Help with self employed therapist!

[Beautie]

Hi all,

I own a salon and have had a self employeed therapist working there with me for a year. I pay her a percentage of what she earns, she can work her own times etc and has time off wherever she wants.
She has asked me if she can have her own account for the treatments we do in the salon to do at home, but assured me it's only for her and her mums benefit. She has now asked me for all her certificates and I just wanted to know if anyone else has been in this situation?
I have to give written confirmation to the certain company if I'm happy with her doing that certain treatment and having her own account away from the salon. Because I organised her training through my salon account, I got it so much cheaper than if it was done directly, so I feel it doesn't benefit the salon in anyway if I give her written consent to do it outside work.
Would really appreciate everyone's views on this. I'm sorry if it makes no sense, I'm a bit panicky as I think her intentions are that she's going to leave and leave me with so much stress. Thank you xx

 

[beautyxperts]

Did you pay for her training or did she pay for it? What was the agreement between you both when she did the training?

 

[RED STAR]

Oh dear....
Are you saying that although she's 'self employed', you paid for her training?
That's a very generous 'gift'.....
I think you could refuse.
Unless she lives a long way from the salon, she could be thinking of taking her clients 'home', and keep the whole cost of the service for herself.
I personally don't like the % split idea for that reason...a % of nothing...is nothing!

 

[lorynelizabeth]

Maybe review your arrangement with her. If you think she's going to leave and you want her to stay, why not offer her a room rent rather than a profit split. That way she can purchase products through you for the brand you're discussing, she can provide treatments for her mum without charging if that's what she wants, and you still keep your therapist.

As for the certificates, the likelihood is she can get a replacement copy from the training provider anyway.

 

[Beautie]

So because I get 60% of what she earns I thought it'd be fair to pay 60% of the training. One of the brands won't allow her to have her own account without my written consent.
Are the certificates hers or my property? Thanks for your help xx

 

[Beautie]

Did you pay for her training or did she pay for it? What was the agreement between you both when she did the training?

Agreement was if she leaves before a year after the training then she has to reimburse me for what I paid. That's all we had in place. Xx

 

[BannerPenguin]

So because I get 60% of what she earns I thought it'd be fair to pay 60% of the training. One of the brands won't allow her to have her own account without my written consent.
Are the certificates hers or my property? Thanks for your help xx

You shouldn't be paying her 60% of what she earns, she should be taking all the money herself and giving you 40% as rent. You are a landlady, nothing more, unfortunately.

It's a very gray area indeed regarding the training. It's something she should have paid for as she's self-employed.

 

[CFBS]

It sounds like it's time to sit down and discuss arrangements for the future with her as I'm afraid to say that it looks like she's getting ready to leave.
Hind sight is a wonderful thing but as Banner Penguin says, she should be collecting all her own money and making the payment to you as landlady.
Again, as only land lady, you shouldn't be holding any original copies of her certificates - only photocopies.

It is up to her to open accounts with companies under her own trading name. Don't let her connect in with your accounts as she might order loads of stuff and not pay - it then becomes your debt!!

Sorry if that's all a bit harsh but you now need to get things sorted. Don't be afraid when you meet privately with her to actually ask if she plans to stay. You can only move forward with complete honesty on both sides and always best to end it amicably.

 

[Beautie]

Thank you everyone for your reply as I do really appreciate it. This is the first time I've owned a salon and had someone working with me so it's all a learning curve which isn't as straight forward as I anticipated!
Do I have a leg to stand on when it comes to giving her written consent to have her own accounts with the companies she's trained in? I feel like I've got her training at such a low cost by doing it through the salon, why should I potentially allow her to take that away and take clients I've got for her? I've literally worked so hard in making this salon a success, I feel like it's about to go down the drain :-(

Any tips on what I should do going forward if she does or doesn't stay? So confused!

Thank you x

 

[Trashqueen]

They aren't your clients if she is self-employed though. Sounds like the line has been blurred here, regarding employment/self employment. If she chooses not to stay, then there is nothing you can do. They are her clients, but if she does, you really should get a new agreement in place. Personally, I've never seen percentage splits work when it comes to SE and as a self-employed person, I would not opt into one. I prefer a set price, even when I have bad weeks, so at least I know where I stand, as does my landlord.

 

[beautyxperts]

I know where your coming from, opening a new salon is hard enough never mind the running of it and building a client base.
I still find employing staff is better than self employment as with employed staff they are contacted and have to do there job description etc! Where self employed, you have no leg to stand on as such if they take the clientele with them.
As you had only a verbal agreement and nothing in writing I would actually give the self employed therapist notice to leave before any other problems arise - you can't try to make it amicable but 9/10 it does not happen this way - I have learnt my lessons too over the years and I have been taken advantage of. And no I would not give permission for the therapist to gain an account on the back of your money, info the brands that the therapist has left.
If you need help in the salon I would suggest taking on an apprentice that has completed level 2 minimum, that way they are employed for a min term of their apprenticeship.
If you want to pm me feel free X

 

[Trashqueen]

Regarding what beautyxperts has written about not giving permission for the therapist to get accounts on the back of your money - I would be very careful with that. If you have paid for training and withhold certificates or something, you can guarantee HMRC would have something to say about the employment status of the therapist. I would not hold those certificates from her, it sounds like a very grey area to me, if she were to approach HMRC.

 

[beautyxperts]

HMRC would not investigate a disagreement over certificates, the SE therapist would need to approach ACAS for advice or equivalent - and all they offer is advice no legal services.
It looks like the op needs to speak to the SE therapist and resolve this - we simply do not know all the ins & outs of this only a vague account of the situation of which it sounds like there is no legally binding contract.

 

[Trashqueen]

HMRC would not investigate a disagreement over certificates, the SE therapist would need to approach ACAS for advice or equivalent - and all they offer is advice no legal services.
It looks like the op needs to speak to the SE therapist and resolve this - we simply do not know all the ins & outs of this only a vague account of the situation of which it sounds like there is no legally binding contract.

Correct, however, paying for training and withholding evidence of course competition is something an EMPLOYER would do, not a landlord. That and several other indicators in this situation imply that this is not correct self-employment and that might be something they would look into, if the therapist were to approach HMRC, especially if she is upset with how the OP handles the matter. I'm not saying it would happen, just that it is one possibility. I wouldn't underestimate anything, personally.

 

[Beautie]

Correct, however, paying for training and withholding evidence of course competition is something an EMPLOYER would do, not a landlord. That and several other indicators in this situation imply that this is not correct self-employment and that might be something they would look into, if the therapist were to approach HMRC, especially if she is upset with how the OP handles the matter. I'm not saying it would happen, just that it is one possibility. I wouldn't underestimate anything, personally.

Sorry ladies, maybe I didn't make my original post clear - I am happy to give her the certificates as I know they are rightfully hers, but what I wanted advice on was that the companies have told me that for her to obtain her own account with them, I have to give written consent as she has done her training at a fraction of the cost through my account I already have with them.
In hindsight I should of told her to do her training completely separate to mine, but again this is something I have learnt from for next time. Would you be happy to give written consent in this situation?
In your above post you said they are her clients and I am well aware of that considering she is self employed, I do totally understand that part. What I was trying to say was that I have done all the hard work of advertising and building up her clientele that I'm not sure I want to give her written consent to be able to do it from home. If she wants to get her own accounts then I have been informed she can pay for the full cost of training, like I had to do 8 years ago when I first set up, then work my butt off to make it back! Am I being unreasonable?

 

[BannerPenguin]

Sorry ladies, maybe I didn't make my original post clear - I am happy to give her the certificates as I know they are rightfully hers, but what I wanted advice on was that the companies have told me that for her to obtain her own account with them, I have to give written consent as she has done her training at a fraction of the cost through my account I already have with them.
In hindsight I should of told her to do her training completely separate to mine, but again this is something I have learnt from for next time. Would you be happy to give written consent in this situation?
In your above post you said they are her clients and I am well aware of that considering she is self employed, I do totally understand that part. What I was trying to say was that I have done all the hard work of advertising and building up her clientele that I'm not sure I want to give her written consent to be able to do it from home. If she wants to get her own accounts then I have been informed she can pay for the full cost of training, like I had to do 8 years ago when I first set up, then work my butt off to make it back! Am I being unreasonable?

Like you say, I think it's a case of lesson learnt now. Unfortunately, you also shouldn't have been advertising for her etc. It was all down to her to do. It's her business.

I don't think there is going to be any easy way out of the situation. You either tell her no and I'd ask her to leave otherwise, there will be resentment in the salon or you say yes and chalk it up to experience. What I'd be tempted to do, if you're on good terms, I would try to sit down with her and be honest and say something along the lines of this "I made a mistake. I shouldn't have paid for your training as you're self-employed it's up to you to pay for your own training to better your business. I can't just let you use the account as I'm out of pocket when you now leave. The training got done at a huge discount not available to everyone, if you pay £££ towards what I paid for your training I don't mind giving consent otherwise you'll have to do the training again at the normal price."

Some people may see this as not fair but hey, it's business. This is probably what I'd do in this situation. You don't get a free ride in life and she should be thankful she gets to pay for the training at a big discounted rate through you. Worst case scenario she refuses and has to redo it. Not much business sense in that.

 

[sa.davis]

Hi,

I just had to reply to this! I wouldn't sign the consent, I feel if you do this you would have signed over all the clients that she is going to take from your business. I feel from what you have said she is preparing to leave and I would start advertising now if you need a replacement so your not left in the crap!
It really annoys me, my pet hate! Staff can be so sneaky and heartless as the post above says its business and she clearly does not care about what happens to your business as she is building her own business with your training and clients.

 

[beautyxperts]

I personally wouldn't give consent either - let her pay to open her own account as you had to do and any other business owner does. By all means give her the certificates but without consent they won't be valid.

 

[Trashqueen]

Sorry ladies, maybe I didn't make my original post clear - I am happy to give her the certificates as I know they are rightfully hers, but what I wanted advice on was that the companies have told me that for her to obtain her own account with them, I have to give written consent as she has done her training at a fraction of the cost through my account I already have with them.
In hindsight I should of told her to do her training completely separate to mine, but again this is something I have learnt from for next time. Would you be happy to give written consent in this situation?
In your above post you said they are her clients and I am well aware of that considering she is self employed, I do totally understand that part. What I was trying to say was that I have done all the hard work of advertising and building up her clientele that I'm not sure I want to give her written consent to be able to do it from home. If she wants to get her own accounts then I have been informed she can pay for the full cost of training, like I had to do 8 years ago when I first set up, then work my butt off to make it back! Am I being unreasonable?

Sorry, wasn't implying that you were going to withhold, just responding to the advice of another poster.

So it sounds as if the training is tied to the salon rather than the individuals undertaking it? If so, no, I would not give permission. If the training is on an individual basis then she wouldn't even need permission for an account, surely? If she wants accounts of her own, let her jump the hoops to get it.

 

[attitude]

Hi,

I just had to reply to this! I wouldn't sign the consent, I feel if you do this you would have signed over all the clients that she is going to take from your business. I feel from what you have said she is preparing to leave and I would start advertising now if you need a replacement so your not left in the crap!
It really annoys me, my pet hate! Staff can be so sneaky and heartless as the post above says its business and she clearly does not care about what happens to your business as she is building her own business with your training and clients.

She is not staff though.