Staff problems!

[littlemissvee]

First posting on here so please be gentle! And its a long one! Sorry!

I have a small salon and recently found a member of staff to be not only poaching clients but also advertising her own business, both of which I have clear evidence of in the form of messages and saved screen shots. We then gave her a verbal warning and explained that it clearly states in her contract that she must not be doing any outside work etc etc.

It came to light when we asked her to cover a days holiday to which she said that she couldnt do a full days cover as she had a private client in.

We then, the next day gave her a written warning, also to back up what was said at the meeting and to give her 24 hours to take all of her advertising down as it was clearly in direct competition with us and totally unacceptable.

I found that she a few days on was still advertising, so I then gave her another copy of her contract which I highlighted the relevant sections to remind her that she shouldnt be doing what she is doing.

The final straw came when I saw yet more advertising and after feeling that I had given her more than a fair chance and ample opportunity to remove the offending adverts she went ahead and did it again, so we had no choice but to sack her with immediate effect. This was incredibly unpleasant and certainly not what I signed up for!

Next thing we know, we have a letter and forms from a tribunal. I am mortified to find that she has written a statement claiming all sorts about me nothing of which is sustatiated by any evidence whatsoever. I feel it is a total defamation of character and feel like doing some sort of counter claim as I feel I am a decent and honest individual and worry that these claims will tarnish my own reputation as an individual.:cry:

She was up until the point where we found out was a valued member of staff. I also feel I was very good to her so its a real kick in the teeth.:sad:

To make matters worse, another employee, (who im sure they both still speak) has been mentioning her mobile work to the new employee and has also said she is advertising and where in front of me, I dont know what she is playing at!!! I have also noticed that her client base is dwindling, luckily she only work 2 days per week! But this is still not great!

Whats your advice and what would you do in this situation? Or have you been in a similar situation? Any advice would be greatly received.

Sorry its sooo long!

 

[tillymay]

I had a similar case ... The only thing is before the letter from tribunal ...I had 2/3 phone calls from ACAS , letters from her lawyer , that's who puts in , just make sure it is genuine letter it seems a little quick to receive it from the tribunal services and no other correspondens from any one xx

 

[jazmine]

I would go to citizens advice an see where you stand, keep copies of all interaction and always be polite of you speak to her directly. Don't rise to her petty games.

A bit of a different situation but the first salon my mum bought came with staff- two months in she found all or them apart from the Saturday girl were taking products and ha their hands in the till. It was a tough decision and my mums a real softie but she got rid of them all!

She has a contract and she broke it you went through the motions and proceeded in the correct manner with regards to warnings so I doubt she ha a leg to stand on.

A nasty situation indeed but hopefully one you will not come across to often. If also call a staff meeting an ask your staff if they have any concerns regarding their contract, again no need to single anyone out but it might break any atmosphere that's developing.


Good luck

 

[littlemissvee]

Thanks you for your advice guys.

Ive had two recorded letters from her prior to receiving the tribunal forms threatening to take further action. She also says she sent a third which I didn't receive. Im surprised I didnt receive something firstly from ACAS if she had such complaints?

I did contact ACAS myself to see what we could do as I was under the impression they are supposed to give advice. They then sent round someone from Peninsular, which on the face of it sounded great. But this was not ACAS themselves and in effect they sent a salesman round to sell me a service, so I'm now a bit hacked off with them!

 

[AcidPerm]

Speak to a lawyer or if you're a member of a trade organisation, speak to one of their legal advisers before responding to the tribunal paperwork.

Just because she has signed a contract stipulating 'no outside work' it may not be enforceable. For instance, if someone is employed p/t, and they need to earn more money just to manage on and to pay bills etc, it's unlikely that such a term in a contract will be deemed fair.

You can't just insert clauses willy nilly and argue that because the employee signed them, they're binding. ALWAYS get advice when drafting contracts.

If doing outside work is the main reason she was sacked, you could come unstuck.

Openly poaching clients in the salon is totally different to working privately on your days off. You may have inadvertently mixed the two situations and that could be your undoing.

 

[littlemissvee]

I totally understand what you are saying AcidPerm but we were building up the business and wanted to offer her more hours. Not only that, she was in fact advertising in the same places and websites as us. I would say this constitutes as being in direct competition. I would understand if she went and got herself a job in Tesco as that would not be in direct competition with us.

 

[littlemissvee]

Just out of interest, has anyone actually used Peninsular?

 

[sarahlou09]

Openly poaching clients in the salon is totally different to working privately on your days off. You may have inadvertently mixed the two situations and that could be your undoing.

I totally agree on that as you know most hairdressers do a bit of hair on the side i.e friends & family. But poaching clients that belong to the salon is a NO NO :sad:

 

[taggyboy]

Unfortunately salon owners are faced with this more and more. NHF do stipulate in their contracts about poaching and working within a certain area but its such a small area covered. They also back this up with a strong legal team. So contracts are enforceable.

Can I ask where your contracts came from and is your salon hair/beauty or both.

The problem we often see is these staff members, when they decide to get a salon and start to employ staff bring in the same guidelines. They want to protect their business as you are trying to do. There is a lot of mis-information around contracts and a lot depends on whether you are the employee or employer, as each party would see things differently.

I would certainly get some legal advice and although not easy try not to stress. You have followed procedures.

Some people have no morals or have any respect. At the end of the day you were paying her a wage, she is disrespectful if she is poaching clients.

Chin up x

 

[sarahlou09]

I totally understand what you are saying AcidPerm but we were building up the business and wanted to offer her more hours. Not only that, she was in fact advertising in the same places and websites as us. I would say this constitutes as being in direct competition. I would understand if she went and got herself a job in Tesco as that would not be in direct competition with us.

Can i ask where was she doing the hair outside of your building??

 

[Misschatterbox]

I have had this a couple of times in the past with staff members and totally understand how you feel, its awful but it does leave you feeling like you cant totally trust anyone. Most contracts arent worth the paper they are written on unfortunately as it can usually cost you more to do anything about it! I did find acas very helpful though to help me resolve any issues I had with ex staff members so I would recommend contacting them xx

Sent from my GT-I9300 using SalonGeek

 

[hayleygirl1]

I feel for you hun, I had a similar situation in my salon apart from we had a problem with absences, and not done the tribunal bit. Its not a nice thing to do.

If you have done the right procedures ie verbal then written warnings and stipulated in the letters about breach of contract then I would say you have done it right.
Being the employer is a tricky business and sometimes you have to take that risk. I probably would of done the same thing especially as poaching would be a breach of any employees contract.
I would check with tribunal people to see if it is genuine claim as the interent does have a vast amount of resources to hand that can be copied to make look official.

Also keep any correspondence that you have had with her past and present.

Not sure if this helps you a fat sight but chin up. We are here to help xx


Sent from my GT-P5110 using SalonGeek

 

[littlemissvee]

Thanks again for all your replys, makes me feel reassured knowing other people have been through similar things.

For anyone who is doing mobile hairdressing on the side, I totally understand why you would want to top up your salary etc. There is such a thing as being discreet. And by that I mean a) Not poaching clients, b) Not mentioning your mobile work to salon clients, c) Not mentioning your business to your boss unless you wish to ask for permission to carry out private work, d) And definitely not advertising, let alone on the same websites.

 

[FileandPolish]

Just out of interest, has anyone actually used Peninsular?

Not used but have met with them. I am a qualified HR specialist, they are unnecessary and very expensive tying you into to long contracts of 3 years plus; which is unrealistic for small to medium sized businesses.

Many local solicitors usually have a more cost effective offering should you need it and most offer a free business health check too to review your current contracts. Another alternative is a company called the HR Dept, they are a franchise firm with local representatives, also very good x

 

[littlemissvee]

Not used but have met with them. I am a qualified HR specialist, they are unnecessary and very expensive tying you into to long contracts of 3 years plus; which is unrealistic for small to medium sized businesses.

Many local solicitors usually have a more cost effective offering should you need it and most offer a free business health check too to review your current contracts. Another alternative is a company called the HR Dept, they are a franchise firm with local representatives, also very good x

Thanks very much for your advice :biggrin:
Although the guy was quite helpful with his information with regards to our case, I definitely did not like the idea of being tied into a 3 or 5 year contract as in this climate, you never know what is going to happen!

We are off to see a local solicitor tomorrow, so hopefully we'll be able to get the wheels in motion and get the situation sorted quickly and efficiently as I could really do without this unnecessary stress right now :sad:

Thanks again x

 

[pinkthistle]

I had a similar situation...cost me lawyers fees but nothing else as the tribunal agreed with me. I was told that any no working within 5 mile rule or similar was common in contracts it's pretty much not worth the paper it's written on. However you do not have to allow someone to stay on your premises Who is openly harming the business by advertising to clients etc....it's pretty scary and worrying going to a tribunal but they see this all the time and can see the real victim. If you had witnesses to any of your warnings or staff overheard her telling clients make sure they give statements.

On the flip side, you can't really expect someone working part time to not want to boost their earnings....but it's nice to be nice and by that I mean don't rub your bosses nose in it lol

 

[littlemissvee]

Thanks for your reply. I have been to the solicitors this morning and we have nothing to worry about. Although annoyingly, we still have to answer to her claims and go to tribunal. Its obvious to any outsider that any claims on her part are purely fabricated and have no evidence to them. I think at the end of the day, she was caught out and is one of those people who thinks the world owes her a living!

No, I agree with you on working part time although it has to be fair on both parts. A little respect to the person who is employing you and paying your wages goes a long way in my opinion!

 

[Tomme]

Thanks for your reply. I have been to the solicitors this morning and we have nothing to worry about. Although annoyingly, we still have to answer to her claims and go to tribunal. Its obvious to any outsider that any claims on her part are purely fabricated and have no evidence to them. I think at the end of the day, she was caught out and is one of those people who thinks the world owes her a living!

No, I agree with you on working part time although it has to be fair on both parts. A little respect to the person who is employing you and paying your wages goes a long way in my opinion!

Glad you have it half sorted now. Maybe put in a radius clause into your contracts. And something about friends and family being fine (no way would I expect my friends and family to pay full price at a salon), but that any other work must be x miles away and advertising may not be done x y and places. Xoxo

 

[nikkib]

I had a similar situation...cost me lawyers fees but nothing else as the tribunal agreed with me. I was told that any no working within 5 mile rule or similar was common in contracts it's pretty much not worth the paper it's written on. However you do not have to allow someone to stay on your premises Who is openly harming the business by advertising to clients etc....it's pretty scary and worrying going to a tribunal but they see this all the time and can see the real victim. If you had witnesses to any of your warnings or staff overheard her telling clients make sure they give statements.

On the flip side, you can't really expect someone working part time to not want to boost their earnings....but it's nice to be nice and by that I mean don't rub your bosses nose in it lol

.

Certain restrictive covenants are perfectly legal as long as they are not excessive i.e. if you leave said employer you cannot open a salon within 5 miles for 6 months is perfectly acceptable however the same but for 6 years would be challenged in court.

 

[Cinabun]

Get a decent solicitor. I had a similar problem with a staff member poaching clients while still working for me and stupidly I didn't have contracts in place at the time. He took me through everything step by step and because I was still freaking out a bit he actually sent me part of a law text where it stipulates poaching is instant dismissal regardless of contract or no contract. I was very lucky as one of the clients actually let me take a written statement. As long as you have evidence and can back everything up I would try not to stress but a good lawyer really makes the difference! She tried threatening tribunals but knew she didn't stand a chance. She even spent a lot of time in town catching clients and telling them how bad I had been. One of which came in to make a point at which I said well in this day and age if I didn't have evidence she wouldn't have lost her job! Client couldn't argue with that lol and still comes in to us.

The same guy then custom made my contract for a small fee ( I thought it would be more) which now states poaching clients is instant dismissal. I also have a clause stating my therapists cannot work from home!

I don't think much would surprise me with staff now lol good luck