Discipline

[Planky1]

So, we are now, sadly, in a world of Asbo's, unruly children, rioting, unsociable behaviour in the streets, binge drinking, truancy etc etc which is at an all time high.

Has the fact we can no longer discipline our children in the manner our parents and grandparents, and even teachers, did, now the reason for all the rises in unsociable behaviour?

Those of you who have children, do you smack your children ever?

I have to say we have. But we don't do it all the time, only when we feel it is absolutely necessary to show our son that whatever action he has just done is totally unacceptable and feel that a smack is the only way to show him this. He is a child that responds to other methods most of the time but I am not scared to smack him if I need to. I was smacked, it did me no harm and it taught me that certain things I did were very very wrong.

Do you agree with the new laws about smacking or is it just yet another step too far? Another rule by "big brother"? Should we have the right to discipline our children in the manner we see fit? (within reason)

I personally think there is a world of difference between disciplining your child by using a smack when needed and abusing your child with constant hitting (totally different to smacking) and other awful things some parents have done to their children, as we have sadly seen in the media.

What about teachers? Obviously when my parents went to school they got the cane or ruler on the back of the hand. I'm not sure that I agree with this type of discipline but I do think it's all getting out of control in schools. Again, the rules on what teachers are or are not allowed to do I think has gone too far.

My nephew has decided that he doesn't want to go to school anymore. We fear he's being bullied but he won't tell anyone, just says he isn't. He'll go in the car to the school but once at the school gates he screams and kicks and won't go in. He is 11. The teachers stand and watch from the other side of the gates, unable to help him in or take him off his parents because they are "not allowed" to touch him. My BIL is facing a fine and possible imprisonment if this continues and they can't get him to go. But if the teachers can't take him and they can't get him past the gate, what do you do??

I hear all too often about teachers having nervous breakdowns because of how unruly the children are and there's nothing they can do. How should they take back control? What are your thoughts on this?

So is a lack of discipline and the countless rules that have been devised over the years responsible for our next generations attitude and behaviour? Or is it just down to parenting? That it's how children are brought up by parents who couldn't care less themselves perhaps and nothing to do with discipline at all?

 

[deanosnana]

Truly a thought provoking thread, Planky!

When I went to Catholic school, way back when, we had 'corporal' punishment. In those days there were 50 kids in the class with one teacher; usually a nun.

Very seldom were there any discipline problems.

Fast FWD to a few years ago. I was subbing in one of the public schools for 7th grade. OMG...the kids were so unruly. Throwing shoes at one another, etc. At one point I glanced out the door and saw the principal. I caught his eye and motioned for him to come to the class. Those kids barely blinked an eye that he was there.

When I got home from work that day, I told my kids (at that time one was in 6th grade and the other was in 9th grade) what a bad day is was and all that had happened. After I was done venting, my oldest asked me, 'mom, did anyone hit you?' When I answered no, he said, 'well, then you had a good day'. I was apalled!

So, IMHO the 'fear factor' has a lot to do with it. When I was in school, there was a healthy fear of the teachers and what happened at home if you misbehaved.

My BFF and I were talking about this a while ago and she told me her brother did NOT do drugs, like so many of his friends did, because he was scared of what would happen to him if their dad found out.

I also feel parents have a lot to do with it. From my PERSONAL observations, I see a lot of parents who do not want to 'parent', it is more important to them to be their kids' friend. That drives me insane.

Parenting is a full time JOB. It's not always easy nor fun. Have I smacked my kids? Yes. Have I spanked my kids? Yes. Have I grounded my kids? Yes. Have I ever yelled at my kids? Yes. Have I ever abused, beat, demeaned my kids? NEVER!

When discipline became a problem at school, I worked WITH the teachers and not against them.

I now have two grown men who are decent human beings and contribute to society, in a positive manner.

So, to sum up, I think the problem is two-fold; first and foremost, no discipline at home and unfortunately, not much at school, either.

 

[angelina221]

My dad was very strict when we were younger.. We would push the boundaries occasionally but were punished when we did. He never hit us though, he didn't need to cos we had too much respect for him and did as we were told.
He always used to say 'All kids need are love and discipline and if you get the right mix then you won't go far wrong'.
I am the same with my kids. I've never hit them as I don't need to cos they do as they're told.
Now this is just my opinion but I think hitting kids teaches them that it's ok for a big person to hit a little person and that can encourage bullying.
I think the problems we have today is all down to the state of our moral decline.
Kids are subjected to so much crap on the telly now, violent computer games, scantily clad popstars who they admire, lack of respect, expecting everything to be handed to them on a plate etc
In my day (god I sound like my parents!), we worked for our pocket money, we had respect for our parents, we were grateful for everything we received and we were taught values and morals.
I think a lot of the problem is also because people don't spend enough time with their kids.
We need to spend time with our children and teach them values as they are our future.

 

[Crystal colleen]

Good thread very good.

Right well I have also smacked my daughter she was being a lil mare and when I say mare I mean mare I did it I felt so guilty that I didn't do it again I even cried lol.

I was smacked as a child probably 3 times a day lol and my brother lol it did us no harm and I always did what my mum said and never caused and trouble when I was out and about didn't drink till I was 17 didn't have sex till I was 17 in fear that she would fined out lol but me and my mum always maintained a very close bond.my dad on the other hand never smacked us he didn't like the thought of it and was a lot softer on us.

As for school I always went I never bunked off yes I was a pain in the ass when I was there just messing about being the class idiot spent many of time on top corridor away from everyone else.especially when I told my re teacher that god was a load of crap lol and I went to a catholic school not the done thing.(I don't feel that way now I was young )

My brother on the other hand never went to school he was fine until he hit 11 and it all went crazy mum changed his school 3 times he got into the wrong crowd and just went totally outa control mum was facing the same as the person you mention in your post he ended up having home tutoring from social services but not in learning school things more on anger issues and what was really going on.my bro is now a bricklayer of the highest standard he's 24 been doing it for years and years and years .

I think school defiantly need to toughen up this is why there are more cases of bullying low grades and general unruliness.

I don't think it can all be blamed on school as parents we need to be our children's starting block and teach right from wrong and be hard on them I feel a lot of parents are just far to soft on there kids and they run riot doing what they please.

Classic example near to where I used to live a young lad is out with his friends at a club they come out of the club and there is 2 boys beating up one lad so the lad that is out with his friends goes over and helps the lad to his feet not knowing who he is just felt he needed to help one of the two boys doing the beating pulled out a knife and stabs the young lad who was helping in the heart and kills him instantly.the two lads that had done this had 3 days before come out of prison for knife crime then done it all again but killing an innocent young man.the family of the accused said the young lad deserved it for getting involved.........sick.....

Disgusting I say and it's down to parenting as I child I would have no more gone out and stabbed someone I was taught right from wrong and there's
consequences for actions.

I am hard on my lil one as I want her to become a beautiful young lady if she's naughty she has everything taken away no privileges nothing also talk to her about her behaviour which always reduces her to tears and makes her see that it's not exceptable.

 

[Ruth Mills]

The most effective means of discipline with me when I was younger was the threat of forfeiting my pocket money! So if I did anything especially bad, I would lose pocket money for a number of weeks. That did work surprisingly well

 

[dandelionpoppy]

As a child I was never hit, or at least I don't remember having been.

I did smack the backs of my children's hands, never in temper but as a short, sharp shock. Did it and moved on. Personally I think it's far less damaging than that awful, whiney, droning nagging that you hear some parents do....often to little effect.

As a teacher in High School I began my career in a time when corporal punishment was allowed. It wouldn't have been an effective tool for me as most of the boys were bigger than me! However I did use it once....

A pupil was sitting in the front row of a GCSE exam. I didn't know him, but had been warned about him being horrendous before I went in the room, and he was sitting right in front of the invigilator's desk. I started the exam, kids got their heads down, and then he starting turning round to them and muttering. If he'd carried on I would have had to disrupt the whole exam and that would have been awful for the others. So I shot my foot forward and kicked him sharply on his shin. His face was a mixture of pain and bewilderment; then he looked at me, realised what had happened, looked down and didn't cause any more problems.

Basically, I think kids like to be kids, and want us to be adults. They like rules and parameters, it makes them feel safe and secure. Of course they will push against them, and so they should, but we have to stand firm.

And honestly, parents, 99% of teachers want what you want; a happy, achieving child. Working together, and presenting a united front really does work!

 

[dee]

i am strict with my kids and i dont apologise for it either .. we were scared of my mum she only ever hit me a couple of times tho coz just looking at me would make me sit quietly , lol
i will give a for instance .. my son came home with a mini math test .. now usually hes fab at math but this day got a pants mark , i went mad and told him he had to do extra practice , lol
then he had some other math work and wanted to use a calculator and i made him sit for ages trying to work it out .. i never let him have the calculator (we were given calculators at school adn my maths is rubbish ) , lol , he thinks i am too strict but i know in his future he will thank me ,:lol:

 

[Planky1]

Thank you for your replies so far, it's made really interesting reading!

I am really strict with my son, always have been. Was strict with his routine as a baby and still am now really. Was strict about the foods he ate, cooked everything from scratch for him and he had set meal times (although of course this was relaxed when needed). I used to get ridiculed for it, family members (and friends) not understanding why we wouldn't go out if it was his nap time or meal time but I didn't care. He was a VERY happy and secure, sociable baby because of it. He used to just beam at everyone, used to take me about 2 hours just to do a food shop because everyone would stop and want to look at him beaming up at them. He has never had separation anxiety because he was so sociable and still is. So nursery and school transitions were a breeze and he loved the social aspect and still does.

I am even more strict now on manners and how he behaves in public. If he plays up when we're out, we leave. End of. Now and again if we're somewhere really special, then he'll get a warning and one more chance to behave, but second strike and that's it. Everyone comments on how polite he is so I feel very proud we have been so strict on that part. He gets a big telling off if he is rude or speaks rudely to people.

I smacked him once or twice out of anger and felt the enormous amount of guilt and have not done that again. When I feel myself bubbling up with frustration and anger I walk away or tell him to go to his room and have some time out away until he is able to behave nicely again. We have sticker charts and he has toys taken away and other methods of discipline. Smacks now, are when he does something really bad that we feel it warrants it, like running out in a road, biting (he did this once and has NEVER EVER done it again) so IMO, if used infrequently and used as a warning/showing how bad or dangerous the thing is they've done, then I don't see anything wrong with it and I think it has the result that you want from it, to stop that behaviour from happening again.

He's at an age now anyway where he would certainly let it be known to the world if we were smacking him all the time, he has become very vocal Lol!!

But I am very strict and always will be. People can like it or lump it, in fact most of my friends have now said they would like to be a parent like me and my husband as we have the balance just right, we're strict when we need to be and we have loads of fun with him too. I found that quite humbling as I think as parents we always think we are doing it all wrong.

But sadly, good parenting seems to be in the minority these days. When the riots were happening here in August, there were children there as young as 5, looting and throwing things. I couldn't believe it

So what needs to happen in schools to get the control back? Is there actually anything that can be done or do you believe this is JUST about parenting?

 

[deanosnana]

But I am very strict and always will be. People can like it or lump it, in fact most of my friends have now said they would like to be a parent like me and my husband as we have the balance just right, we're strict when we need to be and we have loads of fun with him too. I found that quite humbling as I think as parents we always think we are doing it all wrong.

But sadly, good parenting seems to be in the minority these days. When the riots were happening here in August, there were children there as young as 5, looting and throwing things. I couldn't believe it

So what needs to happen in schools to get the control back? Is there actually anything that can be done or do you believe this is JUST about parenting?

I was a VERY strict parent, as well and I have BOYS! LOL! God gave me boys for a reason...if I had had girls, they would have never left the house.

My kids were on a stict schedule. I still get teased (they are now 24 and 26) about their bedtimes. As babies, they were in bed at 6:00 p.m. and slept til 6:00 a.m. the next morning.

As for your last question, Planky, I feel it begins at home. If there is good discipline at home, then there wouldn't be AS MANY problems at school.

 

[Crystal colleen]

Thank you for your replies so far, it's made really interesting reading!

I am really strict with my son, always have been. Was strict with his routine as a baby and still am now really. Was strict about the foods he ate, cooked everything from scratch for him and he had set meal times (although of course this was relaxed when needed). I used to get ridiculed for it, family members (and friends) not understanding why we wouldn't go out if it was his nap time or meal time but I didn't care. He was a VERY happy and secure, sociable baby because of it. He used to just beam at everyone, used to take me about 2 hours just to do a food shop because everyone would stop and want to look at him beaming up at them. He has never had separation anxiety because he was so sociable and still is. So nursery and school transitions were a breeze and he loved the social aspect and still does.
I am even more strict now on manners and how he behaves in public. If he plays up when we're out, we leave. End of. Now and again if we're somewhere really special, then he'll get a warning and one more chance to behave, but second strike and that's it. Everyone comments on how polite he is so I feel very proud we have been so strict on that part. He gets a big telling off if he is rude or speaks rudely to people.

I smacked him once or twice out of anger and felt the enormous amount of guilt and have not done that again. When I feel myself bubbling up with frustration and anger I walk away or tell him to go to his room and have some time out away until he is able to behave nicely again. We have sticker charts and he has toys taken away and other methods of discipline. Smacks now, are

when he does something really bad that we feel it warrants it, like running out in a road, biting (he did this once and has NEVER EVER done it again) so IMO, if used infrequently and used as a warning/showing how bad or dangerous the thing is they've done, then I don't see anything wrong with it and I think it has the result that you want from it, to stop that behaviour from happening again.

He's at an age now anyway where he would certainly let it be known to the world if we were smacking him all the time, he has become very vocal Lol!!

But I am very strict and always will be. People can like it or lump it, in fact most of my friends have now said they would like to be a parent like me and my husband as we have the balance just right, we're strict when we need to be and we have loads of fun with him too. I found that quite humbling as I think as parents we always think we are doing it all wrong.

But sadly, good parenting seems to be in the minority these days. When the riots were happening here in August, there were children there as young as 5, looting and throwing things. I couldn't believe it

So what needs to happen in schools to get the control back? Is there actually anything that can be done or do you believe this is JUST about parenting?

Hiya I'm exactly like you I take no nonsense simple and if she dosnt
Listen then there's consequences for her actions.I have always had bed time routine 6 o'clock on the dot and it's been the same from a baby I don't care what people think it's works and she is always happy smiling and fresh never tired and worn out like you see some children.billies manners are inpecable and is very well behaved when we go out if she has ever played up believe me she knows about it lol

We have strict routines children like routine they know where they are and makes things a lot easier for us :lol:

The riots were shocking and the post I wrote about the young lad being stabbed,parents need to take responsability for there kids not society.teach right from wrong what could happen if this happens be more stricked punishments.I mean I would know if my 5 year old was missing rioting trust me and the parents rioting dosnt gv a good impression for the children.

I'm not sure what we as a nation can do other than bring up our children properly with boundaries and never give up on them when things get tough. X

 

[dee]

i think a lot of the problems with kids now a days is social too , they are labled bad uns before they have done anything
if they wear hoddies they are thugs , if they skateboard or bmx they are thugs .. in canada the kids are treat with respect and on a whole the kids are far nicer , lol
my son if an avid skateboarder , wears hoodies and wouldnt dream of doing anything bad .. he goes to a indoor skatepark and his teachers are all young , funky dude with tattoos and piercings .. do you know you cannot meet a lovelier bunch of lads !!

also here the school are left open well actually because they dont have fences round em , lol .. but the kids are free to play on the basketballs courts on a night , the schools leave the floodlights on untill about 2 am ..
we live right near a school and the lads play there till 1 am sometimes .. there is never any trouble and i think its because they are not treated as guilty before they have even done anything :biggrin:

 

[HWilliams]

I am strict with Anthony when he needs it...

Naughty step, smack on the hand, bed etc

He will be in 3 in Jan. I could never dream of 'hurting' him but if he needs telling off, I do as much as I feel guity after.

I never give in with him, make him say sorry and never spoil him but one thing he does get loads of is cuddles.

 

[Planky1]

Nana and CC, my boy is the same, in bed 6.30 on the dot and sleeps through until between 6 and 7am the next morning. He is a strange boy anyway in that the later he goes to bed, the earlier he will wake, so if not asleep by 7pm absolute latest then we can say hello to 4.30/5am wake up calls

He is exhausted after school now, it was exactly what he needed, he is hard hard work, always has been and needs to be CONSTANTLY entertained in some way and is very active. Eats non stop and is so slight because he never sits still, not even when asleep! So he needed the mental stimulation of school and when I pick him up he is so quiet because he is so shattered. I think if he could, he'd go to bed by 4 Lol!!

When he was at pre-school last year I was being called in by the teachers every day saying that F had been really naughty, had done this that and the other. used to dread going to pick him up because it would be a case of what's he done now?? So when he started school, I warned them that he'd been having behaviour problems.
Had his first parents meeting 3 weeks ago and she said his behaviour is exemplary. So either the staff were rubbish (which they were IMO) or he was bored out of his brains or a combination of both. I know that for 2 and half out of the 3 hours he was at pre school, he was left to his own devices and just spent the whole time playing out in their garden. Fun but not stimulating or structured enough and in hindsight, I wish I had sent him somewhere that had more of a structured daily routine, it was what he thrived on.

Still, he's doing great now and I am so proud at how well he is coming on. He can behave very badly at home sometimes, but as long as he;s doing that behind closed doors and behaving well out in public then I don't care :wink2:

 

[Crystal colleen]

Nana and CC, my boy is the same, in bed 6.30 on the dot and sleeps through until between 6 and 7am the next morning. He is a strange boy anyway in that the later he goes to bed, the earlier he will wake, so if not asleep by 7pm absolute latest then we can say hello to 4.30/5am wake up calls

He is exhausted after school now, it was exactly what he needed, he is hard hard work, always has been and needs to be CONSTANTLY entertained in some way and is very active. Eats non stop and is so slight because he never sits still, not even when asleep! So he needed the mental stimulation of school and when I pick him up he is so quiet because he is so shattered. I think if he could, he'd go to bed by 4 Lol!!

When he was at pre-school last year I was being called in by the teachers every day saying that F had been really naughty, had done this that and the
other. used to dread going to pick him up because it would be a case of what's he done now?? So when he started school, I warned them that he'd been having behaviour problems.
Had his first parents meeting 3 weeks ago and she said his behaviour is exemplary. So either the staff were rubbish (which they were IMO) or he was bored out of his brains or a combination of both. I know that for 2 and half out of the 3 hours he was at pre school, he was left to his own devices and just spent the whole time playing out in their garden. Fun but not stimulating or structured enough and in hindsight, I wish I had sent him somewhere that had more of a structured daily routine, it was what he thrived on.

Still, he's doing great now and I am so proud at how well he is coming on. He can behave very badly at home sometimes, but as long as he;s doing that behind closed doors and behaving well out in public then I don't care :wink2:

You know what I have exactly the same problem due to billie being so prem and small when she was small.

Later she goes to bed earlier she wakes normally 4.30 she is on the go constantly never sits still eats more than me and her dad put together because she is so active she is still in age 4 clothes and she is 7 in march lol constantly needs attention and things to do does not stop talking even at school finds it very hard to concentrate on anything.if I was to let her she would roll around on the floor run aroung play in the mud in the garden just constant really she is very hard work stressfull at times.

My motto has always been as long as she's good in puplic I don't care what she is like at home I will deal with it and yes she can be very very naughty at home :lol: xx

 

[dandelionpoppy]

The strong message coming through here is that, if you are confident in your parenting skills, your child will feel secure and will look up to you.

They don't want to feel that they are in charge; it's not their role. Their role is to rebel a bit, test the waters, and realise the structures that living in a society entail.

Good work Geek parents ! xx

 

[Crystal colleen]

The strong message coming through here is that, if you are confident in your parenting skills, your child will feel secure and will look up to you.

They don't want to feel that they are in charge; it's not their role. Their role is to rebel a bit, test the waters, and realise the structures that living in a society entail.

Good work Geek parents ! xx

You are sooo right xxxx

 

[Planky1]

So what about those of you who aren't parents, what are your thoughts? Would like to hear from all, not just those of us with children, what is your take on why we seem to have a social decline now? xx

 

[Crystal colleen]

So what about those of you who aren't parents, what are your thoughts? Would like to hear from all, not just those of us with children, what is your take on why we seem to have a social decline now? xx

Very good question indeed x

 

[Pinkbunny28]

See I wasn't sure whether to post because I'm not a parent but I do agree that things have been getting worse and worse. I noticed it when year 7s would swear at us 6th formers just because they wanted to, no respect whatsoever.

I'm not sure if I would ever smack my own child unless they really deserved it. I was smacked as a kid but didn't think I deserved it most of the time! I'm sure my parents would disagree.

A lot of it could be due to bad parenting or lack of authority from schools but I think it could be plain simple respect. People are being given too many rights these days to do as they please without any regard for others and they abuse the system. Like theft, punishments are much less harsh than they used to be like when they chopped people's hands off so people do it because it'll take more for them to be prosecuted with something quite bad. There's no fear anymore. x

 

[annie:)]

This is sooo weird iv just had this convo with my mother-in-law as my partner was very naughty as a child,he got arressted,kicked out of school ect and in my opinion its was because his parents wanted to be his friend rather than a parent!

I smack my son,im very very scrict and hes only one but i beleive if i start now i wont have any need to in a few years time as hel no right from wrong.

My mum was strict with me i always had a smack and i always behaved as a child up to been a teenager, people comment on how well behaved all four of us were as children n i hope people say the same about my son!

People should stop been so afraid of their children been scared of them,thats how it should be and i beleive when you have a child its your responsibilty to teach them right from wrong!

My mum is now my best friend, she got abused as a child but that didnt stop her smacking us as she knows more than most that theirs a big difference in discplining your child and abusing a child.

In MY opinion i can always see a big difference in a child whos smacked to one that isnt and thats why i chose to smack toby, he knows i love him and hes spoiled to death but he also knows im the mummy and what i say goes xx

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