Trainee got another job in a salon but still with me
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laurakate
Well-Known Member
Hmmm, it sounds like a tricky one because when you say trainee, it makes me think of someone who is new to the industry who is simply trying to get as much experience (and money perhaps) as possible to support her in the long run. So I guess what you might have here is someone who is very keen to immerse herself in the industry as much as possible.
I guess from your perspective, it is a question of loyalty. If the trainee was seeking to be self employed in a way that would take customers away from yourself then yes, her motives would definately be questionable. In the current situation you describe, her actions do sound much less severe but I can see why you have your doubts.
In your shoes, I would be tempted to keep the door open for her at your salon but I would be interested to read what others say here.
Hope that helps
I guess from your perspective, it is a question of loyalty. If the trainee was seeking to be self employed in a way that would take customers away from yourself then yes, her motives would definately be questionable. In the current situation you describe, her actions do sound much less severe but I can see why you have your doubts.
In your shoes, I would be tempted to keep the door open for her at your salon but I would be interested to read what others say here.
Hope that helps
MissJulesBeauty
Well-Known Member
My first thoughts completely reflect yours Laura.
This sounds like someone who wants as much experience as possible.
Why don't you have a chat with her, talk about salon ethics etc. Could you offer her more hours to prevent her from seeking elsewhere...
You obviously know this person better than any of us, go with your instincts. Do you think she is the type of person to do your business wrong or is she genuinely keen to soak up as much knowledge of the industry as possible?
This sounds like someone who wants as much experience as possible.
Why don't you have a chat with her, talk about salon ethics etc. Could you offer her more hours to prevent her from seeking elsewhere...
You obviously know this person better than any of us, go with your instincts. Do you think she is the type of person to do your business wrong or is she genuinely keen to soak up as much knowledge of the industry as possible?
This girl is only with me because it's part of her course. She has no choice but to come to me. I can't offer her any hours as I'm quiet enough as it is and I'm sort of thinking if she wants to get in with the new salon and make an impression she might bad mouth me etc. Just unsure what to do
unas escarlata
Well-Known Member
I'd be concerned about her poaching. If you can let her go early, you should. Ensure your own customer service practices are second to none so your customers will stay loyal to you.
I've been bitten on the bum and learnt the hard way. Don't be fooled. She may be nice, but this is business, your business and you have to protect it.
x
I've been bitten on the bum and learnt the hard way. Don't be fooled. She may be nice, but this is business, your business and you have to protect it.
x
persianista
Well-Known Member
Personally I would put my salon security above all else, and let her go. Whether she would be able to poach is questionable, and whether she would talk about your salon in her new job is debateable.
My own experience is that it is far better to not let this situation develop than to have another problem to deal with down the line.
My own experience is that it is far better to not let this situation develop than to have another problem to deal with down the line.
If you stop her working at your salon, will it affect her course? Surely if she is with you through a work placement with college you must get some sort of funding for her?? (Is that not the case, I had assumed it was?)
If getting rid of her will mean she can't complete her course then it would be very mean to do it and if I were her, I wouldn't be bad-mouthing you now BUT I sure would if you caused me to fail a course I was doing! Also, as a customer I would not want to pay money to a salon owner who did stuff like that. It's really nasty.
I don't really see how it affects you if you keep her on tbh - if a trainee can poach your customers then you can't be very good, I don't see how that would happen. I also don't understand why you think she would bad mouth you 'to make an impression' - any normal, intelligent person would be distinctly UNimpressed with a new employee who bad-mouthed the person helping them to train. Have you done something to her to make her want to bad-mouth you??
Your post makes no sense to me, sorry! I can't believe so many people think you should fire her either. Utterly mystified.
If getting rid of her will mean she can't complete her course then it would be very mean to do it and if I were her, I wouldn't be bad-mouthing you now BUT I sure would if you caused me to fail a course I was doing! Also, as a customer I would not want to pay money to a salon owner who did stuff like that. It's really nasty.
I don't really see how it affects you if you keep her on tbh - if a trainee can poach your customers then you can't be very good, I don't see how that would happen. I also don't understand why you think she would bad mouth you 'to make an impression' - any normal, intelligent person would be distinctly UNimpressed with a new employee who bad-mouthed the person helping them to train. Have you done something to her to make her want to bad-mouth you??
Your post makes no sense to me, sorry! I can't believe so many people think you should fire her either. Utterly mystified.
unas escarlata
Well-Known Member
I actually find that comment totally offensive. Poaching of one's clients has absolutely nothing to do with how good you are at delivering a service. It has to do with greed on behalf of the poacher and the defectors.
If this had ever happened to you, there is no way you would make such an inflammatory comment. I hope it never happens to you because I promise you, it is truly unpleasant.
persianista
Well-Known Member
If you give a trainee a placement, you don't get paid to help her in her career. The idea is that you suppliment her training and give commercial experience in return for an extra pair of hands for a day. In this case, the trainees new salon can take over.
I would be uncomfortable with ANY of my staff working elsewhere, and I have non competition clauses in my contracts of employment. It is also a standard clause that staff may not use information or data gained in my salon in other employment.
IE they cannot nick client data, financial data or staff data.
In this industry it is common practice not to allow people to work notice when they resign. They are usually paid in lieu. This is so they do not comppromise salon security. Even a trainee is put in a position of trust regarding data, money and stock.
Out of all the people I have caught stealing in salons over my career (25 yrs), 70% have been trainees as oppossed to experienced staff.
I would be uncomfortable with ANY of my staff working elsewhere, and I have non competition clauses in my contracts of employment. It is also a standard clause that staff may not use information or data gained in my salon in other employment.
IE they cannot nick client data, financial data or staff data.
In this industry it is common practice not to allow people to work notice when they resign. They are usually paid in lieu. This is so they do not comppromise salon security. Even a trainee is put in a position of trust regarding data, money and stock.
Out of all the people I have caught stealing in salons over my career (25 yrs), 70% have been trainees as oppossed to experienced staff.
Good evening all,
I just wanted to tell you all a little something that may or may not help the situation
I am currently self-employed. I work in my home-based salon (yes all registered and fine) and I go out mobile if I need to.
My business has had to start again following a move from London to Chester, which only now, I'm getting more 'known'.
I was approached by someone who has offered me room-share but it turned out that the boss decided to keep me as an employee.
We talked and I was 100% straight in that the 2 days I work for her, I do not mention my business but if my clients desperately want me those 2 days, they can see me there at her prices and I still don't mention my business (so really,the potential is there for her to poach my clients if we wanted to be pedantic about that).
We have both had a few quiet months in our respective businesses but we actually brainstorm to get business in for the both of us. We've got a great relationship now.
Now the 2 days I am with her, i can swear on the bible that I am completely loyal to her and her business. The rest of the week is mine for me and my business.
But as I was still at a bit of a loose end, I was approached by someone else who has got a day's work a week in residential homes providing manicures to the elderly. I told this boss about the other boss and mentioned under no circs could I work for her on the days that I work in the salon so we agreed another day in the week. I still do not mention my business although I can offer treatments to the staff but NOT manicure/hands and this is in my contract.
I took this on as well because most of you know I lost my nan in October so I feel a bit better about it all doing sommat nice for our ol' folk.
So Friday, Sat, Sun and Mon are now for me and my business and Tue I'm at Res. Home and Weds/Thurs I'm at the salon.
Everyone knows about it, my business is actually in all honesty going on the back burner to accomodate these two jobs as I need a regular wage what with a 2 yr old, rent, bills, chrimbo, nursery fees etc.
At the mo, I'm taking all the ops I can get to be in this industry and make money.
In the long term, I still wanna be in this industry and make money.
Honesty and ethics is what is making this possible for me right now.
I'm just straight as I can be with everyone and I am lucky enough to have earnt their trust and respect.
To be fair, I am knackered and feel like I'm permanently in my car or at a petrol station and I don't really have much money still to show for it but it gets me out, keeps me fresh and gives hubby and me something to talk about in the evening as there's only so much CBeebies we can discuss.
H x
I just wanted to tell you all a little something that may or may not help the situation
I am currently self-employed. I work in my home-based salon (yes all registered and fine) and I go out mobile if I need to.
My business has had to start again following a move from London to Chester, which only now, I'm getting more 'known'.
I was approached by someone who has offered me room-share but it turned out that the boss decided to keep me as an employee.
We talked and I was 100% straight in that the 2 days I work for her, I do not mention my business but if my clients desperately want me those 2 days, they can see me there at her prices and I still don't mention my business (so really,the potential is there for her to poach my clients if we wanted to be pedantic about that).
We have both had a few quiet months in our respective businesses but we actually brainstorm to get business in for the both of us. We've got a great relationship now.
Now the 2 days I am with her, i can swear on the bible that I am completely loyal to her and her business. The rest of the week is mine for me and my business.
But as I was still at a bit of a loose end, I was approached by someone else who has got a day's work a week in residential homes providing manicures to the elderly. I told this boss about the other boss and mentioned under no circs could I work for her on the days that I work in the salon so we agreed another day in the week. I still do not mention my business although I can offer treatments to the staff but NOT manicure/hands and this is in my contract.
I took this on as well because most of you know I lost my nan in October so I feel a bit better about it all doing sommat nice for our ol' folk.
So Friday, Sat, Sun and Mon are now for me and my business and Tue I'm at Res. Home and Weds/Thurs I'm at the salon.
Everyone knows about it, my business is actually in all honesty going on the back burner to accomodate these two jobs as I need a regular wage what with a 2 yr old, rent, bills, chrimbo, nursery fees etc.
At the mo, I'm taking all the ops I can get to be in this industry and make money.
In the long term, I still wanna be in this industry and make money.
Honesty and ethics is what is making this possible for me right now.
I'm just straight as I can be with everyone and I am lucky enough to have earnt their trust and respect.
To be fair, I am knackered and feel like I'm permanently in my car or at a petrol station and I don't really have much money still to show for it but it gets me out, keeps me fresh and gives hubby and me something to talk about in the evening as there's only so much CBeebies we can discuss.
H x
In what way is supplementing training and giving commercial experience different from 'helping with her career'??
The OP has not suggested that she has any evidence whatsoever that the trainee is seeking or may seek to poach clients from her - the poor girl is presumably just trying to earn a bit of money by taking paid work, which the OP is unable to offer.
It's standard in many industries to not allow/require an employee to work their notice by the way - for a whole variety of reasons.
I still think that if you are good, and have a good relationship with your clients, there is no reason for them to go elsewhere to receive treatments from a trainee. There will always be a few people who want it cheaper (and good luck to them, I say - you get what you pay for and I'm not interested in trying to be the cheapest at anything) and a few who will listen to bad-mouthing but in my experience such people are very much in the minority. MOST people want a good service and MOST people will show loyalty if you are good and they like you.
It's a shame that you seem to have experienced such a high level of theft by trainees - if you are regularly employing trainees who steal from you, it's time to review your recruitment and reference checking processes I would think.
The OP has not suggested that she has any evidence whatsoever that the trainee is seeking or may seek to poach clients from her - the poor girl is presumably just trying to earn a bit of money by taking paid work, which the OP is unable to offer.
It's standard in many industries to not allow/require an employee to work their notice by the way - for a whole variety of reasons.
I still think that if you are good, and have a good relationship with your clients, there is no reason for them to go elsewhere to receive treatments from a trainee. There will always be a few people who want it cheaper (and good luck to them, I say - you get what you pay for and I'm not interested in trying to be the cheapest at anything) and a few who will listen to bad-mouthing but in my experience such people are very much in the minority. MOST people want a good service and MOST people will show loyalty if you are good and they like you.
It's a shame that you seem to have experienced such a high level of theft by trainees - if you are regularly employing trainees who steal from you, it's time to review your recruitment and reference checking processes I would think.
Unfortunately though, there are a lot of time wasters out there. People that have been stung are more wary, what's the saying? Once bitten..?
I'd like to think that in the case of the OP, the girl is just a hard worker (like me) and not a waste of space per se but I do try to see the good in everyone which is NOT a good thing as I have been stung myself in other aspects of life.
On my Level 2 at Bromley College, I helped everyone out but when I needed it none of the other students wanted to help. In fact, when we were getting our ranges/assessments, they would go out to reception and put their names next to clients for the following week so some of us had no clients and it was happening all the time so a few of us fell behind.
One girl even went as far as saying, "well, I got all my assessments, it's dog eat dog" which I thought was a really crap attitude. We were ALL there to learn but most of those girls made it an awful competition.
I actually had to go out of the building an pull a lady off the street to get my final Hot Wax Bikini for my exam on THE LAST DAY because no-one wanted to help me out.
I have some pet names for those people that I shan't mention and needless to say we are no longer in touch.
persianista
Well-Known Member
H Williams, I wish everyone had your ethics. You have also seen first hand what us Bromley employers often see.
I am gonna duck out of this thread now as it seems to be getting rather nasty.
I am gonna duck out of this thread now as it seems to be getting rather nasty.
LOL... Sadly, I have seen. I'd imagine after all your time in the industry, you'd have a seen it all, I only touched on that year and was ready to commit a murder.
Don't go it don't have to get nasty... That's why I piped in.
Love and ting!
x
unas escarlata
Well-Known Member
I'm ducking out too as clearly some people don't want to listen to the first hand experience other business owners have had when despite offering a top class/sensibly priced service staff have dumped on them from a great height.
The bitchy kind of comments about improving recruitment and training are grossly unnecessary. This makes me wonder why we bother offering expertise at all.
The bitchy kind of comments about improving recruitment and training are grossly unnecessary. This makes me wonder why we bother offering expertise at all.
Oh no...
I only commented to offer the flip side from where I stood because I'm doing a bit of everything to keep my bank balance afloat.
To be honest the 'comment' was a bit uncalled for especially as Persianista had already said that she'd been in industry many years. Surely if ANYONE has cracked recruitment it has to be her.
It really doesn't have to get nasty (again), hate it when threads go like this :sad:
Balance Andover
Well-Known Member
Hi
2-3 miles isn't far and this is a definite conflict of interest, I would let het go in the nicest possible way and find another trainee.
Michelle
FlawlessBeauty
Well-Known Member
If you don't need this girl and are quiet and unsure what to do with her, then maybe you could suggest that she moves her work experience to this other salon. It might benefit her more, being in a busier environment and then you'll feel more at ease too
I'd like to add that Persianista is an incredible businesswoman and all around amazing person for giving the rest of us such great, straight talking info when she doesn't have to. There is no need for rudeness...you can put forward your own opinion without getting personal.
HWilliams, i don't think that you have said anything inappropriate, your posts express your opinion, without getting nasty.
Also, i'm really sorry about the other girls on your training course. How awful for you! I was lucky that all the girls on my course were lovely and we all helped eachother out. I'm so glad that you have showed them, and done so well for yourself xx
I'd like to add that Persianista is an incredible businesswoman and all around amazing person for giving the rest of us such great, straight talking info when she doesn't have to. There is no need for rudeness...you can put forward your own opinion without getting personal.
HWilliams, i don't think that you have said anything inappropriate, your posts express your opinion, without getting nasty.
Also, i'm really sorry about the other girls on your training course. How awful for you! I was lucky that all the girls on my course were lovely and we all helped eachother out. I'm so glad that you have showed them, and done so well for yourself xx
Is this girl level 2 or level 3? Maybe she is needing work to pay her bills etc?? She is doing her work experience with yourself, but as you said you cannot offer her any more hours of any paid work which she may need, so has had to go to a different salon?
Of course the above is just speculation, as none of us know the girls situation etc etc..
Why not just talk to her about this?? Surely that is the most logical thing to do? If she purely needs the work for financial reasons, why could she not carry on at your salon? I take it you were not thinking of offering work once placement had finished anyway so she will be a handy pair of hands for a few more months. She will be also experiencing how 2 different salons are run.
I am in a similar situation myself - I am starting work placement - but as a single parent I need to pay my bills and put food on the table, needs must etc, so am also looking for a part-time job to fit in with college and placement - we are not all out to 'get' salon owners, or pinch clients - just wanting to learn as much as we can and earn some money to help get by!
Just putting a different slant on things.
Of course the above is just speculation, as none of us know the girls situation etc etc..
Why not just talk to her about this?? Surely that is the most logical thing to do? If she purely needs the work for financial reasons, why could she not carry on at your salon? I take it you were not thinking of offering work once placement had finished anyway so she will be a handy pair of hands for a few more months. She will be also experiencing how 2 different salons are run.
I am in a similar situation myself - I am starting work placement - but as a single parent I need to pay my bills and put food on the table, needs must etc, so am also looking for a part-time job to fit in with college and placement - we are not all out to 'get' salon owners, or pinch clients - just wanting to learn as much as we can and earn some money to help get by!
Just putting a different slant on things.
