Bizarre hair mystery

#1
Hey Salongeeks,
I am hoping one of you might be able to help me with a truly bizarre situation...:eek:
I had a client come in with grown out black hair, who wants to slowly progress to a light brown with maybe some blonde highlights.
I have now applied a colour remover twice to the black ends and it’s barely even faded.
She’s not dyed her hair for 9 months because of pregnancy and this black is still like blacker than a black hole.
I’ve used this remover before, on box black, and it’s usually pretty good. You have to do some fixing with the levels after but it works.:)
So I’m sure I did it exactly right! ;)
She’s been under a heat lamp, wrapped up with a thin plastic bag (the kind you cover cap highlights with)
I’ve really worked the hair to the point that I actually have hand-ache today, rinsed for three times as long as stated and yet... It’s still pretty darned black. o_O

I then did a test patch with a ten vol peroxide to check it and it just went right back to super black.

I found it odd because she doesn’t use heat on her hair, so no silicone melting in to the hair shaft.
Should I just cut my losses, literally and suggest she cuts it out? :rolleyes:

Pic included...
This isn’t my first rodeo with box black but this stuff is impossible! :eek:

Garnier 01 is a cruel mistress!
 

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#2
What colour remover did you use?
 

#3
What colour remover did you use?
It’s the Zalon Pro one? The only other one I’ve had any joy with was Pravana’s colour extractor but the shipping charges are painful, so I’ve been using Zalon
 

#4
I have previously achieved this result using Zalon remover, it is salon grade so i’m just very confused as to why it’s not working very well on my new client! It’s so bizarre!
(left before, right after)
(Both my work.)
 

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Haircutz

Super Moderator
Staff member
#5
Presumably, a lot of black came out when you rinsed it?
I’m guessing that the box dye has be re-applied many times and now the hair is completely saturated with artificial colour. If so, it’s going to take several sessions to shift it. You need to be patient and to charge accordingly.
 

#6
Thanks for the reply Haircutz
Yes, there was a lot coming out, in some places it’s like this kind of purplish black.
It’s difficult to see from the picture...
Okey doke, I will carry on with the Zalon remover and hopefully (fingers crossed) it’ll eventually come out.
I’ve never came across this before, she must have really dyed it a lot of times! :eek:
Usually two sets of remover is enough, so I was quite shocked.
 

jamiereid92

Well-Known Member
#7
Hey colour freak! I don't think it's gonna come out tbh, look at those ends they are so over processed.

If the colour stripper isn't working I'd be going in with bleach, but on that hair it's not gonna be able to take it, lightest you will get is a 5 and it will be destroyed.

If it was my client is suggest cutting it into a Bob, blending the colour with quasi for about 3 months, then trying again x
 

#8
Hey colour freak! I don't think it's gonna come out tbh, look at those ends they are so over processed.

If the colour stripper isn't working I'd be going in with bleach, but on that hair it's not gonna be able to take it, lightest you will get is a 5 and it will be destroyed.

If it was my client is suggest cutting it into a Bob, blending the colour with quasi for about 3 months, then trying again x
Hey Jamie! Thanks for your reply, it’s a very difficult situation. I really hate it when I have to be the bad guy...
That’s exactly what I was thinking originally!
Just didn’t know if anyone might have a better idea lol. ;)
I don’t know everything haha!
Despite how it looks, her hair doesn’t actually feel bad and has good elasticity and strength to it, I agree that the last 2-3 inches isn’t so hot though, that part is pretty overprocessed.

Tbh I have just never seen black this well, black. And I work with goths hair. :cool:

I think I can save where the black kinda fades in to the regrowth, I did a inconspicuous bleach test and I could clearly see where it would and wouldn’t lighten, pretty much because it just went black again in some places and not in others. So a long layered bob is definitely possible...
Either that or we do the old 2 yrs of trimming till it’s gone game... :rolleyes:
I will have a talk with her, looks like she has a big decision to make!
Thanks for your help! :)
 

jamiereid92

Well-Known Member
#9
Hey Jamie! Thanks for your reply, it’s a very difficult situation. I really hate it when I have to be the bad guy...
That’s exactly what I was thinking originally!
Just didn’t know if anyone might have a better idea lol. ;)
I don’t know everything haha!
Despite how it looks, her hair doesn’t actually feel bad and has good elasticity and strength to it, I agree that the last 2-3 inches isn’t so hot though, that part is pretty overprocessed.

Tbh I have just never seen black this well, black. And I work with goths hair. :cool:

I think I can save where the black kinda fades in to the regrowth, I did a inconspicuous bleach test and I could clearly see where it would and wouldn’t lighten, pretty much because it just went black again in some places and not in others. So a long layered bob is definitely possible...
Either that or we do the old 2 yrs of trimming till it’s gone game... :rolleyes:
I will have a talk with her, looks like she has a big decision to make!
Thanks for your help! :)
Who wants to with 2 years for a colour! Cut it and change it....the only choice
 

#10
Oh! You’d be surprised... Some clients are batsh*t crazy about even 1cm of hair being cut. ;)
I have to lie to them about it...
 

jamiereid92

Well-Known Member
#11
I know those clients, they have to buy conditioning treatments if they dont have what we recommend them to be cut off
 

#12
Hey Salongeeks,
I am hoping one of you might be able to help me with a truly bizarre situation...:eek:
I had a client come in with grown out black hair, who wants to slowly progress to a light brown with maybe some blonde highlights.
I have now applied a colour remover twice to the black ends and it’s barely even faded.
She’s not dyed her hair for 9 months because of pregnancy and this black is still like blacker than a black hole.
I’ve used this remover before, on box black, and it’s usually pretty good. You have to do some fixing with the levels after but it works.:)
So I’m sure I did it exactly right! ;)
She’s been under a heat lamp, wrapped up with a thin plastic bag (the kind you cover cap highlights with)
I’ve really worked the hair to the point that I actually have hand-ache today, rinsed for three times as long as stated and yet... It’s still pretty darned black. o_O

I then did a test patch with a ten vol peroxide to check it and it just went right back to super black.

I found it odd because she doesn’t use heat on her hair, so no silicone melting in to the hair shaft.
Should I just cut my losses, literally and suggest she cuts it out? :rolleyes:

Pic included...
This isn’t my first rodeo with box black but this stuff is impossible! :eek:

Garnier 01 is a cruel mistress!
Do you know the whole history of this black hair?
What did she use to colour it?, what was underneath?, what shampoo and conditioner has she been using?
I think whatyou might find is that she's used something along the lines of Feria, or live XXXL which is heavily silicone based to help stop the colour from fading. A lot of the time these kind of clients also use the likes of tresseme and pantenne which again is heavily silicone based.
As you probably know silicone creates a barrier on the hair,depending on how much build up there is, colour removes won't cut through the barrier as they are not aggressive/abrasive enough.
I would suggest you use Malibu C crystal gel, or at least malibu c colour correction. This will remove any build up of product, remove metalic salts and other mineral deposits.
Then you will be ready to do your colour remover. Don't forget it can take a few applications to break through stubborn colours.
Just a side note, make sure you apply plenty of product, and that it's completely worked in to the hair. Make sure your sections are fine enough for pure saturation.
I hope this helps and good luck!
 

#13
:D
Hahaha! Yup! I actually sell so much conditioner! ;)
Lol Don’t get me started... :p
They are all mental!
 

#14
Do you know the whole history of this black hair?
What did she use to colour it?, what was underneath?, what shampoo and conditioner has she been using?
I think whatyou might find is that she's used something along the lines of Feria, or live XXXL which is heavily silicone based to help stop the colour from fading. A lot of the time these kind of clients also use the likes of tresseme and pantenne which again is heavily silicone based.
As you probably know silicone creates a barrier on the hair,depending on how much build up there is, colour removes won't cut through the barrier as they are not aggressive/abrasive enough.
I would suggest you use Malibu C crystal gel, or at least malibu c colour correction. This will remove any build up of product, remove metalic salts and other mineral deposits.
Then you will be ready to do your colour remover. Don't forget it can take a few applications to break through stubborn colours.
Just a side note, make sure you apply plenty of product, and that it's completely worked in to the hair. Make sure your sections are fine enough for pure saturation.
I hope this helps and good luck!
Hi Ronray!
Thankyou so much for the advice!! And product recommendation. I am looking it up as you speak! :D
I know of silicone issues but not really come across it till now...
Yes, I know exactly what she used! I won’t touch a head without knowing!
It was Garnier Nutrisse 01
And she uses head and shoulders shampoo and often no conditioner ( I have promptly insisted she starts to use it and have given her a list of suitable ones.) :eek:
I had fears of silicone issues with the dye... but it’s never been this stubborn with previous clients. :rolleyes:
Before the black, she was her virgin colour which is a light brown with copper tones, (if she is telling the truth)

I will try the Malibu C, and hopefully it’ll start to shift!! :)
 

#15
Hi Ronray!
Thankyou so much for the advice!! And product recommendation. I am looking it up as you speak! :D
I know of silicone issues but not really come across it till now...
Yes, I know exactly what she used! I won’t touch a head without knowing!
It was Garnier Nutrisse 01
And she uses head and shoulders shampoo and often no conditioner ( I have promptly insisted she starts to use it and have given her a list of suitable ones.) :eek:
I had fears of silicone issues with the dye... but it’s never been this stubborn with previous clients. :rolleyes:
Before the black, she was her virgin colour which is a light brown with copper tones, (if she is telling the truth)

I will try the Malibu C, and hopefully it’ll start to shift!! :)
Oh dear! So her hair is very porous I take it?
Head and shoulders has a high amount of nasty silicone and glue like polymers, I definitely think this could be a big part of the problem.
Why does she not use conditioner?
People who don't use conditioner frustrate me!!
 

#16
Thanks again for all your help! :) hmmm it’s not too porous actually, only slightly above average porosity. M I was surprised when I got my hands in there!
The condition looks worse than it actually is in person... But the last few inches are considerably worse than the rest, respectively with her box dyeing it. ;)
Ahh ok, this is starting to make a lot more sense! I wasn’t aware that head and shoulders was particularly bad, I have been warning people off of brands such as tresemme, gliss and other cheap high street shampoo for years and only use products that are as organic as possible in the salon.
I do a lot of alternative hair colours using direct dyes, so it’s really important that I get these clients on to sulphate free products to keep their rainbows in for longer! :)
She says that she doesn’t like it, and it leaves her hair frizzy, (I know, I was like ??? too)
But I have now put her on the right track with a conditioner that matches her hair type.
I mostly use Schwarzkopf colour and Essensity shampoo/conditioner, but the best ones I’ve ever seen are by EO. Of course, it’s near impossible to track down over here... Uhh
The Americans get all the good stuff! ;)
 
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