Shellac shrinking back from free edge, Doug Schoon says gel shrinks?

[manystyle]

I recently read in doug schoon book that gel shrinks after a few hrs of application. could it be that I am applying it to thin and thus the shrinking occurs afterwards. I know shellac is not a gel but still.

Hi everyone. first Ill start by saying that I have taken the master painter class as a last resort. since I had already taken a few shellac classes BUT IM STILL HAVING THE SAME PROBLEM. I have all the cnd system and follow the steps exactly... read many suggestion online and watched tooo many videos.

My problem is that I am seeing that free edge after a few hours or after one day of shellac application. i was told to file that edge BUT A CND educator said DO NOT FILE IT! i do not want my clients to file at home either so please dont suggest this ! My friend (another nail tech) has more clients than me since all her shellac is perfect after 3 weeks! I on the other hand have seen my clients coming back with that free edge showing... it has bothered some people.. others not ...and others chip a little since the free edge was showing

It looks like that edge shrunk!! BUT I make sure its sealed with base coat, color and top coat. It looks perfect once I am done with the application but after a few hrs the edge start showing on me or ill notice it the following day.

My friend (the other tech) said I am doing it too thin:|. she does it tooo thick for my taste. she NEVER cleans her brush .. so imagine her thickness! she does calgel gel nails also n shes been doing nails for many years she strongly believes that shellac should not be thin like I do.

recently I read in doug schoon book that gel shrinks after a few hrs of application. could it be that I am applying it to thin and thus the shrinking occurs afterwards. I know shellac is not a gel but still.

just today I did my nails with asphalt. as we all know dark colors are harder to apply as many times the color can pull from the edge if applied too thick. so I apply 3 thin layers on dark colors usually. BUT today I did 2. a little thicker.

what do u think? will thin applications cause that edge to show?

 

[manystyle]

ooh and when i say gel shrinks I mean it shrinks to the point that its adhering to the natural nail. its part of the process to attach to the natural nail. thats why some people after acrylics or gels they can feel a tightening sensation

 

[busybee32]

If you and out clients are using harsh chemicals it can effect the shellac, as long as you know yourself that you did all the steps correctly and the seal was there before they walked out of the salon the it is something thatbtheybare doing with their hands.
Yours will be acetone and other products that you will be using on a daily basis.
And yes it is perfectly safe to file that edge of with nothing lower than a 240 grit file. Your educator would not have advisedly to do this if that was not the case.
Jen x

 

[syncage]

when you scrub fresh do you make sure to swipe the free edge?

 

[manystyle]

thanks for your responses. yes I use scrub fresh and swipe that edge with each layer. I was told by a cnd educator that if it looks sealed when done then its not my fault also. that it can be the clients fault because of the chemicals. I do believe acetone damages mine.
BUT i find it impossible to believe that all my clients are having the same problem. I know its me but I dont know what. its been 2 years of trying to figure it out but havent had any luck.

It really sucks since I do LOVE SHELLAC and would love to know what I am doing wrong. my job is always at risk because of this. i feel that any moment ill be kicked out been working in the salon since may.

thanks

 

[abi326]

Are u using scrub fresh after every layer? Scrub fresh is only used at the beginning of the treatment to dyhydrate the nail plate make sure u clean the free edge as well. After that leave scrub fresh well alone When u are working with dark colours apply them thinly as they have a higher pigment and can shrink
Do not ever wipe between layers u need that sticky layer to connect with your next layer until u get to the top coat
After completing treatment use gel inhibitor remover
And apply solar oil
Hope this helps

 

[StephR]

Can you show us a picture if what you meam because it sounds like normal wear and tear. I always have a tiny white area at the top if my nails after a few days where the seal has worn down. I always file it so I can see it because it does annoy me but its nothing I've done its just normal wear and tear. If you've done all those classes then you must be doing it right or your educator would not have passed you x

 

[sugar&spice]

Are you capping the free edge beaut x

 

[syncage]

thanks for your responses. yes I use scrub fresh and swipe that edge with each layer. I was told by a cnd educator that if it looks sealed when done then its not my fault also. that it can be the clients fault because of the chemicals. I do believe acetone damages mine.
BUT i find it impossible to believe that all my clients are having the same problem. I know its me but I dont know what. its been 2 years of trying to figure it out but havent had any luck.

It really sucks since I do LOVE SHELLAC and would love to know what I am doing wrong. my job is always at risk because of this. i feel that any moment ill be kicked out been working in the salon since may.

thanks

I think you have misunderstood me as I was meaning when you scrub fresh do you make sure you wipe across the free edge so that you have cleansed + dehydrated the free edge.

 

[xxx]

It might be that the shellac wears away from the free edge if you type a lot, if your nails are longer? Just a suggestion xxx

 

['chelle]

Shellac IS a gel (or at the very least its a hybrid gel). Check the definition of a gel, then read the ingredients of shellac, oh and check the description on the MSDS sheets, it contains gel. All the hype about it not being a gel is false, and I dont even understand why it exists in the first place since its not a negative thing for it to be a gel either in whole or in part. This is why it shrinks back when it cures. Cap thoroughly and it should solve this.

 

[Rinn]

I recently read in doug schoon book that gel shrinks after a few hrs of application. could it be that I am applying it to thin and thus the shrinking occurs afterwards. I know shellac is not a gel but still.

Hi everyone. first Ill start by saying that I have taken the master painter class as a last resort. since I had already taken a few shellac classes BUT IM STILL HAVING THE SAME PROBLEM. I have all the cnd system and follow the steps exactly... read many suggestion online and watched tooo many videos.

My problem is that I am seeing that free edge after a few hours or after one day of shellac application. i was told to file that edge BUT A CND educator said DO NOT FILE IT! i do not want my clients to file at home either so please dont suggest this ! My friend (another nail tech) has more clients than me since all her shellac is perfect after 3 weeks! I on the other hand have seen my clients coming back with that free edge showing... it has bothered some people.. others not ...and others chip a little since the free edge was showing

It looks like that edge shrunk!! BUT I make sure its sealed with base coat, color and top coat. It looks perfect once I am done with the application but after a few hrs the edge start showing on me or ill notice it the following day.

My friend (the other tech) said I am doing it too thin:|. she does it tooo thick for my taste. she NEVER cleans her brush .. so imagine her thickness! she does calgel gel nails also n shes been doing nails for many years she strongly believes that shellac should not be thin like I do.

recently I read in doug schoon book that gel shrinks after a few hrs of application. could it be that I am applying it to thin and thus the shrinking occurs afterwards. I know shellac is not a gel but still.

just today I did my nails with asphalt. as we all know dark colors are harder to apply as many times the color can pull from the edge if applied too thick. so I apply 3 thin layers on dark colors usually. BUT today I did 2. a little thicker.

what do u think? will thin applications cause that edge to show?

Once you're doing everything corrrectly , whole system, capping etc I'd say the wearing away is because everybody uses their hands differently IMO that's why some have free edge wear and some don't.
Yours in probably like busybee said because of your daily use of acetone , your clients - it could be some are heavy handed , some use their nails as opposed to the pads of their fingers etc.
Think of how the soles of your shoes differ from your friends. You may have worn the heel down , she may have the left side wore down. Yet you both look like you walk the same way. It's the same with hands.

 

[Becky_simon]

Shellac IS a gel (or at the very least its a hybrid gel). Check the definition of a gel, then read the ingredients of shellac, oh and check the description on the MSDS sheets, it contains gel. All the hype about it not being a gel is false, and I dont even understand why it exists in the first place since its not a negative thing for it to be a gel either in whole or in part. This is why it shrinks back when it cures. Cap thoroughly and it should solve this.

Are you sure this is right? I thought it had similar properties of a gel but is infact a hybrid polish 'power polish' which is what makes it different from all the other Gel Polishes

 

[NancySyd]

Are you sure this is right? I thought it had similar properties of a gel but is infact a hybrid polish 'power polish' which is what makes it different from all the other Gel Polishes

No, it is a gel polish. "Power Polish" is a marketing term, designed to communicate the lasting power of Shellac. Check the MSDS, where you can't use marketing terms. Power Polish is accurate and very descriptive, but it has no meaning beyond advertising. And Shellac is not the only hybrid polish out there either. All of the gel polishes are different from each other - vitamin infused, no base coat, unique formulations, . Shellac is also a unique product. None of this is said to disparage Shellac which is an amazing product, just to place it properly in the gel polish category, which should not be a problem because as 'Chelle says, theres nothing negative about being a gel.

 

[mum]

No, there is nothing wrong with a gel. However, Shellac is a 'hybrid'. Yes, it does have gel In it, it also has solvents similar to a traditional polish. I believe CND changed the name from 'hybrid' (which was accurate) to a 'power polish' as understanding of the word 'hybrid' was causing problems.

I disagree that all gel polishes are different. Many, not all, are exactly the same from the same manufacturer. There is nothing wrong with this either. Different brands, different colours, different customer support, training etc.

Some gel polish brands seem to be making 'no solvents' a marketing plus! Why? Nothing wrong with solvents either!

An understanding of the chemistry of nail products lets you see through the marketing hype and get to the facts.

 

[NancySyd]

No, there is nothing wrong with a gel. However, Shellac is a 'hybrid'. Yes, it does have gel In it, it also has solvents similar to a traditional polish. I believe CND changed the name from 'hybrid' (which was accurate) to a 'power polish' as understanding of the word 'hybrid' was causing problems.

Yes, but it is still a gel polish, a hybrid gel polish (like others)

I disagree that all gel polishes are different. Many, not all, are exactly the same from the same manufacturer. There is nothing wrong with this either. Different brands, different colours, different customer support, training etc.

That was the difference to which I alluded. I think those differences are why there are so many brands. Even if the product itself is chemically the same, there are differences in packaging, marketing,training etc. that make for a different product.

Some gel polish brands seem to be making 'no solvents' a marketing plus! Why? Nothing wrong with solvents either!
An understanding of the chemistry of nail products lets you see through the marketing hype and get to the facts.

The reason that "no solvents" is seen as a plus is two-fold. The first is that solvents are a major reason why SOGP are considered flammable and therefore require special shipping. At least one manufacturer that does not have solvents in its product has successfully petitioned the USPS to allow normal shipping for its product. Secondly, a few "hybrid" products had problems with the solvent evaporating and the polish drying up. Gelac was an example of that and it was discontinued and did some substantial damage to the manufacturer. CND Shellac has not had that problem due to how it uses solvents.

But all this gets back to the OP's concern, which is that some techniques that work with other gel polishes will often work with Shellac and some won't. And that some issues, like edge wear is common to all gel polishes.

 

[mum]

There is a difference between shrinking and wearing. Gel polishes are more prone to shrinking as can be seen from the slight roundness at the free edge. During application there is often a 'pull back' before curing, especially if applied too thickly. 'Pulling' the gel over free edge and applying thinly will help to avoid this. Shrinking does occur during curing and, again, thinness will help with this. The hybrids allow for this to be less noticeable (some don't mind this at all, others do)

Wearing, on the other hand will occur with all just like it does with traditional polish. If the seal on the natural nail is good it shouldn't be a problem, just feels a bit sharper and not as 'sealed' as it was.

@NancySyd I don't believe the marketing that 'no solvents' as a USP is for the reasons you describe. It is far more suggestive than that. Traditional polishes have been around for 80 years and have been dealt with. Shipping issues are a manufacturers/suppliers problem and not the end users. As for evaporation, again, this has been dealt with for years. Hybrid users should understand that caps should be replaced properly and shaking is essential (just like everyone has done with polish). Maybe that is why Shellac, for example, is sold in smaller bottles to help with this.

 

[NancySyd]

@NancySyd I don't believe the marketing that 'no solvents' as a USP is for the reasons you describe. It is far more suggestive than that. Traditional polishes have been around for 80 years and have been dealt with. Shipping issues are a manufacturers/suppliers problem and not the end users. As for evaporation, again, this has been dealt with for years. Hybrid users should understand that caps should be replaced properly and shaking is essential (just like everyone has done with polish). Maybe that is why Shellac, for example, is sold in smaller bottles to help with this.

I don't think you get my point (probably because I didn't say it well...). Because no solvents is a positive for manufacturers, they make it a positive for consumers. As for evaporation, Gelac, even handled properly, dried up; it wasn't a matter of handling errors. Clearly there was something wrong with their formulation, since it was only a significant problem for Gelac, other hybrids did not exhibit the problem.

 

[manystyle]

I think you have misunderstood me as I was meaning when you scrub fresh do you make sure you wipe across the free edge so that you have cleansed + dehydrated the free edge.

No syncage. i wrote it wrong. lol:wink2:. I only scrubfresh in the beginning before the base then I apply the colors making sure i seal each layer.
sorry for the confusion

 

[manystyle]

Can you show us a picture if what you meam because it sounds like normal wear and tear. I always have a tiny white area at the top if my nails after a few days where the seal has worn down. I always file it so I can see it because it does annoy me but its nothing I've done its just normal wear and tear. If you've done all those classes then you must be doing it right or your educator would not have passed you x

great idea! ill have one picture tomorrow up. I did my nails in asphalt a few days ago i can already see that edge :Scared:... but i feel better with everyones responses. But still why can't my applications be as perfect my friends applications when clients come back.... that edge hunts me