Insurance question re waxing!

[Kim Lawless]

Thankyou BABTAC for you in depth reply.

I do not hold any pre-requisites either so effectively would I have to go to college before I could do any of Kim's courses? Is it the same if I wanted to do HD brows also seeing as that also includes waxing/tinting?

No, you're misunderstanding this. You only need a qualification in basic waxing which can be done either with me (Speed waxing) or on any other accredited course recognised by your insurer. Then you can do Brazilian waxing. You can't do a Brazilian course without your basic course anywhere in the UK.

Re HD Brows or any other accredited brow course..........you don't need to have done any other course first as they are stand alone courses and you learn everything you need to learn re brows on those courses.

 

[dee]

i must have been out of england for too long this has me completely confused , lol i thought if you had a basic waxing qualification ie level 2 nvq etc.. you could then go on to do your intimate waxing with say kim , andy , lori in the states etc...

i mean no disrespect kim but you mention "your technique " as far as i know theres only certain ways to remove wax which have been about for many many years ,
do you mean people who train with you cannot then teach other people ? i wouldnt have thought they couldnt anyway i thought you need a teaching diploma ? i think its pttls ? like i say i might be wrong coz i dont live in the uk anymore

 

[Decadence]

Hi guys!

What other training do you have? Will you solely be doing Kim Lawless waxing? For our insurance, there is a pre-requisite attached to the course, namely you need to have completed a basic Level 2 in waxing. Have you done that? If you have the basic pre-requisite, then you can get full membership
Kind regards
The BABTAC Team

I think this say it all

 

[PinkSwoon]

I think this say it all

This is exactly what I'm thinking, it's driving me nuts!

 

[Kim Lawless]

i must have been out of england for too long this has me completely confused , lol i thought if you had a basic waxing qualification ie level 2 nvq etc.. you could then go on to do your intimate waxing with say kim , andy , lori in the states etc...

i mean no disrespect kim but you mention "your technique " as far as i know theres only certain ways to remove wax which have been about for many many years ,
do you mean people who train with you cannot then teach other people ? i wouldnt have thought they couldnt anyway i thought you need a teaching diploma ? i think its pttls ? like i say i might be wrong coz i dont live in the uk anymore

If you have a basic qualification you can do Brazilian waxing training with anyone you like.

'i mean no disrespect kim but you mention "your technique " as far as i know theres only certain ways to remove wax which have been about for many many years'
Yes, 'my technique' which I'm very proud of, is a different way of waxing. Just like Vidal Sassoon's technique wasn't simply another hair cut or HD Brows are the same as anyone else's or Shellac is just another nail polish.

No........I do not mean that people who train with me cannot teach other people. They just cannot teach my technique. Like a lot of other companies here in the UK now who have taken the time to develop something different, students are required to sign a confidentiality agreement to protect ourselves.

 

[dee]

so do you mean you have a set procedure of working ? as opposed to a different way of applying and removing wax ? please dont think i am criticising i am just trying to understand all this
am sure your technique is obviously really good and works well , i know you have worked your bum off over the years to gain a respected business ,
as i havent trained with you i cannot know what your technique is iykwim ? i am only going by my own training which i did years ago , lol

 

[Kim Lawless]

so do you mean you have a set procedure of working ? as opposed to a different way of applying and removing wax ? please dont think i am criticising i am just trying to understand all this
am sure your technique is obviously really good and works well , i know you have worked your bum off over the years to gain a respected business ,
as i havent trained with you i cannot know what your technique is iykwim ? i am only going by my own training which i did years ago , lol

Yes I do have a set procedure of working Dee.

When you're next over in the UK, come and have a Brazilian wax free as a present from me to you and you'll see what I mean.

Just looked at your site and your Up do's are amazing, so wouldn't you agree that technique is a true skill? :Kissing:

 

[BABTAC]

Hi guys,

Sorry! That should have said Level 2 or equivalent! We accredit and insure Kim Lawless waxing so please don't panic. We have a full list of pre-requisites in the office, so please call on Monday if you are worried.

The BABTAC team

 

[angelina221]

I'm confused. So do certain insurance companies only insure courses accredited by them? So if I wanted to do an accredited course on say waxing, but that particular course wasn't accredited by that insurance company, then they wouldn't insure you? If that was the case then you'd end up with different policies for different treatments! That doesn't sound right so I'm sure I must have that wrong!
Also the Guild say they will only accredit courses where the trainer is qualified, the course content is up to standard and the trainer has a teaching qualification. Well that's how it should be so that's good. But they won't insure Kim's courses so one could deduce that they are saying that Kim hasn't fulfilled one of the criteria. However, Babtac have the same policy for accrediting courses and they will insure Kim's courses so she obviously has fulfilled the criteria. So how can 2 insurance companies have the same criteria and yet one will accredit a certain course whereas the other one won't? I don't get it.
I think a lot of insurance companies are going to be bombarded with questions on Monday morning. I'm with DBI and I know I will be giving them a call next week to double check a few things.
It is quite worrying that we rely on being insured. I know when I was with Salon Gold, if ever I wanted to question anything they would also say the same thing, 'you need to check with your course provider'.
So does that means that if the course says it's ok then you are insured? I'm not sure it does to be honest. Oh insurance is a bit of a minefield.

 

[80's Girl]

Also the Guild say they will only accredit courses where the trainer is qualified, the course content is up to standard and the trainer has a teaching qualification. Well that's how it should be so that's good. But they won't insure Kim's courses so one could deduce that they are saying that Kim hasn't fulfilled one of the criteria. However, Babtac have the same policy for accrediting courses and they will insure Kim's courses so she obviously has fulfilled the criteria. So how can 2 insurance companies have the same criteria and yet one will accredit a certain course whereas the other one won't? I don't get it

Kim isn't accredited by The Guild because she chose not to pay them for accreditation.

 

[MissOwen]

I'm confused. So do certain insurance companies only insure courses accredited by them? So if I wanted to do an accredited course on say waxing, but that particular course wasn't accredited by that insurance company, then they wouldn't insure you? If that was the case then you'd end up with different policies for different treatments! That doesn't sound right so I'm sure I must have that wrong!
Also the Guild say they will only accredit courses where the trainer is qualified, the course content is up to standard and the trainer has a teaching qualification. Well that's how it should be so that's good. But they won't insure Kim's courses so one could deduce that they are saying that Kim hasn't fulfilled one of the criteria. However, Babtac have the same policy for accrediting courses and they will insure Kim's courses so she obviously has fulfilled the criteria. So how can 2 insurance companies have the same criteria and yet one will accredit a certain course whereas the other one won't? I don't get it.
I think a lot of insurance companies are going to be bombarded with questions on Monday morning. I'm with DBI and I know I will be giving them a call next week to double check a few things.
It is quite worrying that we rely on being insured. I know when I was with Salon Gold, if ever I wanted to question anything they would also say the same thing, 'you need to check with your course provider'.
So does that means that if the course says it's ok then you are insured? I'm not sure it does to be honest. Oh insurance is a bit of a minefield.

I thought the same thing. Reading between the lines, if sounded very much like there was a particular reason why these courses aren't accredited.

It has opened a cab of worms for other companies though hasn't it?

It would be helpful if they all had a list of training schools that they cover like the guild do.

I am currently with salon Gold but I panic that their lack of concern in who I trained with will end up with them suddenly deciding it is a certificate they don't accept if I ever had reason to claim.


Sent from my GT-I9505 using SalonGeek mobile app

 

[Baggybear]

I'm confused. So do certain insurance companies only insure courses accredited by them? So if I wanted to do an accredited course on say waxing, but that particular course wasn't accredited by that insurance company, then they wouldn't insure you? If that was the case then you'd end up with different policies for different treatments! That doesn't sound right so I'm sure I must have that wrong!
Also the Guild say they will only accredit courses where the trainer is qualified, the course content is up to standard and the trainer has a teaching qualification. Well that's how it should be so that's good. But they won't insure Kim's courses so one could deduce that they are saying that Kim hasn't fulfilled one of the criteria. However, Babtac have the same policy for accrediting courses and they will insure Kim's courses so she obviously has fulfilled the criteria. So how can 2 insurance companies have the same criteria and yet one will accredit a certain course whereas the other one won't? I don't get it.
I think a lot of insurance companies are going to be bombarded with questions on Monday morning. I'm with DBI and I know I will be giving them a call next week to double check a few things.
It is quite worrying that we rely on being insured. I know when I was with Salon Gold, if ever I wanted to question anything they would also say the same thing, 'you need to check with your course provider'.
So does that means that if the course says it's ok then you are insured? I'm not sure it does to be honest. Oh insurance is a bit of a minefield.

Kim doesn't fulfill the criteria for the Guild because they will ONLY cover courses that are accredited by them. Kim has DECIDED not to PAY the Guild to be accredited by them (she chose to be accredited by BABTAC instead :wink2.

I thought the same thing. Reading between the lines, if sounded very much like there was a particular reason why these courses aren't accredited.

It has opened a cab of worms for other companies though hasn't it?

It would be helpful if they all had a list of training schools that they cover like the guild do.

I am currently with salon Gold but I panic that their lack of concern in who I trained with will end up with them suddenly deciding it is a certificate they don't accept if I ever had reason to claim.


Sent from my GT-I9505 using SalonGeek mobile app

If you are at all concerned that your certificates may not be accepted then send an email with scans attached, asking do the attached certificates cover me to do xyz treatments.

I have done this and have kept the replies (for cluster lashes & waxing), if they ever told me the certificates are not good enough I have it in writing that they said are (which would help me if I needed to go to court etc...).

 

[MrsHBeauty]

Kim's courses are accredited by Babtac. Kim said in a previous post that she chose Babtac and not the guild to accredit her courses.

Babtac will insure courses accredited by the guild. And I know a few other insurance companies will insure both Babtac and the guild accredited courses.

The problem seems to be misinformation from the guild. As the do not Insure any courses not accredited by them.

That does not mean that any courses not accredited by the guild are rubbish, even though I agree not feels like the guild are implying that.

The best thing to do is ring your insurance get them to confirm in writing that they offer cover for the certificates you hold, or want to go and train in. You can't reply on forums for definite answers on such important matters

Ps I have done guild accredited courses and the difference in quality was huge. One was truly awful! In my opinion anyone can pass these strict rules but it is really is they actually deliver such courses. It's a bit like ofsted really, does Outstanding make it a great school???
Edit: Please don't answer that, I was thinking out loud and I do t want to open up a whole new can if worms.


Jemima

 

[angelina221]

Kim isn't accredited by The Guild because she chose not to pay them for accreditation.

Ah I see. So the Guild will only insure courses that are accredited by them then? Which means you could end up paying for separate policies for different treatments then? I always thought that if you had a qualification for a certain treatment and the course you did was accredited, then you were covered. Do the Guild ask to see copies of your certificates then? I think if companies did this then at least you would know.
I think I will do what Baggybear suggests because no insurance company has ever asked for me to send them copies of my certificates!

 

[squidgernetball]

Hi all. I am a nail tech but have also been an insurance broker for 9years. Just to say you don't have to always go to salon gold, the guild etc to get your insurance. Many brokers will offer public liability and salon insurance too which will cover you for most treatments. Liability alone is usually minimum premium around £50-£60 but obviously this will vary from person to person.

I'm am sure my colleagues will be happy to quote anyone xx

The only thing I would add to this is that the policy I had with a generic insurers many years ago was a bit of a one size fits all. I didn't have to show certificates, and found that it wasn't as flexible as the beauty insurance I have had since. This is fine if your insurance requirements are straightforward, which mine weren't! After reading the small print I found there were some exclusions which I didn't have with an insurance company that specialises in beauty!

 

[squidgernetball]

Ah I see. So the Guild will only insure courses that are accredited by them then? Which means you could end up paying for separate policies for different treatments then? I always thought that if you had a qualification for a certain treatment and the course you did was accredited, then you were covered. Do the Guild ask to see copies of your certificates then? I think if companies did this then at least you would know.
I think I will do what Baggybear suggests because no insurance company has ever asked for me to send them copies of my certificates!

I think this is what has caused a lot of concern. If you read back, a therapist says he sent certificates which the Guild now say are for a course they don't cover.
They have dealt with his concerns directly so we obviously don't know the outcome, but I would have thought that sending certs would mean you're covered!

 

[Baggybear]

Ah I see. So the Guild will only insure courses that are accredited by them then? Which means you could end up paying for separate policies for different treatments then? I always thought that if you had a qualification for a certain treatment and the course you did was accredited, then you were covered. Do the Guild ask to see copies of your certificates then? I think if companies did this then at least you would know.
I think I will do what Baggybear suggests because no insurance company has ever asked for me to send them copies of my certificates!

Yes the Guild only cover courses that are accredited by them.
You could end up paying for more than 1 policy to ensure you are covered BUT there is no need for that, other insurance providers (BABTAC, Salon Gold and many more) WILL cover courses that are accredited by the guild & BABTAC & other accredited courses.
The ONLY way to know if you are covered is to check with your provider. Send them an email attaching your certificates and ask.
It is normal for insurance providers to only need to see your certificates when you claim because they then don't have to store the copies of all your certificates in accordance with the data protection rules unless a claim is made.
Seeing certificates before offering you cover SHOULD give you peace of mind but it would seem this is not 100% either. Jack said in his post that he showed the Guild his Kim Lawless intimate waxing cert & was told he was covered but he is now looking for another insurance provider - this tells me he isn't covered (as it's not a Guild accredited course) even though he told them about the course & showed them his cert.

 

[shedunlop]

I think it's fair to say that we can all choose who we insure with and if Kim's courses are accredited by Babtac the it is them you should maybe go with or others who will accept her courses, there are plenty of them.

I do think it is important, however, that we, as trainers, know who will insure our courses and inform our students accordingly. At the beginning of this thread Kim said that The Guild do insure her courses and that is what started the confusion.

I have known for a very long time that The Guild only insure courses accredited by themselves and it has been discussed on here before too. I don't understand why so many, long standing therapists are not aware of this as they have not kept it a secret.

I chose them to accredit my courses as their criteria wasn't wooly like some of the other companies I looked at. I feel that I know where I stand with them and, although I do disagree on some small bits with them, I feel that they are genuinely attempting to keep standards up, in an industry that seems to be in a downward spiral standards wise, by closely following Habia's guidelines.

I don't think their fees are prohibitive either. Successful trainers can afford to be accredited by more than one company. I have just started out on my training journey after 18 years in the industry and would apply for accreditation with other large companies if it were needed. It made sense to go with The Guild as other companies will insure their courses but if I went with Babtac I would be leaving my students with less of a choice of insurer.

 

[SarahW64]

I'm insured with Salon Gold and have cover to face paint. I did have to provide proof of training (certificate) which they investigated. Might be worth speaking to them again x

Thanks ill contact them again and ask them :-\ xx

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[Kim Lawless]

I'm confused. So do certain insurance companies only insure courses accredited by them? So if I wanted to do an accredited course on say waxing, but that particular course wasn't accredited by that insurance company, then they wouldn't insure you? If that was the case then you'd end up with different policies for different treatments! That doesn't sound right so I'm sure I must have that wrong!
Also the Guild say they will only accredit courses where the trainer is qualified, the course content is up to standard and the trainer has a teaching qualification. Well that's how it should be so that's good. But they won't insure Kim's courses so one could deduce that they are saying that Kim hasn't fulfilled one of the criteria. However, Babtac have the same policy for accrediting courses and they will insure Kim's courses so she obviously has fulfilled the criteria. So how can 2 insurance companies have the same criteria and yet one will accredit a certain course whereas the other one won't? I don't get it.
I think a lot of insurance companies are going to be bombarded with questions on Monday morning. I'm with DBI and I know I will be giving them a call next week to double check a few things.
It is quite worrying that we rely on being insured. I know when I was with Salon Gold, if ever I wanted to question anything they would also say the same thing, 'you need to check with your course provider'.
So does that means that if the course says it's ok then you are insured? I'm not sure it does to be honest. Oh insurance is a bit of a minefield.

Yes it is confusing so I'll try to explain it.

Any trainer that wants to have their courses accredited can choose who they like to accredit their course. You can choose one company or more.

I chose BABTAC and it cost hundreds of pounds, so I don't see that I should have to pay all of the other insurance companies hundreds of pounds with an annual fee to accredit my courses too. Surely the stringent checks by BABTAC are sufficient.

Here's where the problems lay:-
BABTAC and all (or at least most) other insurance companies will accept any accredited course as they believe that if it is accredited then the appropriate checks and standards have been met.

However, The Guild will only insure you if every course that you're qualified in has had their courses accredited by The Guild. That means that if you want to do a lash course accredited by The Guild but a tanning course that is accredited by any other insurance company........they won't cover you. The Guild are unique in that if you're insured with them..........every single treatment that you trained in has to have been accredited by The Guild.

Other insurers such as BABTAC, Salon Gold, etc etc don't do that; they give you the freedom to do whatever courses you like as long as the courses that you have done are accredited by a recognised body.

I would love to have my courses accredited by every company, including The Guild, but I don't see the need and it would cost thousands by the time you finished paying them all and their annual fees.

Another confusion is that it's hit and miss and many of my students have been covered by The Guild for my courses and sent their certs in and then some are refused.

Hope that explains it Angelina.