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gillian w

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well said babs! I have to say that i wouldn't get out of bed for minimum wage, it shocks me that an employer would openly say that they pay their staff minimum wage because they can't afford anymore when at the same time talking about opening another salon. One word springs to mind...GREED!!
I second Everything you have said Babs.
I love what i do but when you are feeling exploited its not all about the job and anyone only takes so much.A beauty business is only as good as its therapists, the businesses that survive and become increasingly successful like any business are the ones that look after their staff and recognise their hard work and let them share in their profits by providing good working conditions and decent wages.
 

JOM

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BABS -

obviously you didn't read the post... I said my GF worked for 3 years on minimum wage.
maybe you owe me an apology for jumping the gun?
my GF is a good beauty therapist... she worked for min wage.
the 3 girls in her old salon STILL work for min wage - so are they all no good?

we don't plan to have high staff turnover... again READ the post, I said very clearly we would have to offer and insentive beyond and including financial.
I know people scan read but considering how you went off you really should have read the post first.

if you don't think working in a salon is a desirable job then I think you need to think again.

it's probably one of the most popular vocation's there is.
as an real life indicator, why not phone you local college and find out how many spaces they had empty last year, and the year efore and the year before.
Then do the same and speak to the engineering tutor and ask the same question.

Yes, we would open another salon and yes, we might not be in a strong enough position to give anything but the going rate wage?
I don't know your background but I can tell you salons don't make as much PROFIT as you think... it's MY income as well - I have a family I have to support.
You need to get realistic if you think salons are gold mines or something.

Tell me...
You have just said when you have your salon you will give what you can afford, what if you can only afford min wage?
What are you gonna do?


To all who think opening more is a bad idea...
Why?
If you are making a small profit, then you open another up and make another small profit.
Then 2 small profits together might provide your family with a better income.
What is so bad about that?
Again... how much do you think a salon profit is?
 

JOM

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Oh yes.... an you mention GREED!!!!

Did you miss the part where I put I was going to be a pesonal trainer and I would be on min wage as well - just to supplement our income????

You ALL need to get of your high horses and realise that just because we run a small business doesn't make you instantly rich.
 

gillian w

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And i would reply if you look after your staff they will look after you if you have a reasonably paid hard working enthusiastic experienced therapist she will make more money for you than one that is just out of college looking to go after a year to a better paid job.
 

1999judy

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Oh yes.... an you mention GREED!!!!

Did you miss the part where I put I was going to be a personal trainer and I would be on min wage as well - just to supplement our income????

You ALL need to get of your high horses and realise that just because we run a small business doesn't make you instantly rich.
No, you are sooo right it definately doesn't.
I will be working in this industry for a while before I ever get rich...IF ever.
BUT I get clients who say "why do you work here in this room for yourself?"
"Why don't you work in one of those flashy salons and earn megabucks????"
People don't realise just how hard it is to be successful in this industry.
Nail techs? They are ten a penny.
GOOD nail techs.... a different story.
I hope to be one of the good ones and still have my little room, my own space, and run my little business.
LITTLE is a very small word but it means a lot to me.:)
 

JOM

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Caterer.com - Job details for Beauty Therapist (De Vere Group - Village Leeds)

Wages after a quick job centre search.
manchester = 10k year
middleton = £6 an hour
manchester = £6.50
whitfield = £meets min wage
disley = £6 per hour
warrington = £11500 year
ACCRINGTON = £5.50 per hour
standish = £meets minimum wage
thorbury = £5.35 per hour
SHEFFIELD = £5.50

I think that speaks for itself.
 

JOM

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No, you are sooo right it definately doesn't.
I will be working in this industry for a while before I ever get rich...IF ever.
BUT I get clients who say "why do you work here in this room for yourself?"
"Why don't you work in one of those flashy salons and earn megabucks????"
People don't realise just how hard it is to be successful in this industry.
Nail techs? They are ten a penny.
GOOD nail techs.... a different story.
I hope to be one of the good ones and still have my little room, my own space, and run my little business.
LITTLE is a very small word but it means a lot to me.:)
Great post.
A down to earth person.
This is true, we struggled ourselves geting enough money together just to open.
I won't tell you the hours my GF is putting in.

Of course it would be ideal if we could pay a very experianced employee and have enough money to pay them a good wage... but how do we generate enough money to do that, we only just scrape through as it is.

Judy who posted above is obviously trying just as hard.
TBH I am fed up of people thinking that you are loaded just because you are self employed - it just isn't like that and if you think it is you are really in for a shock when it comes to the crunch.

As Judy says... to some of us in this industry a little does mean a lot.
Put yourself in our shoes... I came from a factory and the whole rat race cheaper faster quicker environment, now I am entering the low paid but nice environment of the health industry... it's not a great wage mut to me it's worth it just for the quality of life.
My GF is exactly the same... she left a salon run by a harsh managment style to our easy going place and it's like a huge weight off her or a cloud from over her head.
One small step on the face of it... one huge leap in our hearts and minds.

It's just the same for other people.
Thus supply and demand driving wages down.
People WANT to work in salons - most I have met certainly don't do it for the money anyway.
 

gillian w

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No most young people don't do it for the money but as you get older with more responsibility you have to either change career or go out on your own.I dont consider i am away with the fairies i have worked from both sides.What i am saying is if employers have a good therapist or want a good experienced therapist they need to be prepared to pay them a decent wage.That therapist will then generate them money.
 

poppy2

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Ive read most of the replies on here so far and im appalled at the low rate people are getting despite most of them getting proper qualifications. It does make you wonder. What are employers thinking of? A good business is made up from good staff. Without good staff you dont get good clients and repeat business. Work takes up most of our lives so think on employers and treat staff with more respect and reward them for their efforts. They will make your business better.
Im about to reduce my hours from a well paid living as a self employed accountant. A couple of reasons for this that i wont go into abd its not all about money but i do think i should get paid for giving a good service and for my training hence expertise( when ive got it) Its a pampering experience clients will pay for it. Come on employers sort yourself out. And i do know what im talking about as i see lots of accounts etc and i know about profit margins etc and how much the boss makes out of the employees.
Treat people the way you want to be treated or as the saying goes the people you meet on the way up you are sure to meet on the way down.
 

BABSann

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I own a salon and my GF works for me but obviously the profits are our wages.

When we employ we will be paying min wage, my GF worked for 3 years in a old salon as a employee on min wage with not even an inflation rise.
We won't be able to afford to do anything else.

Thing is, unless you work for yourself that sort of wage is industry standerd.
Same with factory work, I worked with ppl who had HND's and were still only on 10k a year.

With a salon, it's a desirable job... much like a air hostess.
For me, I am training to be a personal trainer to supplement our family income as well as the profits from the salon.
I will only be earning minimum wage or not far off as well, this is because soooo many people want this sort of work so supply and demand of employees available drives the wages people are willing to work for down.
Quote when we employ we will be paying a minimum wage.

Yes Jom I can read perfectly well thankyou,and this is your words not mine.You said this about your employees not just your girlfriend.

I stand by everything I say and will continue to stay on my HIGH HORSE because I damned well think I should not because of you in particular but people that want something for nothing.

Oh and by the way,you may have a family to support but so have a lot of therapists,its not easy for them either you know,working an 8 hour day,doing maybe 5 full body massages(deep massages at that)and for what???Minimum wage.Its not for me mate,never .
 

JOM

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Well if you read my post you would logically see the context it was in.

Yes we will be paying min wage, what choice do we have?
Where does all the money for wages you are expecting come from?
Businesses have lot's of overheads you probably don't realise but they all add up.
Your hourly rate on a small shop just to be open is about £10 an hour, you might only get a 3 people on the sunbed and an eyebrow wax in that time.
So you have turned over what, £2x3 = £6 + £6 eyebrow wax all of £12 pounds.
Lets say rent is £10k a year so that would make (on a 40 hour week) at least £4.80 you need to recover, not to mention TAX, insurance, energy bills.

So we have £12 turnover take away £4.80 (or more) = £7.20
Lets say you pay yourself (the owner min wage) = £5.35
Leaves you with = £1.85 to cover all the TAX, insurance, energy bills, equipment, stock, consumables, your own nat ins contributions, your mortageg, your food, your kids clothes, your petrol etc etc
Your business is you personal survival... you just do not have the amount of spare cash you obviously think is available to spend on staff overheads.

But your expecting every employer, just because there an employer to pay more? while they and there family suffer - AND then call them GREEDY!!!
That makes me sick.

You have no idea how hard it is for a small salon just to break even never mind a profit.

If you work for a cracking wage, then bully for you.
There's a lot of people who don't as proved on the job centre website who would be devastated for you to under value there earnings so badly with insensitive comments like "I wouldn't get out of bed for it"

When we do employee more staff, the first new member I will be basically handing over MY wage to them from working in a gym!!! and I will only be on min wage as said.
This is how difficult and challenging business is. I drive a 12 year old Vauxhall and have no money to fix my boiler. I have not been on holiday for years... but I am somehow greedy!!!
OK cheers, thats really nice of you.

SOME people need to. They do it to get a foot in the industry, it doesn't make them NO GOOD as you are trying to lable them as.
They are worthy people no matter what they earn and don't deserve to be made out to be no good at what they do.

It's nothin to do with employers being GREEDY.
It is soooo obviously to do with the ample labour pool of qualified people willing to work for the wage they get purely because they want to.

How do you think the building industry feels with all the polish buiding teams under cutting them, it drives down prices... soon maybe being a builder might not mean you have a well paid job.

It's business, not a dream world.
As I see it, there will be a natural progression starting from the bottom.
Your staff generate income = your business makes more money = you can afford to pay your staff more money.
Then you want to keep them = you give them insentives to stay.
They take more responsibility like a salon manager = they earn more for doing more and free up your time to expand your business.

It's basic managment and basic business - and to be frank, it's realistic and not a pipe dream that you can pay your staff £20k a year and you be on £20k a year as well for a small business ESPECIALLY a salon which operate on very small profit margins.

The original poster have a valied point, her employer was doing really well and it wasn't reflected.
I agree'd this was a problem and was wrong.
But I also very clearly explained why industries with lot's of choice of ppl willing to work for less and battle for the same jobs (AKA supply and demand) drives down wages... the same as cheap beans drives down the price of beans.

Admit it... you were wrong to slag me off as an employer tarring me with the same brush as a big corperation with loads of money.
You didn't see the bigger picture of what a challeging life running a small business is with such low profit margins.
And you were wrong to de-value people and there skills because of there wage. That hurts peoples feelings.


You didn't answer my question...
If you ran a salon, and could only afford to pay minimum wage what would you do?
Would you carry on working double the hours yourself?
 

littlepinkfairy

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minimum wage is an appalling amount, if your girlfriend worked for minumum wage for 3 years or whatever then more fool her. Like the others have said don't expect to get an experianced therapist who is good at her job to stay with your business for long.
 

JOM

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and your point is what exactly?
point out the bit where I said that I would get an experianced therapist who is good at her job to stay with your business for long (on min wage as you are implying I said).

Oh yes... you must have missed the following:
the ppl that are running salon tat are doing really well, then yes, they should obviously reflec that IMO.
if we want to keep them will have to get offered some sort of insintive... being financially better off will come with the job.
we would have to offer and insentive beyond and including financial.
it would be ideal if we could pay a very experianced employee and have enough money to pay them a good wage
Your staff generate income = your business makes more money = you can afford to pay your staff more money.
Then you want to keep them = you give them insentives to stay.
The original poster have a valied point, her employer was doing really well and it wasn't reflected.
I agree'd this was a problem and was wrong.

FACT - 1.9 million people are on min wage, by your comments more fool them eh?
 

littlepinkfairy

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out of the 1.9 million people working on minimum wage, how many of them do you think enjoy waking up each day and working for peanuts? how many of them wouldn't leave thier company in an instant if they got a better offer?
If you are not looking for somebody who has experiance and/or are good at thier job then i do apologise, i just assumed that you wanted your business to be successful. my mistake.
 

JOM

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why are you just being so awkward... no matter how well I put myself you just seem to pick a problem?

what part of this explanation are you struggling with? it really is very simple:
Your staff generate income = your business makes more money = you can afford to pay your staff more money.
Then you want to keep them = you give them insentives to stay.
What part of that did you gleam that I didn't want my business to be successful?

Also... you are inventing things again... I didn't say all of the 1.9 million were happy with there money - the qty was to display to you just how many people are working on min wage.
Many like me for a career change and better quality of life.
THAT many people... more fool them? - oh really LOL come on get real.

Many of that 1.9 will be the same as every other new starter in any other industry and expect them to want to earn more but be happy with there career choice.
Training and experiance and getting a foot in the door or a break into the industry is what most people are looking for.
Pay increases with experiance, time with the company and promotions.
It's nothing unusual.

Your better offer question... AGAIN you are just totally selective reading everything I type!!! So once again I will quote:
if we want to keep them will have to get offered some sort of insintive... being financially better off will come with the job.
This is getting silly.
 

jodiecoxap

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I've just started a new job at a spa near to where I live, am on £5.65 an hour but only left college 5 months ago. I also get full use off all the facilites (swimming pool etc) 10% commission on products sold. And if I do treatments to the value of £800 or over a month I also get 10% of that too. Its quite good for me considering I was only on £4.60 at my old garden centre job!!!Lol
 

BABSann

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I have just got back from work so will answer some of your points and ask a few.You mention your family suffering,how do you think the therapist and his/her therapist suffer with a min wage coming into the house?

You talk about millions of people who settle for minimum wage and that they would be devastated that I undervalue their earnings.I would actually think they would 100% agree with what I have said.

Minimum wage is not acceptable in the instance that you rely so much on your staff,i.e us therapists to keep you in business.

As for your question regarding paying my therapists if I could only afford a minimum wage when I get a salon.

Well this is how I would do things.First I would not be employing any staff at all,I would have to be a one man band,then when I have a good client base I would look at employing 1 member of staff,this way I could and would pay her what she actually deserves.

I want a good,loyal therapist,I dont want her feeling disgruntled about her wages and moaning to clients and friends about the crappy wage she/he gets.There will be incentives for her as well.I.e commission on goods she sells and treatments.

I suggest Jom that we therapists are speaking from experience.You havn't long been a salon owner or employer,why not listen to us,stop taking everything so personally and maybe actually you may learn something.

I along with many other of the therapists who have replied to you have more experience than you or your girlfriend in this industry(please dont take personally)Maybe we are telling you as it is. Given that your girlfriend worked for 3 years and has a level 3 as I do,she knows exactly what we are all saying.Its a hard slog at college,and what for a minimum wage.I dont think so.

You will have to be on a minimum wage when you start your gym instructor cause because you are new to the job and inexperienced,we are not so why should we have to settle for crappy wages?.
 

1999judy

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I have just got back from work so will answer some of your points and ask a few.You mention your family suffering,how do you think the therapist and his/her therapist suffer with a min wage coming into the house?

You talk about millions of people who settle for minimum wage and that they would be devastated that I undervalue their earnings.I would actually think they would 100% agree with what I have said.

Minimum wage is not acceptable in the instance that you rely so much on your staff,i.e us therapists to keep you in business.

As for your question regarding paying my therapists if I could only afford a minimum wage when I get a salon.

Well this is how I would do things.First I would not be employing any staff at all,I would have to be a one man band,then when I have a good client base I would look at employing 1 member of staff,this way I could and would pay her what she actually deserves.

I want a good,loyal therapist,I dont want her feeling disgruntled about her wages and moaning to clients and friends about the crappy wage she/he gets.There will be incentives for her as well.I.e commission on goods she sells and treatments.

I suggest Jom that we therapists are speaking from experience.You havn't long been a salon owner or employer,why not listen to us,stop taking everything so personally and maybe actually you may learn something.

I along with many other of the therapists who have replied to you have more experience than you or your girlfriend in this industry(please dont take personally)Maybe we are telling you as it is. Given that your girlfriend worked for 3 years and has a level 3 as I do,she knows exactly what we are all saying.Its a hard slog at college,and what for a minimum wage.I dont think so.

You will have to be on a minimum wage when you start your gym instructor cause because you are new to the job and inexperienced,we are not so why should we have to settle for crappy wages?.
Yes I have to agree that this is the ideal thing to do.
As it is there's only me in this business so there's only me to worry about, when things are really busy at Christmas and in the summer I think OMG I'm loaded.
Then I think... wait for January and February, put money away for the rainy days.
The point I made earlier was that when you get to a certain stage and have done X amount of training you won't go to a salon and work for a minimum wage if you can help it.
You will remain a one man band unless you decide to buy a salon.
I would rather work all the hours God sends at the moment to make this work for me.
Over Christmas I felt exhausted, but to know that business was going so well kept me going.
 

littlepinkfairy

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well all i can say is good luck jom, you are gunna need it!
 

bombini

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People WANT to work in salons - most I have met certainly don't do it for the money anyway.
Yes people want to work in salons how many get told that they will be working on minimum wage on their first day at college ?

Hardly any therapists that i trained with are still working in the industry as the money is so crap.

I used to work my ass off doing hours of massage for £4.50ph & the client paid £40.00 i used to resent getting paid peanuts whilst the salon was raking it in. Then when i handed my notice in to go to a spa paying £5.90 an hour the manager said it wasn't all about the money !! It is when you've got a £200 car loan & £30 a month to chiropractor because you've got back pains from doing endless massage!!

My boyfriend used to work as a fitness instructor on the same money as me & he doesn't see beauty as a hard job, i always say once you've done an 8 hour shift of treatments then you will know what its really like, maybe you could train to do beauty & see if you think minimum wage is adequate ?
 

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