"Work experience", what are your views?

[Kristalinx]

Yes I agree. Such a shame you don't live down south. I would help you...providing you passed the trade tests that is..ha ha ...I could do with a mature apprentice/student on a Thursday and Saturday TBH.

Hehe I might have to move! I'm moving to Manchester next year, maybe I'll just keep moving until I find a salon that will take me!

 

[Becki2003]

I'm one of those annoying teachers who like to wind up children. My favourite conversation
Pupil: Miss can I lend a pen?
Me: No thanks I've got one.
Pupil: No Miss I want to lend a pen
Me: But I've already got one thanks
Finally we discover they want to borrow a pen xx

 

[fuzzyduck]

Some very true, wise words from Lynne, Che-la and Ryk.

When I trained all those decades ago things were so so different.
I lived on the South Coast and there was literally a handful of colleges to train at.
Brighton, Chichester, Bournemouth or the London College of Fashion.
Entrance a minimum of 6 'O'levels grade A-C.
Half the girls on my course had 'A' Levels.
Also a tough interview with the college Principle.
We too wore the starched white uniforms, white tights, white shoes and our hair in buns. No jewellery permitted and our nails were checked regularly as free edge couldn't be seen over back of fingers.

Our training was second to none. We were taught nutrition by a nutritionist, cosmetic science by a doctor, advanced business by the principle who had an MBA, beauty therapy by the most amazing lecturers whom we were in awe of I could go on and on.

Fast forward a few years. A dear friend was head of Beauty Therapy at a local college. She told me she was resigning from her post and having a complete career change. The reason was the NVQ qualifications were being introduced in she felt standards would drop and in her words " We are going to turn out a load of unemployable girls" even back then she could see the writing on the wall and standards have just continued to get worse.

It just seems that Hair Beauty and Child Care seem to be an easy option for these young girls. There's no passion.

No wonder many top spas and salons in the UK target their recruitment at South African, Australian and New Zealand Therapists they still have the same high training standards we had years ago!

 

[Carlalouise]

I agree with you ... I wouldn't.... But I get it in the neck when I post on threads the amount of salons that take apprentices for no pay as they need work experience...exploitation in my eyes and i will stick with my opinion.. My little 17 year old apprentice gets £5 per hour...how can anyone be motivated with the Government guidelines of pay. It's disgusting.

I have an apprentice, I'm a new salon and I was practically begged by the college to take someone on, I pay her an apprentice wage because, even though she has passed her level 2 she has NO IDEA what so ever on how to do any treatment that the college has deemed her fit and passed her to do!!!

I'm putting a lot of time and effort into her, advertising constantly for models to help her and having to take time out myself to oversea everything she does.

She is 17 and a young one at that, she cannot after many hours of training from myself see when the salon needs tidying or cleaning ( but then neither would my own 17 year old daughter!) at the end of the day teenagers are a different animal. However the one thing that really gets my goat is the fact that she has passed her exams and couldn't if her life depended on it do a file and polish let alone a manicure and don't get me started on waxing, I stopped her from doing that when I went to oversea and she had rubbed a gallon of oil on the clients legs and then mixed that up with powder!!!

I've spoken to the college and their argument was "she's a lovely girl but a slow learner" - THEY PASSED HER ON LEVEL 2!

Don't get me wrong, in some ways I'm lucky, she is a lovely girl and her customer service skills are quite good but that's because she's a sweet likeable person.

I won't give up on her as you never know, everything just might click into place, however I do think that what someone else said is right, if they're not that bright - get them into hair or beauty!!

 

[Elaine Armani]

What on earth does what'cha mean !?

 

[laurakate]

Schools and careers advisors need a better understanding of the hair and beauty industry. They need to know and have more respect for the skills required in industry and not just see it as an easy thing that exists as a vehicle to palm off the less academic students without giving it much thought.

My level 2 education left a lot to be desired but I'm reasonably intelligent and enthusiastic so I was able to do something about it by seeking further information from various sources. If a student doesn't have that intelligence and motivation it could leave everyone stuck between a rock and a hard place.

 

[Petit Basque]

When I was training, a secondary school nearby had started offering NVQ Level 1 Beauty Therapy and it was almost entirely populated by the disaffected and total no-hopers who were too thick and too badly behaved to do GCSEs and for whom the school believed a "vocational" approach would be better...

Therein lies the problem I think...

PB
x

 

[waxandpolish]

I totally believe that their are stand out trainees at all ages. I was just trying to say that from my experience that young trainees tend to get branded as lazy or lacking in customer service skills and the older ones are thought of as too expensive to take on. I think I have a slightly bitter view on this as an older student who just can't get a break. XD

I've had work experience people in my other business and they've been pretty good on the whole. Most of them were keen to learn and participate in everything we asked them. I found them frustratingly slow at times but that was my only real gripe. (I have a food business).

I also think it's a shame that people think that minimum wage is what you pay people. I've just employed 6 people to help me over Christmas. They are all under 18 apart from one and I'm paying them £7.50 an hour. I really value my staff because I couldn't run my business without them. If they work hard over Christmas they will also get a bonus. Carrot and stick ..... if they don't turn up because they are too hungover at the weekends they won't get anything except a telling off!

I happily pay more for the right staff but I do have high expectations of them. Appearances can be deceiving though - the permatanned, tight topped, black waist length extentioned girl from last year was my best employee and she ended up managing my business for me.

 

[Kristalinx]

I also think it's a shame that people think that minimum wage is what you pay people. I've just employed 6 people to help me over Christmas. They are all under 18 apart from one and I'm paying them £7.50 an hour. I really value my staff because I couldn't run my business without them. If they work hard over Christmas they will also get a bonus.

I would be happy even to get minimum wage! In Middlesbrough you can't get a placement because people don't even really want to pay the apprentice wage. :S

 

[Miss Sparkle]

I was 29 when I qualified, and I can tell you that at my college, the customer service and business training was non-existent. I learned all I know of business and customer services through my years of working in completely different industries (thankfully, customer service is fully transferable). But when I was 16, I didn't know by a*se from my elbow yet alone my way around a salon - I would've been useless with no customer service training!

 

[Deb]

When I was training, a secondary school nearby had started offering NVQ Level 1 Beauty Therapy and it was almost entirely populated by the disaffected and total no-hopers who were too thick and too badly behaved to do GCSEs and for whom the school believed a "vocational" approach would be better...

Therein lies the problem I think...

PB
x

When I was lecturing at a college we had a number of potential learner apply to do level 2 beauty as they had achieved level 1 in the schools; this is where the problem lay, as a college of FE we were expected to take these learners on, they would have support during the lessons (both theory & practical) My argument used to be that by accepting them onto level 2 training we were setting them up to fail - unfortunately as many know learners were expected to pass their training - again for funding.
I no longer teach in FE - and don't miss it at all.
I have had 2 young girls from local colleges on work experience; one was very successful and is now working for me - the other, well!! She was practicing her filing & polishing techniques on one of my older clients, whilst looking at a young lad walking past the salon, she comment to the client she wouldn't mind "doing him"!! Needless to say she didn't last long in the salon

 

[virtues2011]

When I was training, a secondary school nearby had started offering NVQ Level 1 Beauty Therapy and it was almost entirely populated by the disaffected and total no-hopers who were too thick and too badly behaved to do GCSEs and for whom the school believed a "vocational" approach would be better...

Therein lies the problem I think...

PB
x

This is valid comment. I don't mean this out of turn but 25 years ago this was the stigma attached to hairdressing and beauty, anyone trying to get into these industries wasn't very bright..I remember hearing this at school..."no money in that industry, you have to be thick to do that" so on and so forth! I'm confident enough to know that I'm not the only one that heard these remarks - but we all know that these remarks are not true and it takes years to become a qualified and professional therapist. What doesn't help is how easy it seems to be for younger people to just decide that they want a business so open up a beauty businesses because they think they can..that is where I feel it fails...You couldn't open up an industrial valve manufacturing facility so easily..lol (I only use this example as that is my background) ...

 

[WaxingNinja]

This is exactly why I got my PTTLS qualification, so I could re-train the students that we wanted to hire and bring them up to our standards even though they were apparently qualified?? I don't blame the tutors though, it must be difficult to get someone "polished" in the time given with the restraints of the curriculum these days. I wonder if students being allowed to pass when they are clearly not ready has anything to do with funding for the number that pass???? (call me pessimistic)

 

[laurakate]

This doesn't put me off wanting to teach in FE. It is my dream job. Even if I can't prepare everyone for immediate employment in industry, I would like to include things in my lessons (if possible!) so that everyone comes away with something even if that's just more confidence or the ability to apply for a job in another field. I can't change the system but I know that I want to help people in some way.

 

[laurakate]

This is exactly why I got my PTTLS qualification, so I could re-train the students that we wanted to hire and bring them up to our standards even though they were apparently qualified?? I don't blame the tutors though, it must be difficult to get someone "polished" in the time given with the restraints of the curriculum these days. I wonder if students being allowed to pass when they are clearly not ready has anything to do with funding for the number that pass???? (call me pessimistic)

I have done some of my vtct qualifications with private beauty schools and they said that they aren't in a rush to pass people who aren't ready because they're not dependant on funding from the government. They were saying this in the context of "a pass may be easier to get at a college because they *are* dependant on government funding whereas we aren't".

 

[virtues2011]

I have done some of my vtct qualifications with private beauty schools and they said that they aren't in a rush to pass people who aren't ready because they're not dependant on funding from the government. They were saying this in the context of "a pass may be easier to get at a college because they *are* dependant on government funding whereas we aren't".

I took all my qualifications through a private college, however this said they have your money upfront generally so it makes no difference to them to pass you quickly or not - they just have to rely on people who have the money in the first place to go on their courses. They would I believe speed up the process if someone with the 1k+ was waiting for a place to start. It is swings and roundabouts. I think the only hope you have is that your tutor is a good one!

 

[Kristalinx]

I have done some of my vtct qualifications with private beauty schools and they said that they aren't in a rush to pass people who aren't ready because they're not dependant on funding from the government. They were saying this in the context of "a pass may be easier to get at a college because they *are* dependant on government funding whereas we aren't".

I'm studying at a private school and a lot of the college students are sent to it from local salons. It's partially funded by the government but there's no rushing and have been allowed to choose when I feel ready for my assessments.

 

[laurakate]

I took all my qualifications through a private college, however this said they have your money upfront generally so it makes no difference to them to pass you quickly or not - they just have to rely on people who have the money in the first place to go on their courses. They would I believe speed up the process if someone with the 1k+ was waiting for a place to start. It is swings and roundabouts. I think the only hope you have is that your tutor is a good one!

A good tutor is vital I agree. With regards to the quality of education I have had, I don't think there is a hard and fast rule as to whether private or FE college is better because I have had mixed experiences of both.

One of the privately funded places where I did some VTCT qualifications said they weren't under funding related pressure to pass you for your qualification but on the other hand they did charge for every assessment day that you had to do so if you were borderline it may have been ok for them if you had to retake an assessment.

Another privately funded place where I did some VTCT qualifications were fantastic...I had to retake some assessments at no extra cost to myself and it made me better at the treatments as a result

 

[Ugg73]

That's good to know. My tutor keeps telling us about the "pacific" things we need to know and that for our exams, they will ask us (enter whatever) which is why she is going to "learn" us the correct terms. Had to bite my tongue everytime she said she would learn us something, is she our teacher or learner?
Drives me mad!!

That is unacceptable! How can the students be expected to learn - these are role models.

I'm just happy I have some life experience and come from a professional background. I hope to bring all these skills with me to my new profession. I think so many people do not class this field as a profession - certainly the young girls on my course obviously thought this course was going to be a breeze. We have girls saying that they didn't join the course to do science - classic!! They don't want to know the anatomy or affects/results behind the treatments - it is SO painful some nights!

Our tutors are tough and expect high standards - they question and challenge poor behaviour/attitudes. I think it is also our (student) responsibility to carry out as many case studies as possible throughout the course to ensure our own personal effectiveness - so many student on my course aren't bothering -scary!

 

[tigerlil]

I was 29 when I qualified, and I can tell you that at my college, the customer service and business training was non-existent. I learned all I know of business and customer services through my years of working in completely different industries (thankfully, customer service is fully transferable). But when I was 16, I didn't know by a*se from my elbow yet alone my way around a salon - I would've been useless with no customer service training!

I agree with you there. I went to college to do a btec national diploma. It was useless. 2 years of training wasted and no confidence to do any treatments. Did not get any jobs I applied for because the way we were taught was not to a good standard.

Decided now 8 years later to have another go at it as I love beauty and (slowly) starting a mobile business. Having to pay a fortune retraining in even the most basic treatments eg waxing as in college we were taught strip waxing and shown hot wax once, yet I left qualified in both!!!



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