Important information regarding who injects botox in your salon

[smooth]

hello ,thank you for your words of advice .Sorry didnt realise there were guidelines on the site ,however cant see the difference between us offering a experienced reliable practitioner same as yourself sourcing others for clinics and salons .With regards to the question ,just genuinely interested -not wanting to stir up things x

It takes a little time getting used to it but you get there in the end. The difference is I am not posting for financial gain whereas your post was for personal gain of your company. I have 26 clinics I go to and don't have a lot of time to take on others unless they are in around 5 miles of my other clinics. So I have posted on here to put them in touch with other qualified injectors who are not within my company so it is of no financial benefit to me. If someone contacts me via PM or other forms again that is different.

The beauty therapist injecting issue, very few will actually come on here and admit it, we can state on here as many times as necessary about legislation but at the end of the day all we appear to do is say to people who have paid out thousands of pounds to train that it is now nigh on impossible for them to inject within the law.

 

[NurseJane]

Brilliant thread guys. Good to know that someone has made clear sense of the new guidelines. Soooo glad I'm an independent prescriber as I've only been in this industry for a year! I know a few other practitioners that trained with the same company, and they are still using this company for remote prescribing. As you've all said - its purely for financial gain!

 

[smooth]

Brilliant thread guys. Good to know that someone has made clear sense of the new guidelines. Soooo glad I'm an independent prescriber as I've only been in this industry for a year! I know a few other practitioners that trained with the same company, and they are still using this company for remote prescribing. As you've all said - its purely for financial gain!

Hi Jane

I've known about the way remote prescribing has been carried out for the 7 years I've been in the industry and it has certainly put their registration at risk. I think it is an NMC registrant's responsibility to adhere to and fully understand the guidelines but also doctor's should not try to pull the wool over nurse's eyes. I too am a prescriber and it is only when you do the course that you find out in depth all the legal things surrounding prescribing and prescription only medicine. Very scary!! x

 

[botox girl]

Hi Jane

I've known about the way remote prescribing has been carried out for the 7 years I've been in the industry and it has certainly put their registration at risk. I think it is an NMC registrant's responsibility to adhere to and fully understand the guidelines but also doctor's should not try to pull the wool over nurse's eyes. I too am a prescriber and it is only when you do the course that you find out in depth all the legal things surrounding prescribing and prescription only medicine. Very scary!! x

What if you knew of a nurse prescriber acting in a way which very seriously went against NMC regulations and guidelines, what then? Does she get reported or do we turn a blind eye? Im very interested in what you all have to say on this as a non medic doing injectables Im aware of this situation happening? Should she be reported?

What can you advise?

 

[ashalina23]

Its pretty clear report them to the nmc as patient safety is always first. You can email - they're pretty quick at responding.

 

[smooth]

What if you knew of a nurse prescriber acting in a way which very seriously went against NMC regulations and guidelines, what then? Does she get reported or do we turn a blind eye? Im very interested in what you all have to say on this as a non medic doing injectables Im aware of this situation happening? Should she be reported?

What can you advise?

If you have proof any medical professional is going against guidelines then they should be reported that is what their governing body is for. I would say though that there are genuine reports and malicious reports, I know of a local medical professional who has been reported to the GMC because he wouldn't supply botox to someone through remote prescribing and they reported him making up allegations along the way.

If it is a nurse remote prescribing, this actually can be done in certain circumstances as it can with doctors and dentists but those circumstances are very clear.

A doctor has been reported to GMC for remote prescribing, there are tons of nurses who have copies of the prescription but they won't say anything as they are going against NMC guidelines also.

Its pretty clear report them to the nmc as patient safety is always first. You can email - they're pretty quick at responding.

Yes they are, I would just clarify the number of complaints have been rising to governing bodies and the NMC's stance is protecting the public. Some of the offences being looked into are putting patients directly at risk. No-one should be put at risk but realistically there should be a test case with reference to remote prescribing.

 

[HsarahH]

Such a great thread. I have read it befoer but was re-refering to it this afternoon as Im keen to enrol on a Botox course.

So, just to clarify, once I have completed my Botox course (Ive been looking at a couple of courses on Harley st but if anyone can recommend that would be fab) the only way I can obtain and administer the Botox is if a Doctor or Dentist (or nurse prescriber?) has seen my patient face to face? This can not be done over the telephone anymore? And then I have a year to administer the botox?

So if this is correct how would I go about finding a dr / dentist to work with me? Or even better, how would I go about finding an appropriate nurse prescriber course? I have of course googled and searched all of this time and time again. But as you are all very aware its very confusing!

Am I restricted to where I can administer botox? Eg can it be in a clients home, or within a beauty room or does it have to be somewhere more clinical?

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you to anyone kind enough to help :biggrin:

 

[lancashirelass]

Hi
I just wanted to ask about this as I have just made a date for my first clinic in my salon and the person who is coming is going to be conducting a consultation over the phone, is this not allowed now or what?

Can some one let me know

 

[BotoxBoy]

Hi,

The NMC guidance says the routine administration of botox for routine cosmetic treatments is not acceptable from a remote prescription. A remote prescription is still remote if information technology is used to assess the patient including phone, email, fax and video etc.

As a nurse, if you administer botox to a client when the client has only been assessed by a nurse prescriber or doctor via phone etc then this is classed as a remote prescription and is not allowed!

You are risking your registration by administering botox in this way!

As for courses, the one by Harley Aesthetics on Harley St has a lot of practical elements to it and at £400 is a competitive price.

As for the nurse prescribing course, this is pretty difficult if you're not in a full time NHS funded course as it can cost several thousands of pounds for the supervision element of it, but will be worth it in the long run as being a nurse prescriber means you can provide the full assessment and prescription to your client without the need for other people involved.

One way around all this could be to concentrate on fillers until you do the prescribers course as these can be purchased by nurses without a prescription.

X

 

[HsarahH]

Thank you for your reply. I have taken this quote from another forum and wonder what your thoughts are.

"I think there is some confusion over the term "remote prescribing", I have clarified this term with the NMC. They state that remote prescribing relates to bulk prescribing e.g. A doctor prescribing enough supplies to last me 2 months - without having any opportunity to consult with the individuals receiving the treatments.
They advise that it is acceptable for a named medical prescriber to consult with the patient and recommend that the doctor should have a copy of the consultation form completed by the patient. The supply of the medicine should be able to be traced to a prescription and supply for a named individual. This can be valid for up to 1 year, however, the individual administering treatments should always ask if anything has changed since the last treatment. My prescriber speaks to my clients before their initial treatment and follows them up a couple of days after... a good service worth paying for."

Obviously im unsure of how true this is and it is something i would want in writing from them, but this is what they have said the nmc's views were. The post was dated 7/8/10 and I know the law changed slightly in april.

Does anyone have a doctor prescribe for them? Perhaps in their clinic? Im guessing that if I work within someone elses clinic the pay would not be too great, and certainly not what I could earn working for myself?!

Perhaps I will give the nurse prescriber course a miss then! Im not an A+E nurse so cant see my ward funding this!

 

[HsarahH]

ok, ive just read this and answered my own question!

Remote prescribing and injectable cosmetic medicinal products | Nursing and Midwifery Council

Has anyone ever been in trouble for remote prescribing then? I get the impression the NMC are still a little unclear. Although obvioulsy I would never chance it! Just curious.

 

[BotoxBoy]

Thank you for your reply. I have taken this quote from another forum and wonder what your thoughts are.

"I think there is some confusion over the term "remote prescribing", I have clarified this term with the NMC. They state that remote prescribing relates to bulk prescribing e.g. A doctor prescribing enough supplies to last me 2 months - without having any opportunity to consult with the individuals receiving the treatments.
They advise that it is acceptable for a named medical prescriber to consult with the patient and recommend that the doctor should have a copy of the consultation form completed by the patient. The supply of the medicine should be able to be traced to a prescription and supply for a named individual. This can be valid for up to 1 year, however, the individual administering treatments should always ask if anything has changed since the last treatment. My prescriber speaks to my clients before their initial treatment and follows them up a couple of days after... a good service worth paying for."

Obviously im unsure of how true this is and it is something i would want in writing from them, but this is what they have said the nmc's views were. The post was dated 7/8/10 and I know the law changed slightly in april.

Does anyone have a doctor prescribe for them? Perhaps in their clinic? Im guessing that if I work within someone elses clinic the pay would not be too great, and certainly not what I could earn working for myself?!

Perhaps I will give the nurse prescriber course a miss then! Im not an A+E nurse so cant see my ward funding this!

Hi... That was my quote I think?

That was before the NMC clarified their position in April 2011.

The wording is now pretty clear... I'll have a look and post the details.

 

[BotoxBoy]

Also...

Re the course, you could self fund through a university.

Basically you need to speak to your prescribing lead and say you would like to do it but all in your own time and self fund. That way they can sign off in it but you still pay.

If you do it this way it will cost £800-1500 to do but you'd have to find your own consultant (Dedicated Medical Practitioner or DMP) to supervise you for the 90 hours clinical practice you need.

Thus is relatively easy to do if you know someone willing, and things like spending time with a pharmacist and discussing drugs on a ward round all count towards the total so you can be quite flexible.

Worth a try and is much cheaper to do this way!

 

[BotoxBoy]

“remote prescriptions or directions to administer should only be used in exceptional circumstances and not as a routine means to administer injectable cosmetic medicinal products”

I think the NMC is pretty clear on this! I think it is people in the industry who are attempting to make it sound unclear to their advantage.

I couldn't believe it when I received my copy of cosmetic news this month when I saw a full page advert entitled "remote prescribing service" from a well known aesthetics training company!

The only thing I can think of is that for certain 'medical' treatments (excess sweating' etc as opposed to 'cosmetic' treatments, then botox can be remotely prescribed and administered.

I'm also wondering if some of these companies are using the element of psychological impact of someones appearance so that botox becomes a medical treatment for that instead of a cosmetic one? I've not seen any evidence of this but I do wonder how a company can so brazenly get away with 'remote prescribing' after the NMC's clarification...I would love to know the answer!

 

[Nu_yu]

Hi fellow geeks.

This will not apply if you have a doctor, dentist or nurse prescriber in your salon administering botox to your clients. Legislation has now changed in that if you have a non prescriber in your salon they can no longer use fax, e-mail or telephone call to do remote consultations/prescriptions. The clients you recommend to them need to physically see the prescriber before the botox is prescribed, dispensed and administered.

All this has come about from consultations over the years with Department of Health, IHAS and professional regulatory bodies. There has been a tv documentary plus BBC radio coverage concerning this matter.

Do you want to make sure that you/your injector is injecting legally? Please post any questions or how they are currently working so we can advise you accordingly on how to change your/their practice to meet with current guidelines.

Sorry if you've already answered this but are these regulations a Scottish law too or just England, Wales. Etc x

 

[HsarahH]

So, Im guessing there must be some geeks who are not nurse prescribers. Do you have a prescriber on the premises? Or do your clients go to see the dr/dentist/nurse elsewhere adn then come to you for their treatment?

 

[Nu_yu]

Sorry if you've already answered this but are these regulations a Scottish law too or just England, Wales. Etc x

I don't inject I have a nurse/prescriber who comes to salon I was just interested. Xx

 

[HsarahH]

I don't inject I have a nurse/prescriber who comes to salon I was just interested. Xx

Yes, but what Im thinking about is all of the nurses who have done the botox courses ect in the past but are not prescribers themselves. Are there medics who can prescribe around that are happy to work with a small time independant nurse who would do the injecting?

 

[BotoxBoy]

There are in some areas, where are you?

But this obviously has an impact on your profit and the complexity of the business.

 

[HsarahH]

Yes it would eat into my profits but im not sure there would be any other legal way for me. Im in Hampshire.