Sorry didn't mean to misquote you, the point I was trying to make is that the only way to 100% protect livestock would to be essentially battery farming, which is far from an ideal world and goes against the recent interest it better welfare standards for livestock and the encouragement of free range herds.
Hunting: What Are Your Views?
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Sorry didn't mean to misquote you, the point I was trying to make is that the only way to 100% protect livestock would to be essentially battery farming, which is far from an ideal world and goes against the recent interest it better welfare standards for livestock and the encouragement of free range herds.
Tsia
Well-Known Member
yeah I know.... impossible, and that would be going against another recent debate on quality and organic, free range etc..
We could be here all day!! going round and round a few more shapes than just a circle!! lol:green: xxx:hug:
VHunter
Well-Known Member
It's unfortunate that often, things come down to money.... or lack thereof.
I understand in farming communities, you do what you must to protect your livestock. And that's fine. A lone farmer, setting a trap or going hunting on his own. I have no issue. Keep in mind though, the fox has a right to live too. We are encroaching on their land. "Man" propogates much more than any living creature, and we are eating up more and more and more of 'open land' that rightfully belongs to the animals. They are running out of space to live as they should.
No wonder they are going after livestock.
There are far more humane ways of taking care of what some might term 'vermin' than hunting them down with dogs and horses. Trap it in a 'gentle' trap, then as you would a family dog or cat, 'put it down'. HUMANELY.
Costly? Yes. Less fun for some? YES. But is it the right way? YES.
And yes, we can compare and animal such as a fox to people. Do they have feelings? Do they care for their families? Do they have intelligence? Are they simply trying to 'make a living'? YES YES YES. Just as we do.
They don't set out to be disruptive. They don't set out to upset our lives. Their only intention is to live, just as we do.
Yes we will all agree to disagree on this one, I think.
Perhaps it's best.
But, I remember the look on my sister's face when she was 'hunted down'
She was 11yrs old. Doing her paper route. A neighborhood dog that was part dane and known to be nasty got loose, and chased her a few yards before he knocked her down and tore into her arm. We are both built petite, and he likely weighed nearly twice what she did. She required surgery for that arm, and cosmetic surgery too. He made a right mess of her arm.
To this day, she is terrified of large dogs. She grew up with large dogs too, and knows that they are not all like this. However, all it took was to be chased down once to destroy her love of them.
So, because she could not run as fast as the dog, does this mean she's not entitled to live? Because that's the argument I'm hearing for the poor fox.
Should not the strong protect the weak & meek's right to live?
Just some food for thought.
Tsia
Well-Known Member
Tsia
Well-Known Member
or ill? is that why she couldnt run as fast? :grr:
jess124
Well-Known Member
To me it's the mentality of the hunt that I do not understand. The unfairness of all those dogs after 1 fox (of course this dosen't happen any more now it's banned 
)
I could just never see how people could enjoy tracking and killing a small animal, even if they are 'vermin'.
Sure a farmer has a right to protect his lifestock, this I totally understand and agree with (my FIL was a farmer, so understand this) but like I said it's the actual hunt I cannot understand. I just cannot understand the pleasure that people gain from it? Of course you can go through all the arguments about it being a neccessity of life to reduce the numbers of foxes in the wild, but at the end of the day it's the way they do it that bothers me.
) I could just never see how people could enjoy tracking and killing a small animal, even if they are 'vermin'.
Sure a farmer has a right to protect his lifestock, this I totally understand and agree with (my FIL was a farmer, so understand this) but like I said it's the actual hunt I cannot understand. I just cannot understand the pleasure that people gain from it? Of course you can go through all the arguments about it being a neccessity of life to reduce the numbers of foxes in the wild, but at the end of the day it's the way they do it that bothers me.
dee
supernatural geek
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i hate it , think its totally barbaric , my hubbys family are farmers and i have this argument with him & them all the time :irked: they all think its a good way of getting rid of foxes but when do you ever see 200 foxes run after 1 lamb !!yeah farmers do have a right to protect thier stock but i think its far kinder for them to just shoot the fox straight out than have it riipped to shreds by a load of dogs , jmo
Merrick
Well-Known Member
Might I share a little anecdote with you all, just for some perspective and the like.
By the way I support a good organised hunt.
Some friends of mine are active members in a local hunt (I dare not go, my riding skills arn't up to it and my horse would flip) The hunt had to cross a road, it is well signposted up and down the road for drivers to beware of the hunt party. As the dog pack crossed the road, a large 4x4 vehicle drove up the road very fast and straight into the pack instantly killing four of the dogs and injuring about seven others who later had to be put down, a number of other dogs would no longer join the hunt following this incident and had to be rehomed (never an easy task). The driver of this car did not stop and just carried on down the lane leaving a trail of blood in their wake.
Well done to that man, he needlessly killed ELEVEN dogs, who were participating in a DRAG HUNT!!! Not one of these animals had ever laid eyes on a fox.
Another incident involved some fool of a man actually driving his car into the Hunt Masters horse (20 hands of solid muscle (Some kind of Cobby thing, I think) the horse fell, landed on and killed a dog, then as it panicked and tried to get up on a broken leg, lost its balance and fell into a ditch at the side of the lane and broke another leg along with gaining many cuts and scrapes. Whilst the horse was in agony lying in the ditch, the man had the audacity to get out of his car and begin screaming at the Hunt Master who had just picked himself up off the ground and was trying to come to terms with seeing his £5000 horse dying in a ditch. The car driver informed the Hunt Master that he was being cruel and inhumane to hunt a fox!!!!! (this was a true hunt). The Hunt Master took one look at the man and knocked him out cold. and I take my hat off to him.
The horse had to be put down, as it probably would not have recovered from its injuries, and if it had it would not be able to work and earn its keep (a bad horse is as expensive to keep as a good one).
Just thought I would share this with you, even some of the anti-hunt protesters aren't bothered about animals.
By the way I support a good organised hunt.
Some friends of mine are active members in a local hunt (I dare not go, my riding skills arn't up to it and my horse would flip) The hunt had to cross a road, it is well signposted up and down the road for drivers to beware of the hunt party. As the dog pack crossed the road, a large 4x4 vehicle drove up the road very fast and straight into the pack instantly killing four of the dogs and injuring about seven others who later had to be put down, a number of other dogs would no longer join the hunt following this incident and had to be rehomed (never an easy task). The driver of this car did not stop and just carried on down the lane leaving a trail of blood in their wake.
Well done to that man, he needlessly killed ELEVEN dogs, who were participating in a DRAG HUNT!!! Not one of these animals had ever laid eyes on a fox.
Another incident involved some fool of a man actually driving his car into the Hunt Masters horse (20 hands of solid muscle (Some kind of Cobby thing, I think) the horse fell, landed on and killed a dog, then as it panicked and tried to get up on a broken leg, lost its balance and fell into a ditch at the side of the lane and broke another leg along with gaining many cuts and scrapes. Whilst the horse was in agony lying in the ditch, the man had the audacity to get out of his car and begin screaming at the Hunt Master who had just picked himself up off the ground and was trying to come to terms with seeing his £5000 horse dying in a ditch. The car driver informed the Hunt Master that he was being cruel and inhumane to hunt a fox!!!!! (this was a true hunt). The Hunt Master took one look at the man and knocked him out cold. and I take my hat off to him.
The horse had to be put down, as it probably would not have recovered from its injuries, and if it had it would not be able to work and earn its keep (a bad horse is as expensive to keep as a good one).
Just thought I would share this with you, even some of the anti-hunt protesters aren't bothered about animals.
jess124
Well-Known Member
Yes I see your point, people are strange. To me a fox is as important as a horse or a dog, they are the innocent parties in this, they are only doing as they are trained to do by humans obviously. To act that way to an animal whilst protesting for the rights of another animal makes no sense.
I suppose some people use the protesting against the hunt as an excuse for unacceptable behaviour.... Such is life thought, where ever you go people will find an excuse for violence e.g football, politics, etc I do not think this type of person is truely protesting about the hunt as such, just using it as a reason to be deliberately cruel and anti social. To me the acts you've described are as bad as the hunt. As I said it's the animals that are suffering at the hands of humans that bothers me.
VHunter
Well-Known Member
Its absolutely shameful that someone could cold-bloodedly murder innocent dogs in such a manner. And the same for the man that hit the horse. As far as I'm concerned, the commit MURDER.
The dogs and horses are innocent. They do as they are trained to do. They are GOOD animals.
I agree that sometimes populations of animals require 'controlling' if you will, because there's not land to feed the deer, or the fox has propogated so much, it's "judged" to be vermin (see definition below) and a hindrance to a livestock farm. I dont like it, but I understand it and see the sense of it.
However, as I said earlier, there are more humane ways of taking care of such problems. Putting them down without pain. Relocating them. All costly, but the animal deserves at least that much. They are just as innocent as the horse and dogs mentioned above.
It's the "Manner" of the hunt I object to. HOW it's done. And that the people participating are laughing and smiling,at how these poor animals die.
That is just plain SICK.
I'm not a vegan nor a vegetarian. I accept the circle of life and that sometimes, animals die for us. That's ok.
But I'm also against animal testing. Let some poor human volunteer. Stop torturing animals (but that's another debate altogether LOL)
I have a friend. A vegetarian. Won't wear leather etc. YET for all she loves animals sooo much, she insists that her cat stay OUTSIDE ALL YEAR LONG. A domesticated cat is not meant to live outside under the conditions of Quebec weather. Her former cat froze to death one winter, under her porch. And yet, this one is forced to stay outside too.
Makes no sense.
But then, a great deal of things we humans do make no sense. We're odd critters that's for sure.
The dogs and horses are innocent. They do as they are trained to do. They are GOOD animals.
I agree that sometimes populations of animals require 'controlling' if you will, because there's not land to feed the deer, or the fox has propogated so much, it's "judged" to be vermin (see definition below) and a hindrance to a livestock farm. I dont like it, but I understand it and see the sense of it.
However, as I said earlier, there are more humane ways of taking care of such problems. Putting them down without pain. Relocating them. All costly, but the animal deserves at least that much. They are just as innocent as the horse and dogs mentioned above.
It's the "Manner" of the hunt I object to. HOW it's done. And that the people participating are laughing and smiling,at how these poor animals die.
That is just plain SICK.
I'm not a vegan nor a vegetarian. I accept the circle of life and that sometimes, animals die for us. That's ok.
But I'm also against animal testing. Let some poor human volunteer. Stop torturing animals (but that's another debate altogether LOL)
I have a friend. A vegetarian. Won't wear leather etc. YET for all she loves animals sooo much, she insists that her cat stay OUTSIDE ALL YEAR LONG.
A domesticated cat is not meant to live outside under the conditions of Quebec weather. Her former cat froze to death one winter, under her porch. And yet, this one is forced to stay outside too.Makes no sense.
But then, a great deal of things we humans do make no sense. We're odd critters that's for sure.
Sorry definitely have to disagree here, hence 5 corpses this morning and not 1 taken to eat, they do kill for the sake of it not just to stay alive and feed themselves.
jess124
Well-Known Member
Yes, but would you really wish for them to be ripped apart by a pack of dogs for this? Or destroyed in a more humane way?
Tsia
Well-Known Member
Yes and wether you come into this world as a piglet or a fox, you have as much right to live as the next animal/mammal/insect/bird.:green:
Sorry, can I just say something on this one, my cat kills a bird because it is his instinct and his natural food. A dog has been trained to kill. Big difference. I am opposing hunting for many reasons. I have been living in the country side and in the city. And I remember that in the night the animals were locked inside, there was no chance for any predators to get in and cause harm. I do not belive in the argument of lost jobs. Now a days all agriculture has changed and all the farmers has look the other ways to make their living. If an animal has to be killed, there are other ways to kill, for example by shooting. I do not consider my self as fundamentalist, but I do believe on this one that unnecsessary killing ( killing for fun not for food ) is wrong. When the ban happened, some hunters said them selves that the hunt is a social event....what more can I say?
diva07
Active Member
Of COURSE IT SHOULD BE BANNED!!!.It is a poor excuse for idiots to kill animals in this inhumane way.Even if a fox killed livestock on someones land (which it probably did to feed its young or was hungry )then these wealthy land owners donot need a heap of idiots on horses with dogs to track down one small animal to tear to to bits.It can be caught and put down humanely it feels pain like you and me.
pennijar
Well-Known Member
No
I have not been on a hunt.
However, how can you sit there and tell me that the fox is not suffering when it's fleeing for it's life in terror and fear????
HOW is that not suffering and cruel? To chase this animal down for sport? It's certainly not to feed someone's hungry belly.
Maybe someone should chase you with a nasty pack of huge dogs, bigger than yourself and see if you like it.
And if you're not lucky, they'll catch you and shake you about before someone puts you out of your misery.
Try to think from that point of view. From the fox's. Walk a mile in his shoes.
I know that I dont want to.
100% with you on this one, you have put my thoughts exactly Thank You.
Joan
jess124
Well-Known Member
Yes I agree, started this thread to get some good intelligent views on something I wanted to learn more about, so best try not to name call! Or you'll get dentention and loose 5 minutes of your golden time hehehe. But seriously, acwhiteh I appreciate your input, and see where you are coming from. I suppose it's easy to get carried away though when you feel so passionately about something.
I dont want to come across as though I rave about hunting and think its the best idea in the world because I dont- just tried to give another side to the story - thank you anyway - had enough of this post as it could carry on for weeks and I did initially log on to find some nail info
