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Muis Creative Conversion Gripe

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mui

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sawasdee ka

I have a question to ask please .

In America if a lady trains with ezflow and she wants to buy creative product does she have to do conversion course or is this only in England .

If it is only in England who makes this rule .

If a lady does not go to a company to train but goes to a salon and does not get certificate is this lady not qualified because in Asia many girls go to salons to learn where they have 1-2 -1 with a nail tech master artist not a short course in a school with many other girl but you maybe will not get certificate .

I only ask this because i do not understand if a girl go to a salon and is trained by master tech for 2 weeks 1-1 is she not qualified because she did not train with a company .

I think everybody right not want to have product with somebody not train but does a company certificate mean everything and is l&p not about liquid and powder control and do creative think that we are all so stupid that we can not with a little bit of practice use there product after we have used other products for a year .

i realy do not understand you only want the product in creative trained hands are all the other companys training no good .

I have winning nails video and 2 tammy taylor videos come to Thailand soon will this not be like a teaching about how to use the product .

Sorry for many question but i want to know this .

Thank you mui from Thailand
 

Do-it-all Deb

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I have to say that until I joined the geek board I really did not fully appreciate the importance of understanding the chemistry of a product. I do not currently use L & P although I have trained in this, but in general terms I am able to offer so much more to my clients when I understand what is in a product. I have started to use some Creative products because I can gain such an in depth understanding about their products. This contrasts to another company that I am currently training with that is not supplying me with this in depth understanding that I feel I need.

Just my thoughts on this aspect!
 

MissNailPro

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mui said:
sawasdee ka

I have a question to ask please .
In America if a lady trains with ezflow and she wants to buy creative product does she have to do conversion course or is this only in England .
If it is only in England who makes this rule .
If a lady does not go to a company to train but goes to a salon and does not get certificate is this lady not qualified because in Asia many girls go to salons to learn where they have 1-2 -1 with a nail tech master artist not a short course in a school with many other girl but you maybe will not get certificate .
I only ask this because i do not understand if a girl go to a salon and is trained by master tech for 2 weeks 1-1 is she not qualified because she did not train with a company .
I think everybody right not want to have product with somebody not train but does a company certificate mean everything and is l&p not about liquid and powder control and do creative think that we are all so stupid that we can not with a little bit of practice use there product after we have used other products for a year .
i realy do not understand you only want the product in creative trained hands are all the other companys training no good .
I have winning nails video and 2 tammy taylor videos come to Thailand soon will this not be like a teaching about how to use the product .
Sorry for many question but i want to know this .
Thank you mui from Thailand
Hi Mui!! How are you?? I hope well....

Here in the States- almost all (except for Connecticut-no licensing for nails :mad: ) you have to have a license to purchase product at professional distributors.

You do not have to take a course to purchase any products. They are strongly recommended- and in the case of CND courses- what you pay for the course (or class) includes a kit of the product.

Licensing is a tough subject- here we have licensing- however just because you have a license and can buy product shouldn't mean you can go and practice on the public...

but unfortunately that's the way it is...

not enough money & legislation to enforce any more than basic licensing :mad:

That's why I'm striving to become an Educator for CND :o - to help all technicians improve their abilities :biggrin:

Have a great day!
 

mui

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MissNailPro said:
Hi Mui!! How are you?? I hope well....

Here in the States- almost all (except for Connecticut-no licensing for nails :mad: ) you have to have a license to purchase product at professional distributors.

You do not have to take a course to purchase any products. They are strongly recommended- and in the case of CND courses- what you pay for the course (or class) includes a kit of the product.

Licensing is a tough subject- here we have licensing- however just because you have a license and can buy product shouldn't mean you can go and practice on the public...

but unfortunately that's the way it is...

not enough money & legislation to enforce any more than basic licensing :mad:

That's why I'm striving to become an Educator for CND :o - to help all technicians improve their abilities :biggrin:

Have a great day!
Sawasdee ka i am good thank you .

I read all today about training in America and many girl not happy with training and some happy .

So what you speak is in america when a girl is qualified she have a licence and she can buy any company product and creative as well .

So the rule about the conversion course is not creative worry about a qualified tech that train with another product or company it is a rule by England that they only want to sell to tech that they have conversion course .

Now i know thank you for your post .

I think now if a qualified tech buys creative product from ebay is only same some body go in a shop in america or buy over the internet same company same product same qualified tech only trained with another company america
if the company is happy to sell qaulified tech in america they should have the same in England .
mui from Thailand
 

naturalnails

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mui said:
......
I think now if a qualified tech buys creative product from ebay is only same some body go in a shop in america or buy over the internet same company same product same qualified tech only trained with another company america
if the company is happy to sell qaulified tech in america they should have the same in England .
mui from Thailand
Mui,

the problem in the UK is that we have no licensing at all so if we did what you were suggesting then a person could do a 1-2-1 with another nail tech in a salon who maybe did a 2 day course 10 years ago and is teaching a new tech.

Creative/Designer Nails have the reputation of the brand to protect and they do it in the best way they see fit and it works very well in the UK.
 

Nailsinlondon1

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A creative conversion course here in England works like this..................
You buy the creative L&P product kit and you get the conversion course for free !!!!!!

So as a matter of fact, training for qualified Technicians with one year expirience in L&P who would like to use Creative L&P is actually free !!!!!! No charge !!!!!

I think thats a pretty good idea...........So I can't see what the problem is........It is free education !!!!

These are the UK rules, made for the UK and apply to the UK, for UK Technicians..........
Other continents othere rules, rules that where made for them..........
 

geeg

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Hi Mui,

We have had this conversation before about the so called 'Creative rules' in the Uk and I will tell you who made up the rule 'no class, no product ... I did!

I will explain again to you that until about 5 or 6 years ago now, there were only 3 companies in the UK who even offered any training and the colleges found it practically impossible to find any trainers to teach nails. So they hired any old nail technician with a salon in their area to teach (without any teaching ability or qualifications) just so they could offer the courses and make some money! (as always there were a few exceptions ... thank goodness)

Other companies just starting up in the UK were selling to anyone regardless of whether of not they had had any training at all and in allot of cases they had had none. (most still do so)

The only way that a standard could be created at that time was to enforce it ourselves (at Creative) so that we knew who was buying our product and that they knew what to do with it and that they were insured correctly (another 'rule' that I enforced. No insurance, no product).

Dr. Stuart Nordstrom - the Founder of Creative Nail Design had the philosophy that the company still adheres to today, that if you innovate new technology, then you must educate along with it so that the technicians using it have the advantage of full product knowledge and therefore the ability to use the product with complete understanding and safety. I make no apology for this stance as it is to everyones benefit when building a prospeous, sucessful business.

Until the time when we can be sure that a standard is in place for all technicians, then Creative will continue to take this road. If technicians want to be arrogant and say ... "well I don't need a class, I can use any product" ... then that is their option and their loss in my opinion. I think we can always learn more and if the comments we get on Creative Classes are anything to go by, then this has proved to be true time and time again through the positive comments regarding what they have learned on Creative Classes.

Indeed this web site has brought Creative education to many who have appreciated it very much and it is all for free. Everyone who loves this site and has learned so much here, can thank Creative ... for the teachers on this site who give so much of their time are Creative Ambassadors.

You have had a 'bee in your bonnet' about what goes on in the UK Creative-wise for more than a year now and have brought this subject up before and I have answered before similarly to the post above. I hope this post has given you more understanding as to why we do what we do and will continue to do what we do as part of our mission to 'train the best equipped nail technicians using the highest quality products with knowledge and complete understanding'.

I can only guess as to what is your motive or concern regarding the stance Creative Nail Design has taken regarding education in the UK? The conversion class does not cost the technician anything but some time, and they gain immeasurably from the class. Sounds like a win win to me. I can see nothing negative and really can't see why it bothers you so much.
 

mui

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Geeg

I posted 2 nice post i only ask if it is the same for all countrys .

Why do every body only want creative products in the hand of creative trained tech other companys can teach as well only ladys on this board think that creative products should not be sold to qualified techs not trained with creative its not same in america and creative is a american company if i am not wrong .

We sell our creative products liquid and powders in Thailand to anyone that has been trained so ruth is right countrys are different we are same america .

Mui from Thailand
 

Nailsinlondon1

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mui said:
Geeg

I posted 2 nice post i only ask if it is the same for all countrys .

Why do every body only want creative products in the hand of creative trained tech other companys can teach as well only ladys on this board think that creative products should not be sold to qualified techs not trained with creative its not same in america and creative is a american company if i am not wrong .

We sell our creative products liquid and powders in Thailand to anyone that has been trained so ruth is right countrys are different we are same america .

Mui from Thailand
Hi Mui,
Geegs post explained why the rules are like this..........
Yes Creative is an American Company...........Distributed in the UK by a UK Company, ...................
We are in the UK and we have our rules ..............
The USA have ruling that you have to have a Nail Technicians license to buy professional products........... except for Connecticut-no licensing for nails.....
So there are rules !!!!! They still have to proof that they are fully qualified state Technicians!!!!!!!!

Like I said before, in the UK, It is free training for Qualified Techncians that would like to change over to include Creative L&P in their services................

It is FREE !!!!!!! It is FREE !!!!!!!
So the Technician buys the L&P and gets a free course and education............
Whats so wrong with that !!!!! Afterall they would have to buy it to use it !!!!
So why not take advantage of the FREE training................

And if they are not qalified then they shouldn't be doing nails for the public and charge for it anyway ,as they would not be insured.......and that illegal here in the UK........
 

geeg

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mui said:
Geeg

I posted 2 nice post i only ask if it is the same for all countrys .

Why do every body only want creative products in the hand of creative trained tech other companys can teach as well only ladys on this board think that creative products should not be sold to qualified techs not trained with creative its not same in america and creative is a american company if i am not wrong .

We sell our creative products liquid and powders in Thailand to anyone that has been trained so ruth is right countrys are different we are same america .

Mui from Thailand
Other companies may be able to teach how to do nails ... what they cannot teach is how Creative products work and the chemistry behind them. I was the uk DISTRIBUTOR for Creative and I made the rules for my country based on my judgement of the market and lthe level of training at the time. As of yet my oinion hasn't changed ... maybe one day others will decide differently as standards improve.

Any and I mean any, well trained technician could pick up Creative Retention+ or Radical systems and probably do wonderful nails with the product because it is so easy to work with ... agreed ... but they would not have the slightest understanding OF the product.

If we had no rules, Any badly trained technician could aslo pick up Creative systems and do horrible looking nails and cause all sorts of problems because they would not have the slightest undertanding of the product or the beauty that we want our technicnas to create with the product. WE are not prepared to let this happen.

We make it EASY for the technicians to switch and as Ruth and I said, it is free.

So I guess the answer to your question is YES there are, it would appear, different rules in different countries because countries differ and standards differ. But I think your post said allot more thanthe simple question you re-presented above.

We have (rightly in my opinion) put high standards in place to go along with a high end product, that we don't want to see trashed by untrained or badly trained or even well trained technicians because they don't know how to use it..

By the way ... as I have said before, we don't teach how to do nails on our conversion class ... we teach product knowledge BUT the technicians generally leave the class doing better nails than when they came in because they have learned so much by watching our brilllient Ambassadors (a good majority of whom are competition winners) demonstrate their skills with the product.

Is there lisencing in Thailand??? If not you are not the same as in America and should not be selling product to technicians without education in that product line. Thats called being greedy ... sell to anyone just to make a buck and never mind if they can use the product correctly? Maybe your way ... not our way.
 

MissNailPro

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geeg said:
The only way that a standard could be created at that time was to enforce it ourselves (at Creative) so that we knew who was buying our product and that they knew what to do with it and that they were insured correctly (another 'rule' that I enforced. No insurance, no product).

Dr. Stuart Nordstrom - the Founder of Creative Nail Design had the philosophy that the company still adheres to today, that if you innovate new technology, then you must educate along with it so that the technicians using it have the advantage of full product knowledge and therefore the ability to use the product with complete understanding and safety. I make no apology for this stance as it is to everyones benefit when building a prospeous, sucessful business.

Until the time when we can be sure that a standard is in place for all technicians, then Creative will continue to take this road. If technicians want to be arrogant and say ... "well I don't need a class, I can use any product" ... then that is their option and their loss in my opinion. I think we can always learn more and if the comments we get on Creative Classes are anything to go by, then this has proved to be true time and time again through the positive comments regarding what they have learned on Creative Classes.
I agree 1000% wholeheartedly with you Gigi--- and I sincerely WISH that it were the same here in the US...... why oh why can't it be! :sad:

It is very frustrating for me - as a lover & user of Creative for over 13 years to have contact with other techs who "just can't make it (creative products) work" :rolleyes: And yet for almost all of them, they've never attended a class!!!!!!!!! (UGH! :evil: )

There are some states that have requirements to renew your license (CEC's or CEU's)- and this is a VERY GOOD thing- unfortunately it is not a nationwide standard :sad: And for some states, licensing is a joke (take my state- Massachusetts- it's a MEASLEY 100 hours! :rolleyes: ) And we even have one State- Connecticut- where you don't need a license to do nails :eek:

I believe in the principle that you mentioned - Dr. Stuart Nordstrom's- it's unfortunate that purchasing product doesn't come with the prerequisite of classes... it would solve so many techs problems before they arise!

I am thankful to Creative for my success in my career- and can't wait to share all that I can with other techs (just have to pass Boot Camp first! :o )

Also- just because all you need is a (state) license to do nails, doesn't make it right-- that you can buy any product you choose.

There just isn't enough money and legislation to enforce otherwise-- atleast not here in the States. :sad:
 

mui

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30 bottles of 8.3 oz hand and body lotion
3 bottles solar oil 2.3 oz
3 solar butter 3.5 oz
3 solar manicure 5 oz
18 solar speed 1 oz
3 super shiney top coat
3 sticky base coat
36 bottles enamel

In america this is a collection and we pay 425.85 cents 236.58 uk pounds it retails in your country to your customers for 1458 pound is this the word you use greedy we sell your enamel for 5 pounds and sometime 4 pounds i do not think we are greedy .

No geeg techs want products to work and it is up to them what products they use it is a free world if they have had training how can you say they are not qualified enough .

Sometimes what you speak is good but sometimes you speak no good your techs after they have done a 4 day foundation course are not as qualified as people you think are not ready to use creative products sorry geeg you are wrong .

Thank you for your FREE time .
 

mui

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my last post should say 1458 dollar you sell for in uk you work out how many pounds you have a calculator .

I must go tell my sister to make our creative products price lower some more because we are too greedy i will sit down after and see how low we can go with your products to make a little bit so we are not greedy .

We can have a good education on geek site not only about nails and we can have free education about who we are as well .
 

geeg

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You love to deliberately miss the point of every one of my posts, Mui so you can try to score a few of your own ...

After doing nails for only one year, you seem to be the world wide expert on journalism, importing foreign goods, education, prices, nail art, infact everything to do with the subject. Yet you tell me that your salon nail business is not doing well, so now you are into product distribution over your web site as well as nail training in order to survive. From your last post I presume you are a non-profit making organization and as someone posted earlier, you just do it all for love?

Well I am not going to critisize you Mui, because actually I do admire your tenacity and your ambition in a country where there is a huge amount of competition .... BUT I'm sure we would all appreciate it if you were not always so critical of the way we run our busineses here in the UK. Your personal opinion may be that I am wrong as you put it ... others do not agree with you ... that is what makes the world go round. I am obviously not going to change your mind and you certainly are not going to change mine with the arguments you have put forward.

You have made it quite obvious regarding what you think of us here in the UK yet I would bet any money you yourself have learned more form this web site than you ever did from the nail education you got from a salon owner in Bankok. You have used this site extensively in the past and were very eager to learn all you could ... You still use it now every time you need an epert answer to a question others can't answer.

The people who use Creative here in the UK and in the other countries around the world, who take the exact same line we do regarding education,
are proud to be associated with the company and to use the wonderful products Creative manufacture and are very loyal to the brand. I don't think we can be doing things so badly.

I have answered the question you asked in your post. That should be enough for you. Lets not stir up any more bad feelings.
 

mui

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Geeg sawasdee ka

If you take nearly every one out of london for 6 months i am very sure that the salons in london for the 6 months would not do much buissness as well we are a tourist part of Thailand next high season will be very good .

Yes we studied all your ideas about nails products distribution nail art every thing we learn from your country and other country from around the world we have always said thank you .

No we are not expert we are learning every day and will for many many year to come .

I am happy you posted about my licenece because i went to look when date finish i must go to the govermant office soon to make new yes all girls work in beauty salon have to have a licence we have to make the goverment licenece that have 3 signiture and 2 goverment stamps and a photo every year with update of any new education we have and we can have inspection anytime i am also trained in reflexology by a thai ministry of education school .

Yes geeg i am doing fine thank you i speak and read and write two lanquages i am learning to speak japanese soon when i have money for school i have my own salon i have a baby i have small money now because i put every thing back into my salon .

Yes geeg some times we do no good in the salon i am now in low season doing nails for usa 12 dollars for thai people but i am happy i am working and i am practiseing and being paid money and yes i have learn a lot from this website and beautytech and just looking at all the education on the internet .

If i was in England i would not be listening to anybody about price and trying to have 40 pound for a set of nail i would be like the other asian people doing 8 set a day 8 x 20 x 6 x 52 50000 for one year not sitting doing nothing because worry about working cheap .

Thank you for all your kind free advise i am sure it will bring happiness to me my family my friends that i give your advise to free and bring happiness to my future .

We will all be very happy when we all sit watch the winning nails video soon every nail tech that know me will want to look for sure .

Mui
 

geeg

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Good morning Mui,

Well London is a tourist centre too, but thank goodness the nail salons there do not rely on tourist trade for their business. It is hard when that is the case and as I said, I admire that you do so may things and take advantage of every opportuity to better both your and your collegues lifestyles.

However, making 50,000.00 a year would not even pay your rent or rates in London and you would be starving. I think 40 x 8 x 6 x 52 sounds allot more realistic to me. In fact if I worked in London, I would be charging even more, and I woud get it too.

I hope you have a lovely day and a good season when it starts.
 

The Geek

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hmmm. Seems some were busy typing late last night and early this morning.

I am splitting this thread as it has nothing to do with selling CND products on ebay (which sadly you can get really any professional hair, skin, or nail products on).

As far as the Conversion requirements go... I think that has been beaten to death (but I will kick this dead horse one more time for prosperity):

As the USA is the only country with licensing requirements (and hence a plausible working standard) MOST countries that sell CND have conversion requirements to prevent people working unsafe with the system. Heck, a lot of other pro brands do as well.
The conversion course is a short term rip off for the distributors as they lose serious money holding them, but a great deal for the nail tech as they are simply buying the product that they would have to buy in order to use the system in the first place (at a serious discount) and getting free education on top of it.

Also: A conversion is not always required. Since an NVQ lvl 3 is supposed to be a standard, we accepted this as a standard good enough to be qulaified to purchase the system without a conversion course. Saying that... the people coming in to our classrooms with this qualification more often than not leave a lot to be desired.

Regardless, if they wanted to use CND, then they would have to buy the product right? Buy it at a cheaper rate in the kit and hey... get some education with it as well. Sounds pretty dang simple to me.

Regardless, I am not sure why you are so pissed off as you are refering to something that takes place in the UK, quite a bit of distance from Thiland.

Anyway... I think what needs to be said has already been said by everyone here.

Toodles
 

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I personally applaude any company who insists on a conversion course for any qualified technician, no matter where in the world...

I have dabbled with two L&P in the last 6 months and both work completely differently to each other... and I know that with training I will learn how to get the best out of both and become a better technician....One of these systems I have now been trained on and the other was a Freebee to test and if in time I chose to use the second product I will then go on a conversion course glady to ensure I get the best out of the product and dont break my insurance policy.

If i am being trained on how to use a product on a conversion course and I get the products free to that value then thats fabulous....

However I dont beleieve that our 100% of our American cousins who can purchase Creative will all be the best Nail Technicians just because they are licensed (I mean to cause no offence to those that are and are fabulous). But I beleive just because you have a license, not matter how many stamps or signatures on it doesn't mean you might be worthy - Government Funded Colleges in the UK still have a massive varience on the standard of training and it will probably be a long time before these evaluations are consistant throughout...

I would glady be will to be tested annually to prove to the world, my peers, customers however that I am worthy of my chosen profession and any company that helps to move towards this by trying to stop unskillfull technicians from practicing with their products and which could give the brand a bad name incorrectly is fine by me...

Thats my lot...
 

dee

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in my humble opinion i like the way it is , it means we as trained technicians know why the product works, how it works etc, any one can get hold of professional products and make a total mess, just look at what people do to their hair with home perms etc, and they do it wrong because they dont understand the workings of the products, and then blame them when all thier hair falls out or whatever, in this industry i think most of us do pay out a big percentage of what we earn to keep learning and improving, but we do it coz we want to , so we can better ourselves and gain more knowledge etc, i like it the way it is,
 

mui

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geeg said:
Good morning Mui,

Well London is a tourist centre too, but thank goodness the nail salons there do not rely on tourist trade for their business. It is hard when that is the case and as I said, I admire that you do so may things and take advantage of every opportuity to better both your and your collegues lifestyles.

However, making 50,000.00 a year would not even pay your rent or rates in London and you would be starving. I think 40 x 8 x 6 x 52 sounds allot more realistic to me. In fact if I worked in London, I would be charging even more, and I woud get it too.

I hope you have a lovely day and a good season when it starts.
Geeg i did not reply or start a thread named muis conversion gripe so i will ask you to ask the nail geek nerd to take this name off this thread please i am not happy about this .

I have just checked with some England men that are on holiday in Thailand and they have said MOST men in England dont have 100000 salary in one year for work i wonder how many nail tech on this board from 2300 members have a husband that has 100000 salery or nail tech works as a nail tech get 100000 in one year .

I think if you are going to speak as the big boss of this board speak straight because you embarrass yourself .

Mr geek if you do not take the name off this thread that i did not start me and your your web site will have a big problem .

I asked only a question in another thread and as always if it does not suit the creative team and there friends they get angry it is just another case of the geek doing something to get rid of someone that does not agree with everything that the team says .

Thank you in advance for removing this thread .
 
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