Re: staff member issue

[lores]

Blimey tbh if it was me I would be saying to s/e I'm hoping to get a receptionist / therapist in next year so we have some one in to answer phone ect when we are not there and the cost of that will be factored in to rent review as its benefits' both parties also does your landlord give your a 4week break .... No so why are you

This sounds like the ideal negotiating tool, straight to the point and fair:biggrin:

 

[CHarvey]

Have we actually spoken to her before assuming she is doing this on a regular basis? Perhaps she had to close early on this one occasion because she fell poorly or had to go to the doctors herself?
I'm employed at my salon so I stay till closing but the self employed stylists leave earl if the gave an appointment elsewhere or simply because they have had a cancelation at the end of the day and want to take advantage of the fact that they are self employed.
Perhaps you should employ a receptionist or accept that you should pay the stylist an hourly rate so that she has the reason to stay?
Ps I don't know how you manage so well with a business and a child with special needs, I'm full of admiration for you xx

 

[Lisgxxx]

This sort of of attitude is what puts me off staff entirely!

Why the hell should asking for the salon to be open a set amount of hours be turned down because someone is self employed.... All the salons I've been in always ask this and staff don't get their knickers on this much of a twist!

I agree too!!

It was my post the other day about the staff member wanting a week off in December. Needless to say I told her I wouldn't be needing her in salon anymore as I needed someone with a bit more dedication.

All I want is someone to work alongside me with the sane views and understanding as I do. And who wants to be there and wants to build them self up a reputable client base. But no this is pricing to hard!

 

[happyfeet]

Hmmm I'm wondering, what is in your rental contract between yourself and your self employed therapist?

I sort of see it from both views, on the one hand yes it does not look good on the business if no one is there and it's closed. If no one is there, no bookings can be made, so lost revenue and walk ins can't be taken.

However on the other hand as a self employed person she rents an area/room/desk from you, isn't employed by you, so I can see the view that she does not need to keep the salon open as it's not her salon to do so, just the area she rents. But that's horses for courses really isn't it, the salon needs to be open in order for her rental area to be open.

As an added thought, I once dated a self employed electrician, he had to be a work at a certain time to do a certain job, that finished at a certain time, if he didn't do this he was off the job.

The thing is, I don't know the true ins and outs of self employed staff, from both salon owner and SE positions. On the one hand I know I wouldn't want to rent a space to someone who turns up as and when, as there is no continuity and you're left wondering when the SE is going to work, you can't have someone who rents a desk for the whole week but only works on Mondays- but by some of the comments on here it would appear she could (ok I'm giving an extreme case here but you get what I mean). It's tricky, and certainly because of the situation youre in lovely :Love:.

Out of interest for those in the know about S/E staff/contracts, can the salon owner stipulate in the contract BEFORE it's signed when the therapist must be there? If this possible to do and I would have thought it was, and it's signed to, then the therapist self employed or not should be expected to work there in between the set hours. As my opening statement says, I think it largely depends on what is written in your contract I would have thought.

 

[alldrick]

I think it's sad that work ethics has seem to be gone , when I was s/e I thought I need to do well as if the ower doesn't make it that the roof above my head gone , az a salon owner I won't s/e any more as there work ethic is I do what I want I'm s/e sooo the moral of the storey is own a salon make u own revenue bonus is anything extra

 

[MTHair78]

It is the responsibility of the salon owner to be present if they want he salon open a certain number of hours. I am self employed in someone else's salon, and I am self employed for the freedom of being so. I would not put up with a landlord wanting me to cover hours where I am not making money...
Now if I were the salon owner. I would practically live in the salon, as that would be my responsibility.
As a salon owner, if you are unable to tend to your business properly, for whatever reason. You should think about selling ownership of the shop, with an agreement that you stay on as self employed yourself. You cannot dictate a self employed renter's work schedule.

 

[xsammi82x]

I'm sorry but, I disagree.

I am a salon owner, I am there nearly every waking minute of my life. S/E staff have to be there during all opening hours on their days to work. It is just as much their responsibility to fill book spots as it is mine so if they are not busy, then then they need to do something about that.

I think that the roles have been reversed for some reason.

To the OP, it is tough for you as you have so much on already, I would see if this was a first time and just say that you would prefer it that the salon was open until closing time and that you will have to take on someone else if she wasn't able to o this.

I do think you need a receptionist but you also need a stylist/therapist to be there.

Whatever happened to being passionate about your work??

Good luck xxx

 

[laurakate]

This sort of of attitude is what puts me off staff entirely!

Why the hell should asking for the salon to be open a set amount of hours be turned down because someone is self employed.... All the salons I've been in always ask this and staff don't get their knickers on this much of a twist!

Why? Because nobody works for free and because there are clear guidelines on directgov.com on this sort of thing.

 

[justpampered]

I think regardless of who is right or wrong here, common courtesy would surely be the s/e staff member closing the shop would call salon owner to say its not busy, I'm closing?!

Whichever way you look at it I would find that alone disrespectful. A phone call wouldn't hurt. I see both sides but if the salon owner cannot be there for whatever reason, they should be informed the salon is closing, then they have the option to go down there themselves.

I would call a meeting and if there is not a contract in place maybe discuss and mutually agree on how to go forward from here.

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[Bluerinse]

Why? Because nobody works for free and because there are clear guidelines on directgov.com on this sort of thing.

Why does everyone now follow what directgov.com say?

What happened to the days when people actually used to work! And they would be thankful for a job of any sort! Nowadays people feel it's below them to "clean" or do something that is not directly linked to the job!

 

[izzidoll]

Well yes she is self employed. How about just talking to her and asking if she would mind staying until closing when you are not available? She may well do it, especially if you mention that she could get someone come in on the off chance or passing on their way home etc. She might just need a gentle nudge to remind her. Give it a try and see what happens. You wont know what to do until you try it out. If she doesnt want to then get a receptionist or someone who could stay.

I think regardless of who is right or wrong here, common courtesy would surely be the s/e staff member closing the shop would call salon owner to say its not busy, I'm closing?!

Whichever way you look at it I would find that alone disrespectful. A phone call wouldn't hurt. I see both sides but if the salon owner cannot be there for whatever reason, they should be informed the salon is closing, then they have the option to go down there themselves.

I would call a meeting and if there is not a contract in place maybe discuss and mutually agree on how to go forward from here.

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The contract theory would still apply as it is still a business relationship reliant on mutual benefit.

All beneficial events need to be equal or reciprocal for the business to survive, in your case everything balances as it stands. In the case of the OP this balance has tipped away from the salon owner toward the contractor, which is why the situation needs to be addressed.

I think your point is very valid and no one who has posted is wrong either way.

I think to help resolve the OP's original dilemma the issues for the business need to be laid out and re-negotiated so both parties agree on how to move forward and work together.

I don't want this to sound like it's going round the houses, but it is how this type of business works. If everyone doesn't agree it needs to be bashed out until a new agreement or compromise is made

x

I think these posts show the way forward for the OP.
Communication is key here, sit down and talk to this girl, maybe she did have a good reason for shutting early on this occasion, but basic ground rules need to be discussed and agreed to.

I am self employed, provide all my own equipment and stock, I pay rent every week of the year, and I set my own hours. My Landlord is my sister, I shall maybe discuss having a 4 week rental holiday from her.......and then wait for her to stop laughing :lol: or :smack:
I do set my own hours and walk in and out whenever suits me, which means some late starts and early finishes...however, this does not involve closing the salon as my sister is always there, and also I have enough of a clientele that I don't need any walk in business.

I don't think this thread really is a anything to do with a good work ethic...come on we all have had quiet days and just shut up shop and gone home

The OPs situation is different so if she wants someone there to keep the salon open she needs to discuss it with the current girl, or consider hiring a receptionist.

 

[lea2721]

Tomme ,im with you ,if you want your shop to be open certain hours employ someone simple as ,and leave the self employed to do there own thing as that is the hole point in being self employed,you ether want the pros and cons of one or the other you can not have both :-/

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Agree with this x

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[lea2721]

I can see both point of views but in my eyes you cant have the best of both worlds if want some one to be open set tomes etc then the responsability is down to you or for you to employ some one as some one whos self employed and rents a space / chair can not be told what hours to work etc as it says its law you cant just pick names its what work there doing etc what defines there employed status,
How ever theres nothing wrong im asking her and if she agrees then fine but if not then get a receptionist like some one rlse suggested x

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[Bluerinse]

I can see both point of views but in my eyes you cant have the best of both worlds if want some one to be open set tomes etc then the responsability is down to you or for you to employ some one as some one whos self employed and rents a space / chair can not be told what hours to work etc as it says its law you cant just pick names its what work there doing etc what defines there employed status,
How ever theres nothing wrong im asking her and if she agrees then fine but if not then get a receptionist like some one rlse suggested x

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Is the receptionist gonna do a client? Think not! All this notion that self employed stylists come and go as they please is complete tosh! As said above if your self employed your merely a contractor... Without the salon you couldn't work!

 

[JuZz'<3]

When I was a junior all 6 of the stylists were self employed and had to do the hours. At least 3 stylists had to be in the salon regardless of whether it was busy or not, so they would sort between them who had busy mornings and slow afternoons would leave early and the others would start a little later and finish at closing. This was more of them working together as a team though and worked well. But the salon was always open for its full set hours!

Maybe you could consider getting somebody else in?
Then they can work together on hours making sure someone is in the salon from opening to closing.

If she is looking for flexible hours maybe mobile would be best for her?

I agree with Blue above, what happened to the days of people actually wanting to work? It's funny how our government complain so many are unemployed but then our employed/self employed moan about it and don't want to put the hours in!!
She could be missing out on extra money just shutting up a few hours early, why would anyone risk that?
I myself like to just drop in to the salons as I'm passing I don't book appointments. So that could of been me that day, wandering by, but she lost work.

 

[Kim Lawless]

I think there is a difference between a therapist that is running their own private business inside another salon (as I've always done). However, if you're working as part of a team on the shop floor, there has to be a mutual agreement between you all to keep the shop open and running.

To the original poster……..I know you have a lot of your plate but make it a goal for 2013 to be more assertive and take charge and run your business…..even if it's from afar. People treat you how you allow them to treat you. x

 

[Lisgxxx]

[QUOTE=JuZz'
I agree!

All I expect in my salon is for everyone to work as a team. At the end of the day we r all there for the sane reason, to make money, so the salon being closed isn't helping anyone out. And you'd think that this girl would have a bit more compassion for the op seen as she's tending to her little one. It's not as if she's out doing her Christmas shopping is it!

 

[Tjo]

I found this on the government website.

If you are self-employed you do not have a contract of employment with an employer.
You will also pay your own Income Tax and National Insurance Contributions.
You do not have employment rights as such if you're self-employed since you are your own boss and can therefore decide, for example, how much to charge for your work and how much holiday to give yourself.
You do have some legal protection, however. You must not be discriminated against and you are entitled to a safe and healthy working environment on your client's premises for example.

It's a difficult subject, but i have found from previous experience some salons want the ease of having self employed staff, so don't have to pay tax ni holiday etc but still want to dictate when and how the individual works, you can't have it both ways, your either employed or self employed.

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[lea2721]

I found this on the government website.

If you are self-employed you do not have a contract of employment with an employer.
You will also pay your own Income Tax and National Insurance Contributions.
You do not have employment rights as such if you're self-employed since you are your own boss and can therefore decide, for example, how much to charge for your work and how much holiday to give yourself.
You do have some legal protection, however. You must not be discriminated against and you are entitled to a safe and healthy working environment on your client's premises for example.

It's a difficult subject, but i have found from previous experience some salons want the ease of having self employed staff, so don't have to pay tax ni holiday etc but still want to dictate when and how the individual works, you can't have it both ways, your either employed or self employed.

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Agree and said very well x

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[lynn amber]

It is the responsibility of the salon owner to be present if they want he salon open a certain number of hours. I am self employed in someone else's salon, and I am self employed for the freedom of being so. I would not put up with a landlord wanting me to cover hours where I am not making money...
Now if I were the salon owner. I would practically live in the salon, as that would be my responsibility.
As a salon owner, if you are unable to tend to your business properly, for whatever reason. You should think about selling ownership of the shop, with an agreement that you stay on as self employed yourself. You cannot dictate a self employed renter's work schedule.

Exactly :-D

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