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Ventilation/Extraction

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myallop

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Hallo folks,
First of all, this is the first time we have looked at this site (and very impressive it is too), Jackie Jefford was down in our studio doing some NVQ work with our girls and recommended it to us for our problem, which is as follows.
My wife and business partner own a nail studio in a shopping centre.
We have recently had a H&S inspection which we did quite well in but we were told we need to consider better ventilation, in particular with regard to "changes of air".
The studio only has one outside wall up on the first floor so a "full-on" extraction system would probably be very expensive and as we only have less than a year left on our lease it is something we really don't want to spend out too much on.
The "doorway" does not have a door, we simply raise a metal shutter so air can move between the mall and studio.
We have seen the desktop dust extraction systems, which having done a search on this site don't seem to be brilliant but would probably be some help but it is the "change of air" thing that is giving us a problem.
Jackie said she thought she remembered something about a studio in a shopping centre in Glasgow that had a similar problem with H&S inspectorate.
Anybody remember the case or have any other good advice for us.

Thanks,
Mark .Y.
 

lindag

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Mark there are little fans you can buy that suck the air in clean it and spit it back out, they are about €150 each and about the size of you hand very neat and tidy I think Beauty Express do them check out the contact link in the site. I find that if you put one on each desk its perfect and as they are so small they wont get in the way but the only problem if the salon has ten nails desk thats ten fans so it could work out to be expensive but if there is only two or three desks its not bad.
 

naturalnails

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Obviously the best thing is the extraction straight out type of system but as you are renting and have less than 12 months then this is maybe not the time to look at that. Maybe you could find some type of system which is transferrable for the short term - ie. some form of table top system - not sure what the likes of air purifiers would do.

When you move and have maybe a longer lease then would be the time to look at a more permanent system.
 

The Geek

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There is a project I am working on right now that may help quite a bit. If you want to PM me in about a month, I may have something that will sort you out ;)

Sorry... cant say more till then :D
 

gracy

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aw sam you drive us nuts lol
 

myallop

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OK folks, thanks for help so far, we look forward to your "project" Sam.
Have seen the little desk-top fuminators in NSI catalogue and guess we will buy a couple of those. I'm not sure how effective they will be but it will show we are trying to address their concerns.
Still don't have a clue what we will do about the "change of air" requirements.
One other thing - does anybody have copies of "Risk Assessments" they have done for Creative products. It was another thing we were picked up for by H&S inspector. I was planning on producing one for filing tips and one for applying L&P enhancements as I don't think anything else in the studio warrants it.
Any thoughts would be appreciated as I need to do them next week when I am off work.

Thanks,
Mark .Y.
 

naturalnails

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Check in Site Stuff and industry links as there is a link there to buy Fuminators direct rather than from NSI - slightly cheaper LOL.

I have one and by the filters state, it certainly collects quite a bit of dust.
 

Cathie!

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What is 'change of air'?
 

liza smith

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hi mark
i had this problem 2 years ago.
i researched the problem extensively, & the only long term solution is extraction ventilation.
this is installed by professionals & for a 5 table salon it cost's £2,500, plus any work needed on the flooring :eek:
as you may b moving within the year, this really isn't a viable option.
the local authorities have been very patient with me, i was in the same position as i relocated in march this year.
i will b fitting a system in my new premises, but, i hasten to add i'm all ears about mr. geeks project!
speak to the authorities about time span, say it will take a while to research all the possibilities.
mayb mention that there is a large trade show in sept, & u will source a solution then.
if they give u time, then drag it out till then .
if not, get some portable extractors for now untill u move.
good luck, liza
 

liza smith

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cathy
a change of air means extracting the air ( & any vapours & dust) out of the room & fresh air being brought in.
blowing the air around with fans etc will only move it around, keeping the particles in the air that you breathe.
liza x
 

myallop

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OK, thanks very much everybody (particularly Lisa). I think that is about where I am at the moment, hadn't thought of the "show in September" line though - may have to use it.
Are we the only ones though that are having to do risk assessments for work in the studio - surely others must have had H&S inspections and been told to risk assess. We should really have a virtual "industry standard", in fact I'm surprised nobody from Creative has produced one.
Anyway, if anybody has done them and does not mind sharing them it would help us enormously.

Thanks,
Mark .Y.
 

liza smith

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in my opinion the authorities hit the biggest salons 1st, that's definatly what happened to me a few years ago.
the only reason they called on me was because a tenant in the same building as me complained about the smell of monomer. ( didn't stop him opening his office in the 1st place, considering we'd been in the building for 6 yrs before!)
after the original visit, when i'm sure the guy was going for his oscar, his performance reacting to the smell was that dramatic!, i had to endue 3 meetings with the envoirmental health, going over my risk assessmens, COSHH, & my health & safety policy :eek:
i had been to college full time to do hair & beauty therapy, i'd gained a distinction in my salon managment city & guilds; & not once had i been told that i was required by law to have a medical safety data sheet (msds) for every single product in my salon.
my salon was hairdressing, beauty, & nails.
i had to have a msds for EVERY make of nail enamel on my shelves, at that time we had (incl. nail art products) 55 diferent makes of product :eek:
add to that every hair & beauty product & we had 300+ products that we had to contact the wholesalers for.
it took, wait for it... 6 months to get everything together, some wholesalers didn't even know what i was talking about :?:
if you log onto the designer nails website (if you have an account with them), & click on msds a list will come up of all the products. click on each 1 that you use and download each msds & print them off.
if you need any more specific help with this matter let me know.
liza xx
 

myallop

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Thanks for that Liza. It was the H&S inspector lady who was the drama queen here. When she first came in and started to talk to me she made a big deal of getting a tissue out, wiping her nose and her eyes and complaining that the smell was terrible. I told her it didn't seem too bad to me and she said that perhaps it was because I was used to it. I pointed out that we have dozens of new customers each week and I had never seen any of them "struck down" like she appeared to be - funnily enough she seemed to hardly notice it after that and didn't comment on it again.
I think you are right about the size of the studio as well, we only do nails but we have six stations plus a pedicure room and I think we were the easiest target. I got into a bit of a row with her (yes, I know you shouldn't) about the studios that use MMA, she admitted that as long as they can put a risk assessment in front of her she is happy for them to use it even though she knows it is harmful. I told her that was OK then, you being quite happy to let people use products you know are harmful whilst getting on the back of people who go our of their way to buy quality products to protect their clients (I guess as it is not technically illegal there isn't a great deal she could do but she was really getting on my wick by then !!).
I would really appreciate a copy of anything you have as risk assessments for the use of the products Liza, just the monomer and polymer really. I told her I didn't think we needed anything for the use of nail polish, remover, manicure lotions etc as they are such low (or no) risk. I have started to download the MSDS from CND site so that side of it is OK.

Thanks,
Mark .Y.
 

geeg

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myallop said:
I would really appreciate a copy of anything you have as risk assessments for the use of the products Liza, just the monomer and polymer really. I told her I didn't think we needed anything for the use of nail polish, remover, manicure lotions etc as they are such low (or no) risk. I have started to download the MSDS from CND site so that side of it is OK.
Funnily enough ... you would be more at risk breathing the vapours from your nail enamel and remover at high levels, than the monomer!! Remember the smell iof monomer liquid is not an indication that it is unsafe. Some of the worlds most dangerous vapours have a pleasent sweet smell.

The smell of monomer is apparent at a level as low as 5ppm (parts per million) the recommended safe level is way higher than that, more than 100ppm. You would have to have a seriously bad problem (like spilling a whole bottle of monomer) to even approach those levels. The fact that the lady did not care for the smell has nothing to do with its safety.

Wouldn't you think these inspectors would know that???
 

myallop

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That's what I thought Gigi, I work in an oil refinery myself and H2S (Hydrogen Sulphide) has a very strong odour at 5ppm, however at 170ppm you can't smell it because it kills the "smell organs/nerves" (forgotten the correct term for them !!) and at that level it is pretty lethal.

Anyway, to bring you all up to date, I phoned the lady this afternoon and explained that we would get a couple of the little fumigators for the desks and a fan to blow the air out of the doorway - she seemed pretty happy with that.

Still have had no offers for risk assessments on filing, use of L&P etc - is everybody really saying that they have not had to do them ??

Mark .Y.
 

groovynails

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The Nail Geek said:
There is a project I am working on right now that may help quite a bit. If you want to PM me in about a month, I may have something that will sort you out ;)

Sorry... cant say more till then :D

hey a month nearly up ,can u tell us yet :?:
 

Nickie@Nailmania-Limited

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Hi Sam

As I am in the process of opening a new salon and trying to make sure I leave no stone unturned, is there any further news on you TOP SECRET project you mentioned about 6 weeks ago? I am looking into extraction/ventilation of a very small space so any information would be great.

The Nail Geek said:
There is a project I am working on right now that may help quite a bit. If you want to PM me in about a month, I may have something that will sort you out ;)

Sorry... cant say more till then :D
Many thanks

Toodle Pip
 

Urban Geek

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Nickie - I pm'd Sam yesterday asking him the same question but he is still working on things as said it may be a few months before he can update us.
 

BeachBabe

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Any news on this yet Sam?
 

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