More lifting issues - help please

[Trish1234]

I used to have quite severe lifting but figured this was because my product app was too thick in zone 3 and was touching the cuticles etc.

Since then I've been really careful with my prep and made my app thinner, now I can still see some lifting - even though I can clearly see I've left a small gap between the product and the side walls/cuticle, not severe lifting this time but some.

Why would this be? Maybe my L&P is too wet (although I use the going going gone method and it doesn't seem to be), or I figured maybe when I was filing and buffing after I had finished applying that I was filing too much?

Also do you need to always put a top coat on, I just buffed to a high polish and didn't apply a top coat?

Help please, I'm at a loss as to what I could be doing wrong now!

 

[ValencianNails]

How long after application do you see the lifting?
Is it on your own nails, clients, or both?

Perhaps it is your prep?

Talk us through what you do during prep :hug:

 

[Bagpuss]

Prep...Mix ratio and application can all cause lifting....are you pressing your bead...?

 

[Trish1234]

I think maybe I am not pressing my bead to the nail plate firmly enough? I find this difficult cos I want zone 3 as thin as poss and dont want to press to0 close.

My prep is

Thoroughly wash hands/dry
Appky nail sanitiser to hands and nails
Apply cuticle remover and push back, remove all non living tissue
Wash off cuticle remover and dry hands
Gently key nail plate using 240 file paying partic attention to cuticle and side wall areas
Dehydrate nail bed with acetone - all over nail for NNO and just around cuticle and side wall area when tips have been applied
Primer

thats it' not sure if I'm doing this right or wrong, I was actually taught dry prep by my tutor but found this wasn't efficient enough so use a cuticle remover.

Any thoughts?

 

[ValencianNails]

These tutorials should help you...
http://www.salongeek.com/nail-application/8671-brush-control-part-1-getting-grip.html
http://www.salongeek.com/nail-application/8748-brush-control-part-2-getting-angles.html

If it's a ratio problem then this one... http://www.salongeek.com/nail-application/8912-product-control-part-1-mix-ratio.html

And this one for zone 3... http://www.salongeek.com/nail-application/9200-product-control-part-4-zone-3-making-disappear.html

hth's :hug:

 

[nailzoo]

What product are you using? much advice in here is in relation to Creative, but some people use another product ...... and they do work differently.
If you are not using Creative make sure your prep had dried.

The when you apply your primer make sure this has dried.

When filing around the cuticle area use a fine file (240 Grit) if you use a coarse grit, this leaves coarse lines (microscopic) but can lead to lifting by natural oils seaping down and through the coarse structure left by a harsher grit file.

As taught to me by Geeg, when in doubt, go even finer and use a satin buff to really smooth the acrylic into the natural nail....... there should be no definition between natural and false. If you can tell where the false nail starts, then thats where it will lift.

Angle the file/buff so it is flush with the natural nail, you may see pictures with a definate line around the cuticle, you actually shouldn't be able to see this line at all, it should be so subtle and discreet, you can't tell one from the other.

 

[Trish1234]

I'm using the brand that was in my training kit as I'm still training - it's Dream - don't know if it has a good rep or not!

 

[ValencianNails]

What product are you using? much advice in here is in relation to Creative, but some people use another product ...... and they do work differently.

The advice given and info asked for isn't product based at all and the tutorials/articles posted are by Gigi!

 

[nailzoo]

The advice given and info asked for isn't product based at all and the tutorials/articles posted are by Gigi!

But most are in relation to Creative, I don't wish to start an argument, but some products work different to others, some, if you wait, the chemical reaction has/is already taken place.

You cannot possibly assume that one method is correct, products and their setup times change all the time.

Although the basic method and structure remains the same, it cannot possibly be "standard", I respect your respect for Geeg, as I also respect her, but sometimes if you count, 1,2,3,4, the product is rocksolid.

The structure of the nail is the same, but the application method can vary according to product, setup time and manufacturers instructions.

Valencian, I respect your respect, but different products are different products, sheesh they have to be, otherwise if they were all the same you wouldn't be so quick to shootdown anything that wasn't Creative, because obviously, if you didn't, they would all work the same and be the same.

I am saying things from a "Nailclass" point of view, not a product point of view.

And if they aren't, where is the line drawn? I'm sure as hell my product doesn't work the same.

But ........ the structure of the nail should be the same.....

You are advising this girl from a Creative point of view, but she may not be using Creative and in that case, product application is different, but the end structure should be the same, thats the point of "Nailclass" and you are clouding it's point by drilling home the Creative way, when infact there are many many products.

Nailclass and Geeg instructions are loosley based on Creative, but they are more about the perfect "structure" of a nail.

Otherwise Nailclass would be a Creative Training Manual...... which it isn't, it's for everyone.

 

[charshaun]

All respect to Creative but Nailzoo makes a very good point.

 

[ValencianNails]

How long after application do you see the lifting?
Is it on your own nails, clients, or both?

Perhaps it is your prep?

Talk us through what you do during prep :hug:

These tutorials should help you...
http://www.salongeek.com/nail-application/8671-brush-control-part-1-getting-grip.html
http://www.salongeek.com/nail-application/8748-brush-control-part-2-getting-angles.html

If it's a ratio problem then this one... http://www.salongeek.com/nail-application/8912-product-control-part-1-mix-ratio.html

And this one for zone 3... http://www.salongeek.com/nail-application/9200-product-control-part-4-zone-3-making-disappear.html

hth's :hug:

All respect to Creative but Nailzoo makes a very good point.

Would someone please point out to me where in my 2 posts (quoted above) I mentioned any brand names?

:grr:

 

[Cathie!]

Would someone please point out to me where in my 2 posts (quoted above) I mentioned any brand names?

:grr:

You didn't but different systems have different application methods and different ratios. Nailclass is based on CND application and ratio and it isn't the same for every nail system. I have been trained to quite a high standard in both CND and EZF and they have different ratios and different application. That's why we always recommend a conversion course on here.

However, the vast majority of Nailclass is product generic.

Waiting to get shot down!

 

[Bagpuss]

where in Nailclass does it say that the methods are CND....?

The fact is that the thread starter (sorry trish1234) has asked for help with lifting....she was given links to a few great tuts on ways that could help her...brush control...and product control...are these not things that every tech, regardless of what brand they use could benefit from...adapting these techniques to suit their product training....

Just because i have been taught 1 way does not mean that I am blinkered to other ideas...If i was having lifting and was struggling to sort the problem i know i would want any help and advise available to me.

You might just take 1 or 2 tricks from them tuts...along with your usual methods and solve the problem.

 

[The Geek]

So the lesson here is... don't offer any help if it is based on techniques of another system? Even if that help is relevant? Even if the help that is offered is not specific to any system? How is the other advice given any more relevant?

All of the articles that were linked do not specify a specific manufacturer or even a specific mix ratio. They are generic.

Maybe we should all just wait for a Dream educator to come and help just in case.

 

[Mrs Geek]

I used to have quite severe lifting but figured this was because my product app was too thick in zone 3 and was touching the cuticles etc.

Since then I've been really careful with my prep and made my app thinner, now I can still see some lifting - even though I can clearly see I've left a small gap between the product and the side walls/cuticle, not severe lifting this time but some.

Why would this be? Maybe my L&P is too wet (although I use the going going gone method and it doesn't seem to be), or I figured maybe when I was filing and buffing after I had finished applying that I was filing too much?

Also do you need to always put a top coat on, I just buffed to a high polish and didn't apply a top coat?

Help please, I'm at a loss as to what I could be doing wrong now!

Hey Trish, I have read you request for help and looked at your PREP. I am thinking that the 'acetone' may be the cause of your lifting. Acetone can often be buffered and contain oil which in turn will repel the L+P from the nail plate.

Are you buying the acetone from a local place or is it part of the system? Mainly PREP (or lack of) is the official downfall for lifting but application can also determine.

If the acetone is leaving a 'layer' of oil (you may not be able to see it but it doen't mean it's not there)... on the nail plate... this will definitely cause lifting!

If you think that is the case you may want to invest in a good PREP sanitiser that is designed to remove dirt and pathogens.

Hope thsi helps!!:!:

 

[min11]

I agree about the acetone although have no clue if thats what your training recommended. Maybe you could call who you trained with and ask for a 1 to 1 with your tutor? :hug:

 

[Trish1234]

The acetone is the Dream acetone provided in the kit and the tutor advised us prepping this way to remove oil etc.

I do have a spray nail sanitiser for files and for nails, which says it prepares the nail surface, maybe this on a lint free cloth or cotton bud would dehydrate instead?

I can see the lifting even the next day, like I say not severe, just a thin little line all round.

 

[411]

Hi Trish1234,

I have the same problem, when i do Acrylics?

They lift from near the cuticle, so within a week it is lifting fron the cuticle.
I use the better bond on the natural nail, then apply the acrylic,but it keeps happening.

 

[xbarbigirlx]

The acetone is the Dream acetone provided in the kit and the tutor advised us prepping this way to remove oil etc.

I do have a spray nail sanitiser for files and for nails, which says it prepares the nail surface, maybe this on a lint free cloth or cotton bud would dehydrate instead?

I can see the lifting even the next day, like I say not severe, just a thin little line all round.

Hi hi

Did your kit come with a primer? Instead of using the acetone. Near the cutical area and side walls make sure your brush is pushed onto and patt the acryl to secure it.

xoxox.

 

[Trish1234]

Yes I use the primer after the acetone, maybe I'm not patting enough!