Dennis Williams selling Solar Oil, Scrub Fresh, Additives and Nourishing Remover

[Lynne Baker]

At the risk of repeating myself here, the point is being missed.

S2 has a contract with CND to be the EXCLUSIVE distributor in the UK and Eire.

That exclusivity has been compromised.

All the other points made in this thread are interesting and some are valid, but the primary issue here is that S2's business model has been jeopardised because of a breach of contract.

 

[StaceyJones]

At the risk of repeating myself here, the point is being missed.

S2 has a contract with CND to be the EXCLUSIVE distributor in the UK and Eire.

That exclusivity has been compromised.

All the other points made in this thread are interesting and some are valid, but the primary issue here is that S2's business model has been jeopardised because of a breach of contract.

Why is that our problem? This is business. I'll buy my products wherever is cheapest! I have no contract with CND/S2 to obide to!

 

[AngieG]

To be honest it's the P&P I have a problem with and not VAT free days. I now use Ellisons whenever I can over S2 purely for the next day delivery if ordered before 8pm and free delivery over a small amount which is easily achieved with 3 bottles of Shellac.
I am all for supporting small business' as I am one myself but if I can save myself the very expensive p&p that S2 charge then I'm afraid I will.
Nail Harmony have recently reduced their p&p costs to keep in line with other on line Gelish Suppliers and I feel people would be more loyal to S2 if they did the same

 

[libbylou]

I think that the contract was breached a long time ago, shellac as been wildly available on ebay and amazon for years. The point is up untill now no one offered shellac with a deal (buy 4 get 1 free, 20 % discount etc) DW has and is doing so. For most of us it is not a personnel decision, just a business one. We are all in business to make money , and not one persons business is any more important then the other.

 

[princessamie]

I'm all for a deal but, what I'm concerned with is insurance.

Dennis Williams won't confirm where they have sourced their Shellac so, apart from taking their word for it, how do we actually know it's authentic?

CND don't supply them so how is it authenticated? I'm genuinely interested to know so if anyone could she'd some light, I'd be grateful.

I just don't see how my insurance would cover me for using a product that hasn't been authenticated by the manufacturer.

I know the whole 'if you do your job properly you won't need to claim' thing has been said when I've asked this question on the DW Facebook page (I've since been banned, funnily enough) but, what if a client does have a reaction to it and CND say 'well, we didn't supply it so we can't guarantee it's genuine'?

Yes, I'd like the threshold for free postage to be lower.
Yes, a little deal every now and then would be nice.
But, I want to know that what I'm buying is genuine so for now I will stick to S2 & Ellisons.

 

[Balance Andover]

I'm all for a deal but, what I'm concerned with is insurance.

Dennis Williams won't confirm where they have sourced their Shellac so, apart from taking their word for it, how do we actually know it's authentic?

CND don't supply them so how is it authenticated? I'm genuinely interested to know so if anyone could she'd some light, I'd be grateful.

I just don't see how my insurance would cover me for using a product that hasn't been authenticated by the manufacturer.

I know the whole 'if you do your job properly you won't need to claim' thing has been said when I've asked this question on the DW Facebook page (I've since been banned, funnily enough) but, what if a client does have a reaction to it and CND say 'well, we didn't supply it so we can't guarantee it's genuine'?

Yes, I'd like the threshold for free postage to be lower.
Yes, a little deal every now and then would be nice.
But, I want to know that what I'm buying is genuine so for now I will stick to S2 & Ellisons.

So, they are banning people from their page who are asking genuine questions.

There appears no restrictions in purchasing it.

They are also not stocking the whole range, so you'll still have to go to S2/Ellisons for your D-Sperse , Nourishing Remover, files, Solar Oil, Vinylux, point of sale and promotional literature which means extra postage costs and more minimum order values, so that discount or free bottle really isn't that much of a bargain, is it?

 

[hazeleyes]

So, they are banning people from their page who are asking genuine questions.

There appears no restrictions in purchasing it.

They are not stocking the whole range, so you'll still have to go to S2/Ellisons for your D-Sperse , Nourishing Remover, files, Solar Oil, Vinylux, point of sale and promotional literature which means extra postage costs and more minimum order values, so that discount or free bottle really isn't that much of a bargain, is it?

Just being devils advocate to your statement- It would be perfect for people like me. I have everything I need and have done all the training I need. All bought from s2. I also am not brand exclusive so I stock other polishes, files, remover products etc etc.

I only need to restock shellac occasionally and I am often put off buying by the large postage costs for just 1-2 bottles of shellac. Every now and then I put in large orders (over minimum spend) for scrub fresh remover etc but if I just want to buy a few shellac colours DW would be the obvious choice.

I also agree that the contract being breached issue is not our problem and shouldn't really be laid at our door. We shouldn't be made to feel guilty or disloyal for thinking of looking elsewhere or for trying to make savings for our humble businesses. We aren't friends, we aren't family. All we have is a business relationship with s2 and as I'm constantly being told "there are no friends in business".

 

[princessamie]

So, they are banning people from their page who are asking genuine questions.

There appears no restrictions in purchasing it.

They are also not stocking the whole range, so you'll still have to go to S2/Ellisons for your D-Sperse , Nourishing Remover, files, Solar Oil, Vinylux, point of sale and promotional literature which means extra postage costs and more minimum order values, so that discount or free bottle really isn't that much of a bargain, is it?

Yes, I've been banned from their page for asking genuine questions. I was at first directed to email them, I didn't receive a reply so posted on their page again. I was then blocked, and still haven't received a reply.

I've also emailed ABT (who I'm insured with) and they're proving equally as difficult to get an answer from.

You're right, the deals at the moment wouldn't save me much but, as I said, I'll be sticking with S2/Ellisons anyway.
I buy from S2 but only to stay on the locator, I buy much more from Ellisons only because the free delivery threshold is lower.

I wouldn't dream of buying anything that hasn't been authenticated by the manufacturer for use on my clients - no matter what the deal was!

 

[StaceyJones]

So, they are banning people from their page who are asking genuine questions.

There appears no restrictions in purchasing it.

They are also not stocking the whole range, so you'll still have to go to S2/Ellisons for your D-Sperse , Nourishing Remover, files, Solar Oil, Vinylux, point of sale and promotional literature which means extra postage costs and more minimum order values, so that discount or free bottle really isn't that much of a bargain, is it?

I purchased in the VAT free this morning and I've just had an email asking for my qualifications:

So it looks like DW are doing something to stop non-pro users from purchasing?

Also, wasn't it mentioned that S2 sell to the public at trade shows, so they can't really talk?

 

[LiverpoolLashes]

At the risk of talking money here (apologies and Mods feel free to remove it if you think this is too open a statement) I've just worked out this "massive" saving to roughly 15p a client (I'm happy for anyone to PM me and I'll tell you how I got to that estimation, especially if the value needs removing)

To be honest, my clients will often tip me from anywhere between £3 and £10 for the work I do so 15p doesn't even factor into my thoughts. I don't mean for that to sound like I throw money around though, I know very well how small businesses struggle. I had to sell a lot of my personal belongings when I started just to get the money together for stock and keep paying my bills. I'm very open in helping others by telling them how I struggled as well but I'm just reminding you much this price difference actually is in the scheme of things.

Having recently lost my Iced Cappuccino to old age (if you already follow my Facebook page you'll probably laugh at this) I wouldn't want to be taking the risk of starting my collection off with potentially old stock, particularly if this company STILL has the discontinued colours (as I know even Creative Academy Manchester doesn't, they bought extra stock of them and they've gone, I checked the other day.)

I love a healthy debate but I think when you focus on the price difference here and the potential loss to your business IF the bottles were not genuine or fairly new in terms of manufacturing, I would happily even pay £5-£10 more for the reassurance you know? We're not even talking anywhere near this value.

I hope what I've said maybe put some perspective on it and perhaps something to think of? The truth is I wasn't going to comment but I thought it might help xx

 

[Balance Andover]

I purchased in the VAT free this morning and I've just had an email asking for my qualifications:

So it looks like DW are doing something to stop non-pro users from purchasing?

Also, wasn't it mentioned that S2 sell to the public at trade shows, so they can't really talk?

Thank you for the clarification, much appreciated.

 

[Balance Andover]

At the risk of talking money here (apologies and Mods feel free to remove it if you think this is too open a statement) I've just worked out this "massive" saving to roughly 15p a client (I'm happy for anyone to PM me and tell you how I got to that estimation, especially if the value needs removing)

To be honest, my clients will often tip me from anywhere between £3 and £10 for the work I do so 15p doesn't even factor into my thoughts. I don't mean for that to sound like I throw money around though, I know very well how small businesses struggle. I had to sell a lot of my personal belongings when I started just to get the money together for stock and keep paying my bills. I'm very open in helping others by telling them how I struggled as well but I'm just reminding you much this price difference actually is in the scheme of things.

Having recently lost my Iced Cappuccino to old age (if you already follow my Facebook page you'll probably laugh at this) I wouldn't want to be taking the risk of starting my collection off with potentially old stock, particularly if this company STILL has the discontinued colours (as I know even Creative Academy Manchester doesn't, they bought extra stock of them and they've gone, I checked the other day.)

I love a healthy debate but I think when you focus on the price difference here and the potential loss to your business IF the bottles were not genuine or fairly new in terms of manufacturing, I would happily even pay £5-£10 more for the reassurance you know? We're not even talking anywhere near this value.

I hope what I've said maybe put some prospective on it and perhaps something to think of? The truth is I wasn't going to comment but I thought it might help xx

You also have to take into consideration how that 15p extra benefits you. That gets you full page adverts in magazines, huge brand awareness, point of sale, training, plus a lot more.

If I was a distribution company with exclusive rights, I'd be mightily hacked off if someone diverted products into my territory and rode off the back of my coat-tails!

 

[Lynne Baker]

This is exactly the point I was trying to make.
Nobody's laying the breach of contract at your door; what I was trying to say is that the problem is between S2 and CND, because their entire business model is built on the back of an exclusivity deal.

It's a bit like when you open a salon with a range of skincare that you've been told won't be sold by anyone in an x mile radius and then you find that 3 salons in your town have been allowed to stock it. All that happens is that it starts a price war.

 

[Funky Nails]

Hi All,

I've been following this thread from the start and it has been a really interesting read - so many points have been raised and I thought I'd register and post to contribute my 10 cents. The main gripe these past few pages has been that DW are selling 'old stock' so, because I have a trade card with their Bradford store and it's VAT free today, I decided to pop down and take a look for myself.

I've bought 3 colours from them, and I've attached an image below. They all have the NEW CND packaging so this can't be old stock, as it was only recently changed by CND themselves. Also, all the other colours on the shelf were in the new packaging?

Oh, here's the leaflet from CND themselves announcing the changes:

I appreciate many of you are loyal to Sweet Squared, and will purchase off them - and that's fine but is it your place to try and 'bully' people for lack of a better word into buying from them? Everyone's free to purchase from who they like, and spreading false rumours isn't a professional thing to do.

 

[MamaG]

Really interesting to see the info on the change of packaging. It screams to me that the LED lamp is on the way!
But that's a different thread entirely. Back on topic I agree that the price difference is negligible when it comes to cost of treatment. I dislike the shipping costs more than the lack of deals.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using SalonGeek mobile app

 

[pure]

Another way to look at this .....
What if Shellac had been launched in the UK without the exclusivity and support of S2? What if one company was selling the colours? Another the lamp. Yet another the PEP products. All competing in price wars.

Who would have promoted Shellac in the glossy magazines and general press? Who would have made Shellac the product of choice that clients ask for? Who would have provided education to ensure that we get the most out of the product and are able to provide the best possible service to our clients? Who would promote that we use the system as a whole ensuring our clients safety and therefore our compliance with the insurance companies?

By doing the above S2 have made my business a LOT of money - far more than I could save with the occasional offers that have been mentioned. In fact I can quite happily say that without the support and especially the promotion which S2 have done my business would not be as successful as it is today. I'm sure I'm not the only one who can say that!

And for those reasons I will remain loyal to the company who has been loyal to me, because for a saving of 15p per service it's really not worth losing all of the above!

 

[izzidoll]

DW is actually selling CND with the new packaging, which came out very recently..

I purchased in the VAT free this morning and I've just had an email asking for my qualifications:



So it looks like DW are doing something to stop non-pro users from purchasing?

Also, wasn't it mentioned that S2 sell to the public at trade shows, so they can't really talk?

Hi All,

I've been following this thread from the start and it has been a really interesting read - so many points have been raised and I thought I'd register and post to contribute my 10 cents. The main gripe these past few pages has been that DW are selling 'old stock' so, because I have a trade card with their Bradford store and it's VAT free today, I decided to pop down and take a look for myself.

I've bought 3 colours from them, and I've attached an image below. They all have the NEW CND packaging so this can't be old stock, as it was only recently changed by CND themselves. Also, all the other colours on the shelf were in the new packaging?



Oh, here's the leaflet from CND themselves announcing the changes:



I appreciate many of you are loyal to Sweet Squared, and will purchase off them - and that's fine but is it your place to try and 'bully' people for lack of a better word into buying from them? Everyone's free to purchase from who they like, and spreading false rumours isn't a professional thing to do.

I find it ironic that on a thread debating whether goods are counterfeit or there is anything underhand going on, that the 3 newly joined geeks who I have quoted here are all working on the same computer and the host is dennis-williams.co.uk.

There is nothing wrong with posting on here when you are affiliated to a wholesaler, but it needs to be disclosed on your profile, otherwise you are duping your fellow geeks to the fact you have a vested interest.

I don't see that any fair discussion can really be carried on now, and shall close the thread meantime until further investigations are completed.

 

[nicole333]

I can understand S2 wanting to protect their distribution rights and wanting this stopped, but the truth is nobody knows where this stock is coming from that DW and the now independent Academies are obtaining. Some people are now believing that it is totally dodgy without any real proof and that's fine as we are all capable of weighing up the risks.

I have not ordered from DW as I am a worrier! But it's not my business what anyone else does with their ordering. I like to stand back and listen to all sides and make my own mind up. I've never been a sheep, but I must say it's very easy to be influenced and becoming blind to thinking for yourself when first starting out, until you get the confidence to see things more clearly.

I'm just left with one more thought on the subject. This diverter must have a huge account with CND to be able to supply what is potentially an equally huge market in the UK. Call me cynical, but that equates to a massive amount of income for CND themselves and I know I am not in distribution or know how it works, but I find it hard to believe that there is much motivation to stop it for now.

Going back to what Samuel said about the difficulties it would cause in checking certs etc at the shows, well can you imagine CND putting the man power into this diverting problem? Maybe that's why it has and is still able to go on and the chances of it being genuine CND are likely.