A Framed Website????

SalonGeek

Help Support SalonGeek:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Seanny

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2004
Messages
1,249
Reaction score
176
Location
Dublin
Frames - A framed website - what does it mean? I keep hearing its bad for search engines and so I should avoid it, how do I do that?

Ok, we're not gonna go all technogeek here, I'm just gonna explain in the simplest terms possible what Frames are and why you should avoid using them.

First of all, when you start building your website, you'll normally start building it according to your own personal likes, dislikes, colour schemes, nice pics, proper wording, promo logos from Creative, EzFlow or whoever. Great, so far so good, then someone else will come along, maybe your mates, maybe other geeks letting you know that certain things dont look as good as you thought they did when viewed in another browser or at another screen resolution, so you change that to try and suit most tastes, most browsers and most screen resolutions. This is what you normally do, right? No?? This is what you should be doing!!

Everyone still tagging along? Good this is where it gets really interesting!!

When building your site, you also need to make sure that the search engines find your site attractive, ie, worthy of inclusion in their search results. Surprise surprise, the search engines dont give a damn what your site actually looks like, thats worth repeating, the physical appearance of your site is of ZERO importance to the search engines. They are only interested in one thing, your content....primarily your text. If they CANNOT find that content, you can kiss goodbye to the search results cos your site will never be in them, plain and simple.

So....when building our site, with what we've discussed above, we need to design and build for two types of visitor, the human kind and the search engine kind. Keep that in mind from here on in, we are designing our site for two types of visitor, human and robot. The human kind sees our site obviously as we ourselves see it, pretty colours, text, nail galleries, fancy designs, etc etc. The robot sees text content, no colours, no pictures, no fancy designs, just your text.

So far so good, we're starting to realize that we need to think bilaterally (on two fronts) when building our site, and so long as we do that, we'll be fine.


HOWEVER.... if we employ the use of Frames in our site, we'll preserve the physical appearance of our site but DENY the content of our site for the search engines. The site will look EXACTLY the same to us humans but the search engines wont find anything of note, rest assured they'll leave your site and most likely will never return. Is that what you want? Of course not. Why then would anyone use Frames? The simple answer is there is no good reason to use them, but some people use them by accident when building sites with website builder software, Frontpage, etc, simply because they dont know what they're at, thats forgiveable, but no less damaging for your new website. The main reason though that Frames are used on websites is because someone has built a site with a free provider (say Freewebs) and then some other provider has offered them a Free (or very cheap) domain name to use with their free site. So instead of of www.freewebs.angelasnails.com they now have Angela's Modern Nail Studio .

The site looks exactly the same and the web address looks like a professional one all for free???? Its almost too good to be true? Well actually, it is too good to be true, more often than not, your site now resides in a Frame....forever excluded from the search engines. DISASTER!!!!

I guess by now you know that Frames are mega bad, yeah? Anyone want to see what a framed site looks like? I've got a super site (a site I love) that has been framed and it pains me that it will never reach the audience it deserves to reach because of those Frames.
 
Seanny you are a darling. I get that, very easy to understand, thank you.
And yes please would like to see the afore mentioned site
 
Last edited:
You know Seanny...I had never though of that before :rolleyes: And now that you mention it, it makes perfect sense...because the search engine will never be able to see past the 'frame' to the true 'meat' of the site!

KUDOS!!
 
wooooooah hang on! blonde alert!

you say that if you use something like freewebs that will have frames, but then if it goes to a .co.uk address (for free?) that also has frames................


sorry for being a bit dim, am I reading it wrong? could someone explain that last bit again to me please? thanx xxx
 
wooooooah hang on! blonde alert!

you say that if you use something like freewebs that will have frames, but then if it goes to a .co.uk address (for free?) that also has frames................


sorry for being a bit dim, am I reading it wrong? could someone explain that last bit again to me please? thanx xxx


ooooooh is it just that the domain name will have changed, but the frames will still be there, hence making your site unsearchable?
 
No, I'm just using Freewebs as an example, it could be any domain name provider. If in doubt, always ask your Host specifically before you make any changes re domain names if it will result in your site being Framed. If the answer is yes, find a new host.
 
ooooooh is it just that the domain name will have changed, but the frames will still be there, hence making your site unsearchable?

I think the problem is that the site where you buy the cheap domain name from will normally do "web forwarding" for you if you don't buy hosting from them too - there are normally two ways of them doing this.

The first is where you go to http://www.mynicewebsite.co.uk/ or whatever and then the ISP's web server immediately sends a re-direct message back to your browser, so it goes to http://www.mynicewebsite.freewebs.com/ or wherever - but you see http://www.mynicewebsite.freewebs.com/ in your browser bar (which doesn't look quite as nice or professional as http://www.mynicewebsite.co.uk/).

The second approach uses frames (which incidentally were "deprecated" years ago) - the ISP returns some HTML for http://www.mynicewebsite.co.uk/ which just has a single Frame in it - but it tells the browser to put the content from http://www.mynicewebsite.freewebs.com/ in the content of that Frame.

So you get http://www.mynicewebsite.co.uk/ in the browser's address bar (which looks nice and funky) - but it will always say that, wherever you are on your site - whether you are on http://www.mynicewebsite.freewebs.com/index.html or http://www.mynicewebsite.freewebs.com/gallery.html

And the problem with search engines is that the content that they will read is on http://www.mynicewebsite.freewebs.com/ (which doesn't tend to be as high up on the search engine rankings as a dedicated domain e.g. http://www.mynicewebsite.co.uk/) and you also won't get as much benefit by having your mates to link to http://www.mynicewebsite.co.uk/ because the search engine will just see the frame there that the ISP sent back - not your nice content!
 
Wow, we've got some interest, thanks guys. :)

Ok, this is the difference between a Framed and a non-framed site. I'm going to give you two links to open, the first is a website devoted to a particular breed of dog in Lancashire. Its absolutely chocca with super information, help, advice, first aid for dogs....too much to list here, you'll see for yourself when you get there.


Open the following link in a new window (hold down 'Shift' when clicking and don't forget to come back here lol) - Index


Good, you're back. See? I told you there was lots of fantastic info there. That's the original 'unframed' site. The following link (again open it in a new window) www.lancashireheeler.info is the same site which now uses Frames. It looks identical, yeah? There's not a single thing you can pick out as being different, so then, what's the big deal?

Ok, here it is, the moment of truth, we're going to use our old friend The Search engine simulator. This gives us a good indication as to what the real search engines see when they crawl (or spider) a site.

Simulator (Search Engine Spider Simulator)

Enter the web addy for the unframed site into the box in the simulator and click on Submit, the simulator will spider the site like a search engine and show the results near enough instantly. Go on, do it yourself and see. Ok its found a good portion of text and all the links to the other internal pages, that's good, exactly what a site should deliver.

Now do the same for the Framed site, enter its web addy into the simulator and check out the results. Interesting, eh? Zero text, not a single word. Reason enough I think to steer well clear of Frames.
 
thank you very much for clarifying that ruth and seanny :)
 
Ok, here it is, the moment of truth, we're going to use our old friend The Search engine simulator. This gives us a good indication as to what the real search engines see when they crawl (or spider) a site.

Simulator (Search Engine Spider Simulator)

Interesting... that search engine spider simulator completely ignored the meta tags for keywords and description in a site that I threw at it!
 
Hi Seanny,

As you know, we have discussed me moving my site from the framed one it is currently, which I will do.....but can you just check my site in the simulator & tell me what you think?

When i use google to find 'Acrylic nails boston uk' etc etc, I come up on page 1 of google either 3rd and 5th or 4th & 6th (I'm counting the paid for ones at the top) see this link.....

acrylic nails boston uk - Google Search

I know it depends what people type in the search bit, but at the moment, is it working OK to you do you think?

I have added lots of words in the speacial meta (can't remember proper name) boxes.
What's your thoughts?
 
Hi Seanny,

As you know, we have discussed me moving my site from the framed one it is currently, which I will do.....but can you just check my site in the simulator & tell me what you think?

When i use google to find 'Acrylic nails boston uk' etc etc, I come up on page 1 of google either 3rd and 5th or 4th & 6th (I'm counting the paid for ones at the top) see this link.....

acrylic nails boston uk - Google Search

I know it depends what people type in the search bit, but at the moment, is it working OK to you do you think?

I have added lots of words in the speacial meta (can't remember proper name) boxes.
What's your thoughts?

You actually got the top link in Google (after the paid advert ones) for Nail Technicians boston (UK) - Nails at Home - which looks like one on those free business index sites rather than your main site itself? But pretty cool all the same!
 
Wow i've learn't something new! I've never even heard of them before so i'm glad you brought this subject up.
I entered my website to check and im pleased to see i dont have frames. :)
 
Ruth, some of the simulators handle the code slightly different than others, I try and run a site through 2 or 3 simulators to get a broader picture. Here's two more to try;

http://tools.summitmedia.co.uk/spider/


SEO Tool - Search Engine Simulator


Bev, I know your site was framed at one stage but.....erm, the frames have been removed by someone, dont look at me! LOL Seriously, they're gone and your site is perfect now. :lol: Just ran it through the simulator and all your info is right there where it should be. Happy Days!!
 
Ruth, some of the simulators handle the code slightly different than others, I try and run a site through 2 or 3 simulators to get a broader picture. Here's two more to try;

http://tools.summitmedia.co.uk/spider/


SEO Tool - Search Engine Simulator


Bev, I know your site was framed at one stage but.....erm, the frames have been removed by someone, dont look at me! LOL Seriously, they're gone and your site is perfect now. :lol: Just ran it through the simulator and all your info is right there where it should be. Happy Days!!


???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????:eek:

How the heck? What?How come who?

Yipppppeeeee then?!?

Was that you who did that? :hug:I never felt a thing!??!
 
Ruth, some of the simulators handle the code slightly different than others, I try and run a site through 2 or 3 simulators to get a broader picture. Here's two more to try;

http://tools.summitmedia.co.uk/spider/


SEO Tool - Search Engine Simulator

Interesting!

I'm pretty sure that some of those simulators are being a bit naughty, e.g. reading an HTML file line-by-line instead of doing proper HTML parsing of the tags - as they've done silly things like report that there are no alt tags on images where the <img> tag spans more than one line, and the alt tag is on the second line and whatnot - and that's on a site that has passed W3C validation as being valid XHTML too!

Then there's the whole issue of meta tags in terms of case sensitivity - my preference is for the <meta> tag to be in lower case (as opposed to <META>) but some of the simulators may well be ignoring the tag if it isn't in upper case!
 
ooo very interesting and helpful,
cheers matey x

Now I have searched my name in that spider thing,
and for my homepage I had loads of text,
But nothing for all the other pages ??

Is this a bad thing ?

My webby is

Home

thankyou xxxxx
 
ooo very interesting and helpful,
cheers matey x

Now I have searched my name in that spider thing,
and for my homepage I had loads of text,
But nothing for all the other pages ??

Is this a bad thing ?

My webby is

Home

thankyou xxxxx

Was there a list of links at the bottom of the report? If so, and they pointed at the other pages on your site, then all should be well - you'd have to enter the web address of each page on your site to get an individual report on that particular page's content...
 
Yes hun there was a link for each page I have x
 

Latest posts

Back
Top