What do you think of this?

[jcpark]

Oh poor you.
Can you go and get some legal advice, as this will at least give you the confidence to know exactly where you stand?

I think in order to establish who the clients belong to, these will be the important points:

Have you been solely responsible for advertising and promotion - have you incurred the costs of any advertising/promotion or have the hairdressers also contributed?

Has the hairdressers done any advertising campaigns for you?

Are all bookings taken by you?

Are all monies paid into your account and cheques made payable to you?

Do you pay a daily/weekly/monthly rent regardless of how many bookings you get?

The answers will help to establish your legal position as whether a separate business or working for the salon (whether an employee or self employed).

It is quite possible she is pushing her luck, so definately get all the legal help you can.

If these ARE your clients - then legally you are under an obligation to keep this information confidential, so it SHOULDN'T be left in the salon.... you can explain this to her.

Just as an aside, and has already been said.... clients will go where they want... and you may be surprised by those who remain loyal to you. ... equally, you may be surprised by those who don't... whatever, don't take it personally - smile sweetly, be professional - not only does it leave a positive impression, but I'm a great believer in what goes around comes around....good luck

 

[rouge]

Ok, here's what I'd do.
Tell the lady that because of the Data Protection Act you can't just hand over the record cards as you need to find out exactly who 'owns' them. Probably not the best choice of word but you know what I mean. This is a link to the Government agency that deals with the data protection act, I'd get in touch with them. https://www.ico.gov.uk/Global/contact_us.aspx DON'T hand them over until you know for sure one way or the other.

As for the other things you need to discuss with her, if you're concerned about getting upset when you talk to her, why not write yourself some notes? Make a list of everything you need to cover, and then go and see her. Maybe have a practice run with someone first so you can get things clear in your mind.

Good luck with it, and try not to let it get to you. Your and your baby's health is far more important. :hug:

 

[nicky n]

Hey everyone thanku so much for your replies i am going to get some advice about the client situation first then i guess i will have 2 be tough for once and speak to her lol!! Thanx again xx:hug:

 

[Layrex9]

ok so yesterday on the phone i could of cried coz she phones me and said she had been thinking that i should bring my client cards in incase i ever didnt come in and she could contact them! (i take them home coz i was told there was no space for me 2 keep my own there!! ) And i knew she was only saying it so they were there and i didnt have them when i left as she then said i think they sould be there anyway because its only fair that they will be passed on to the person who takes over from you!

I dont know where i stand and im such a wimp there are so many things i need 2 bring up with her but i am one of the most emotional people ever and as soon as i say something that i feel akward about i just cry so i know i have 2 do it but i dont want to! Im just very confused that she is treating me like i am employed!:cry:

Sorry all thats a bit long and moanish i know!!!Thanks for your help! :green:x

If I was in your shoes I would photocopy the client cards NOW so that you will have the details in the future regardless of what happens. Still go for the advice though.

 

[wooboo]

If the clients book with you, and you have their details, and you take the money directly and pay some form of rent or earnings tithe to the owner then you have your own business. If you haven’t registered yourself as a limited company, the inland revenue would recognise you as a sole trader. The inland revenue would also differentiate you as such further if you provided your own “tools of the trade” etc.

With regard to your client cards, the details on them are yours based on the above. Some talk of the data protection act has been made here, but you need to read it and have a think. It isn’t as hard to go through as you may think. In essence it covers the retention of individuals information as you know., But you need to understand how this information is to be kept and who has access to it. It breaks down to the following simple rules:

1) You can only hold the minimum amount of information on a person that you require. (name address phone number, other personal details (hair type, historical treatments etc)
2) Unless the individual(s) agreed at the time or prior to release, you cannot provide their personal details to unauthorised persons. (excluding the authorities Police etc)
3) The person whose details you hold (or their nominated representative) can request access to the information you hold on them, which you are legally required to give within a “reasonable” time period. However you are also allowed to make a charge to cover this up to a maximum of £10 per person. So if all the customers agree to have the premises owner have a copy of their records you can legitimately bury her in paperwork and charge her £10 per client card

To be fully compliant with the data protection act you need to register, but not registering isn’t a defence against not complying.

Lots of details on it are here: http://www.ico.gov.uk/what_we_cover/data_protection.aspx

However I think you are being painted into a corner and it is going to get a little difficult for you. I would suggest getting hold of a set of business cards and using them as your next appointment card or an offer card so that clients have your details. Also think about a mail shot to your client base letting them know what you are doing and how to contact you again later. It is only fair to give them notice too isn’t it? If a mail shot isn’t the best way for you, break the list up and call them over a period of time with a friendly message and your contact details.

To put your mind to rest over court action, to take a small claims court action out in the local court costs £25 and a claim must be under £5,000. However it will be extremely difficult for the woman to prove to a court that she had suffered consequential material loss if a client moved to you or to anyone else for that matter. The only way this type of action has worked in the past is when two parties are in collusion to breach an established contract with a 3rd party in order to make a new contract (I hope that makes sense) What is to say that the clients wouldn’t have just gone elsewhere anyway? In a retail customer environment it is almost impossible to prove in such a way that a court would act. Despite the cost per client she would also have to have a sworn statement from a customer that you had forced them to move from her and not moved by choice. Then there is the negative publicity she would attract and you would have to have the full list of contacts to use as part of your defence in such a case under the courts full disclosure rules. All this would be public as the court proceedings are a matter of public record. No one will look good in the short term, but then again you won’t be the one with a salon to fill with therapists that may be reluctant to join an organisation that like to litigate and has a bad name. And you won’t be the one with a building to pay standing costs on with customers that are reluctant to come in because there is a fight going on and they may end up as part of it.

With regard to anti competitive laws, i.e. setting up again but not taking a client from them for 6 months etc....these are equally rubbish. The isn’t any such law and is an local working practice and has no foundation in UK law. It is in effect restrictive trade for which there are many laws in place to defend against such practice. If you are worried about legal action against you talk to the citizens advice bureau http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/cabdir.ihtml or if you have legal cover under your mortgage policy (and sometimes car insurance) give them a call and ask further questions.

Whatever you do, don’t give up the contact list you have. Once they are out of your control you have lost any edge you have.

Also remember that whilst you are on this side of the argument now, in the future if you open your own place and work with a similar business model, the roles could well be reversed. If possible try for an amicable agreement, but if not. Watch you back and presume the worst.

Best of luck

 

[Lynne Baker]

To put your mind to rest over court action, to take a small claims court action out in the local court costs £25 and a claim must be under £5,000.

When I took out a small claims court action it cost £100. I wonder if the size of the loss determines the cost.

I know I'll get flamed again for saying this, but I do think that an awful lot of this kind of worry and stress (which is the last thing you need at such a special time of your life) could have been avoided had you had a contract in place. It's there to protect both parties. You may want to consider having something in place when you next take up a room.
Best of luck with it all

 

[wooboo]

It does depend on the amount you are claiming. the current fees in operation in county courts or such claims are here, http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex50.pdf you must have been claiming £3-£5k for that amount then. ouch. :cry:

I stand corrected that claims under £300 cost £30 each. If the salon owner were to try for remedy under this method she would have to either bring a full class action (as in all the claims under one action) or issue multiple small claims on a per client basis. If not all claims were made on the per client basis method then she would be reducing the impact of her claim by "cherry picking" affected clients.


But I agree with you, it is always best to have something documented to say where you stand and who ownes what ahead of the game so that when an end point comes (for whatever reason) everyone knows what to expect and where they stand. :hug:


EDIT:
As a further thought to the lady with the problem...
If you are going to be out of circulation for 6 months anyway how much harm can come from gracefully handing over the details and going on a full PR offensive with your clients about the future. This would give you a good working environment and reduce the arguments. After all they are going to go somewhere when they can’t access you and in this way you would know where the main body of them were going to be able to compete later? Worst case you advertise right outside the door with a side printed van parked across the street on key days with your details and prices on it when you start up again.

 

[The Queen Bee]

They are your clients....they come to you because they like having their treatments from YOU!

Its a dog eat dog world......and if you tell your clients your leaving i bet they will want to come to you where ever you treat them.

Sod her......take them all!!!!!!

 

[libby lou]

hi hun do not give her YOUR client cards they belong to YOU not her and both legally and MORALLY YOU HAVE A DUTY OF CARE TO YOUR CLIENTS TO KEEP THOSE DETAILS PRIVATE. YOU MUST KEEP THE CARDS FOR YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY THEY INSIST MINE STATES FOR 50 YEARS ! CHECK YOURS.SHE IS IN VERY MURKY WATERS HERE EXPLAIN ITS NOT YOU ITS YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY.also you are bound by law not to give these details but that you are happy to give names only if she insists.she does not employ you.you only rent a room she is not your employer she doesnt pay your wages.you have a duty of care to your clients and i would never give away they re personal details to any hairdresser/landlord it is private. please be firm hun it is very important to keep your client details private dont lose your clients trust .

 

[The Queen Bee]

hi hun do not give her YOUR client cards they belong to YOU not her and both legally and MORALLY YOU HAVE A DUTY OF CARE TO YOUR CLIENTS TO KEEP THOSE DETAILS PRIVATE. YOU MUST KEEP THE CARDS FOR YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY THEY INSIST MINE STATES FOR 50 YEARS ! CHECK YOURS.SHE IS IN VERY MURKY WATERS HERE EXPLAIN ITS NOT YOU ITS YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY.also you are bound by law not to give these details but that you are happy to give names only if she insists.she does not employ you.you only rent a room she is not your employer she doesnt pay your wages.you have a duty of care to your clients and i would never give away they re personal details to any hairdresser/landlord it is private. please be firm hun it is very important to keep your client details private dont lose your clients trust .

fantastic answer!xxx

 

[bombini]

OK Firstly I think you need to decide (if you haven't already) what is your plan for after you have the baby ? Are you going straight back to work full/part time ? If so where home, mobile, salon etc ?

The reason I think this is important is because whatever you choose may/may not suit your clients so if you say decided to have 3 months off with baby then go mobile your clients might not like this idea at all and just find another therapist, if they haven't already.

I understand your situation as I rent a room and am also due to have a baby next year but my plan is to sub let my room for a while and then go part time whilst hopefully another therapist does the other 2 days.

The salon owner doesn't sound like she knows what is is talking about to me and I know from what you've said I would hate to work with her, she definetley has no right to ask for the client details as they are your clients. Your clients may choose to stay on for the next therapist but she doesn't need your cards (or even a copy) when I started renting my room I had pretty much all the previous therapists clients and started them off on new cards.

I agree with Sassy that she may try and replace you now and if you have no contract she could probably have you out the same day. Do you think you can carry on working with her for the next few months ?

 

[nicky n]

OK Firstly I think you need to decide (if you haven't already) what is your plan for after you have the baby ? Are you going straight back to work full/part time ? If so where home, mobile, salon etc ?

The reason I think this is important is because whatever you choose may/may not suit your clients so if you say decided to have 3 months off with baby then go mobile your clients might not like this idea at all and just find another therapist, if they haven't already.

I understand your situation as I rent a room and am also due to have a baby next year but my plan is to sub let my room for a while and then go part time whilst hopefully another therapist does the other 2 days.

The salon owner doesn't sound like she knows what is is talking about to me and I know from what you've said I would hate to work with her, she definetley has no right to ask for the client details as they are your clients. Your clients may choose to stay on for the next therapist but she doesn't need your cards (or even a copy) when I started renting my room I had pretty much all the previous therapists clients and started them off on new cards.

I agree with Sassy that she may try and replace you now and if you have no contract she could probably have you out the same day. Do you think you can carry on working with her for the next few months ?

Yea i will carry on till march i dont think she will find someone brfore then but u never know and if she does then thats the way it is is it is after xmas i wont be that worried altho it will be slightly rude if she does that! lol! I plan to just keep my head down for the next few months get on with it keep everyone happy and then go whan i go! when is your baby due??