop it off cause it'll only snap off on its own anyway!

Wouldn't you rather lose some length and have nice thick healthy hair than have it long, scraggy and dead? I know what i'd choose if i was a girl! But so many clients hold on to length so dearly and theres no point it being there really!

 

[surf girl]

See i knew they just masked the hair, so i was wondering the only thing that'll actually make the hair better is protein which can also make it worse.

We still need olaplex over here as well cause you can do stand alone treatments with that!

I know haha i always say to clients just chop it off cause it'll only snap off on its own anyway!

Wouldn't you rather lose some length and have nice thick healthy hair than have it long, scraggy and dead? I know what i'd choose if i was a girl! But so many clients hold on to length so dearly and theres no point it being there really!

I've heared a variety of things about olaplex latley mind, not such a miracle product for everyone after all, yea there's a fine line with adding protien to the hair, IMO it's best used to even out porosity end of. A good chop and not too much heat & chemicals & we wouldn't need moisture & protien lol

 

[cassies97]

I've heared a variety of things about olaplex latley mind, not such a miracle product for everyone after all, yea there's a fine line with adding protien to the hair, IMO it's best used to even out porosity end of. A good chop and not too much heat & chemicals & we wouldn't need moisture & protien lol

Well one size doesn't fit all does it! I know, some people just wont let it go though

 

[tsparker78]

To be honest I have never used pure argon oil, and I also really like Moroccan oilso I am not saying it is a bad product at all!

Pantene is made by P&G that also make Wella... they spend about $2,000,000,000 (TWO BILLION) a year in research & development, they know how to make good products.

I don't know about pantene products, but I have heard about silicone creating a hard layer of plastic/glass on the hair, and it is to the best of my knowledge, non-sense.

But what goals is that money spent to support?