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debbienailz

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hi everyone
i have had a client for sometime now (10 months)...she is a hairdresser ...and wears creative retention l&p...she has never experienced any problems with them at all
.she has just returned from two weeks holiday in spain ....i did an infill for her three days before she left and for the first time ever (and i don't only mean with her but with all my clients ) she has a bacterial infection on the middle finger of her right hand .there appeared to be no lifting whatsoever and i could not see any surface cracks .i prepped as i always do using scrubfresh ...nailfresh and then scrubfresh again.she had staining in the middle of zone 2 it was quite a dark green but not reaching to the sides of her nail just in the middle (i hope i have explained myself ok )i soaked the enhancement off and then soaked in surgical spirit for a short time ...buffed lightly ...prepped extremly carefully and reapplied her pink and whites ...i used flawless pink to disguise the stain i threw away all files and sanitized my table and tools afterwards...it is 1.30 am now and i am still worried about it ...i have two questions
1)why did it happen...did i do something wrong ...i feel really guilty !!!
2)have i done the right thing by applying flawless pink ?
i wonder now whether i should have stuck with pink so that i could have kept a closer eye on it

in fairness my client wasn't a bit put off by it she just said it didn't hurt so she just applied an enamel to hide it

this is the first time i have ever seen a greenie
and i am probably over reacting ...but i just don't know why it happened
take care
debbie
 

PLAYDAY1

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There are a few steps too take that ensure no repeat.

As you have done throw away all used files straight away. Completely sterilize all your equipment....bin any towels as well....and do this after dealing with any client with an infection.

You need a clinical sterilants and up your products to clinical ones.

Bacteria/fungi are anerobic generally unfortunately the worst thing you can do is give them another nice moist L&P nail to hid under.

The only product that works is called Dr G's. or alessandro sell clear nail, its one in the same and will work between the nail plates and an L&P nail. They only keep it to sell to L&P tech.s

Don't worry as the client won't know what you know! I know a now well known publicised nail tech. who did the honours for one of the spice girls and you all look up to her! (honours meaning...green nail) I remember her ringing me for advice.

However the correct course of action to advoid legal liability is to do a removal and advise client to seek medical advice. Insurance people like this approach. If client insists on nails get a disclaimer signed.

My advice to salons who get a client coming in with a "green" nail is give verbal advice re. clear nail and send away.

So the actual advice here is get the Dr G's/clear nail , offer the client a removal and seek medical advice and if she wants you to sort it out get a disclaimer signer and use Dr G's. as per the instructions.

For a while use Dr G's/clear nail on all clients until you are comfortable its all a nasty memory.


As to the how, the necessary "bugs" hang around all the time but sometimes a number of things collude to cause this to happen spontaneously. I presume you sterilize and sanitize your files and equip between clients, I don't know your products so I don't know their medical/clinical ratings. We only use actual Hospital products. Some manufacturers don't produce their products in "clean" factories. You can ask your supplier if they produce to cosmetic regulations which assure you of microbially "clean" products. ISO9001-2 is a good badge or HACCP. All products have a gram count but cosmetics have to have a specially low count. Non-cosmetics....well... least said I think.
 

The Geek

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sheesh.

1- I would strongly recommend reading [thread=2641]this[/thread](both of you should read it).
2- Without any lifting, there would have been no greenie
3- Though the types of bacteria that cause greenies are anaerobic (oxygen inhibits growth... I dont know of a fungi that is) Dont bother with Dr G's or other bits and bobs as air stops the growth.
4- Whilst you should practice proper sanitation, no one that I know of sterlizes in the salon as its impractical and would have made no difference in this case. Your 'medical rating' would have nothing to do with this is well.
5- I would only refer to a derm if the greenie was occuring under the natural nail plate (would be accompanied with onycholysis), was black, or continued growth after removal of enhancments.

Read the article I provided the link for uptop and that should answer all of your questions in a realistic manner.

Good luck
 

geeg

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It is always disconcerning when you see your first GREENIE and truth to tell, Britain is a country where the weather conditions are perfect for nails of all types .... no extremes of either hot or cold, so we don't see so many of them if your sanitary procedures are thorough.

Here in Spain where we have a warm moist climate, technicians do see more of this type of pseudomonas bacterial infection under every type of nail product, and it is very easy to eradicate indeed, and nothing to get stressed about in a normal one off situation. Certainly nothing to get stressed about as to how to treat it because it is the simplest thing in the world to treat. Just remove the enhancement, clean with a good sanitiser like ScrubFResh or similar and reapply product to the nail when thoroughly DRY. So you did the right thing.

Any stain left behind is just that, a stain, it will not get worse because the bacteria are no longer present. The stain is the result of the infection not THE infection. In nails like this that I have treated, the infection has never reoccured. Why?? Because it was a one off occasion for the client who had probably banged the nail against something and cracked it or lifted it and because the nail didn¡t come off, just left it till her next appointment by which time the bacteria had had time to grow and multiply. Middle finger is the longest and the one most easily bashed.

Pseudomonas is the simplest type of bacteria and is present commonly. There is no need to bin towels or sterilize at all. Always wash towels at 60degrees anyway and normal sanitary procedures will be sufficient.

A true fungal infection is something quite different and not commonly seen on fingernails because the environment is not suitable for the organism to grow there. Much more common on toes where being in warm moist dark shoes the environment is perfect..
 

PLAYDAY1

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Well, everyone not medically qualified is entitled to an opinion as would be a qualified micro-biologist who was also a medical Doctor.

Me I always work to ensure I adhere to the rules governing legal liability.

We as an industry carry no appropriate training or qualifications to deal with any medical issues.

Ignore me ask your insurers what they suggest you do or the Local Environmental Health Department.

By the way if your salon and equipment is not "readily cleasibile" then you are breaking a number of regs.

Information from persons within the industry will always be conflicting but the legalities are pretty clear.
 

Lellipop

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Just intrested to know, What is Dr G and clear nail, what do these products do ?
Just have not come across them before.
Thanks
 

Peppercorn Nails

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One of my clients is disabled and one day she fell backwards onto her bed, put out her hand and cracked a number of nails on that hand (all remained intact other than a crack across the middle). She comes to me every 3 weeks for an appointment, so it was about another week before I saw her, plus she was wearing nail varnish.

First thing I did was soak all the afflicted enhancements off, very lightly buffed over the stained area with my 'Koala' buffer, gave it a good scrub up with 'ScrubFresh' and then reapplied my product. My client was horrified with the green staining on her nails, but I explained to her why the bacteria had occured and that by using a Pathogenic inhibitor it would not get worse and that it would grow out..........it would just take time.

Well sure enough the green staining has now departed.........so rest assured you did the right thing by giving it a good clean and then reapplying............just keep an eye on it until it's grown out;)

Adele
 

PLAYDAY1

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Antimicrobial active agent KILLS bacteria, fungus, mold, yeast and viruses


...and its medically tested by Doctors not chemists.

Patented delivery system penetrates to the site of infection No harsh acids, alcohols or odor

No need to remove polish or acrylics
 

The Geek

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Sorry colin, but even the FDA says there is no OTC product that can effectivly kill a yeast infection of the natural nail. Thats why medication is the only solution for such a rare occurance.

I know you have a big brick on your shoulder about chemists, but you can have doctors test away and that still doesnt mean anything. They tested it. Yahoo? What were the results? All we know is some Dr. tested it. You know, I have a whole poopload of Doctors that call bacterial infections Water Mould even though there is no such thing.

I would also be interested in the legal liability issue. Can you please give me more facts?
 

geeg

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You know, we are talking about an (infestation is a better word I think) 'infection' by a very simple microbe, that is outside the body and on the surface of non living tissue.

This is not an infection of the body that has entered the bloodstream or that can cause any havoc with the immune system ..... so lets get real about the situation.

Remove the damaged enhancemnet. Bacteria instantly dies.

Prepare the plate.

Clean the area with a good sanitiser. (I recommend ScrubFresh because it does contain pathogen fighting agents which are left behind in the nailplate to help guard against the occurace of 'green' nails in the future)

Dry thoroughly.

Re-apply your chosen product.

As a matter of interest Colon: These steps are the accepted steps that are taught in ALL government recognised nail courses such as NVQ and VCTC which should make them acceptable to everyone. They are not just my personal opinion.
 

PLAYDAY1

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Well all I can say is Dr. G's is a long term trading company from the USA and have been making these statements publicly and on all their packaging for ten years.

Check it out before you rubbish it. They seem to think that their active ingredient is FDA approved.

By the way, please explain to humble old me how any drug taken internally effects the outer surface of a dead nail plate. The English Doctors I know have to prescribe external topical applications.

I did just write an interesting treatise on the legal liability aspects of this issue but you changed the ip block mid post so you won't be getting that typed out again. Why ask the question if you don't want the answer.... Too busy sparring!

As for a chip on my shoulder about chemists, well I've had a hard life and worked around some of the most learned people on the planet in Microbiology, Chemistry, Medicine, Organic Chemistry, made a bit of case law so my cynicism is extremely healthy. One of my "friends" in this area had a few problems with a small organisation called the UK Government over BSE and Samonella and Listeria. It took quite a while for a small number of people to proove the truth....which I think we all know now. Well at the time the majority had a different opinion.

ah what the hell.....
 

PLAYDAY1

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Googie, Hi! my namesake Colon Powell, how did u know!:) My other nickname is Fat Controller what yours?:p


Generally your right it is external and we agree on this.


NVQ and VTCT are recognised by the QCA on behalf of UK gov. Not recognised by the BMA last time I checked but if you know different, fine.

You want to advise people your way, cool. But you are telling them that they can have the pants sued off them so I hope your insurance is good.
 

geeg

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PLAYDAY1 said:
By the way, please explain to humble old me how any drug taken internally effects the outer surface of a dead nail plate. The English Doctors I know have to prescribe external topical applications.
That is a good question. It can't. And no one said that it did.

The external medications prescribed by doctors are for FUNGAL infections (not for the presence of simple pseudomonas bacteria), and they very rarely work well because they often can't get to the 'seat' of the infection (under the natural nail plate) to clear it up.

I am now talking about infections that occur beneath the natural nail plate. These type of infections can be cured by taking the appropriate internal medications, but doctors are very loath to prescribe them for one very simple reason ... MONEY. These medications are very expensive and are quite long term to take ... so the general public get fobbed off with topical creams etc that as I mentioned do not always cure the complaint. Same old story in our wonderful National Health System.
 

geeg

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PLAYDAY1 said:
Googie, Hi! my namesake Colon Powell, how did u know!:) My other nickname is Fat Controller what yours?:p


Generally your right it is external and we agree on this.


NVQ and VTCT are recognised by the QCA on behalf of UK gov. Not recognised by the BMA last time I checked but if you know different, fine.

You want to advise people your way, cool. But you are telling them that they can have the pants sued off them so I hope your insurance is good.
Well my name is Gigi as you know very well but then you choose to show me disrespect ... fine, everyone has noted it. My calling you Colon was a typing error but hey ... if the cap fits you know? Pretty funny really.

As for my nick name ... I don't know, but I'm sure you have come up with a few good ones.

No one is going to get sued by someone with a simple bacteria infection!!
It is not disabling nor is it permanent, and is usually caused by the client and lack of regular maintenance not the nail technician.

No one needs to be scared of this eventuality unless they were at fault. We recommend maintenance every 2 weeks. If clients do not comply then they wear enhancements at their own risk. Client records ask the client to sign this areement and aftercare leaflets reinforce it. If the nail tech is doing all she is obliged to in this area, then there should be no chance of being sued.
 

sequinto

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hi evry1
i came across my 1st greenie last week and still being a new tech was horrified
but i stayed calm and carried on removing enhancement once all were off i used scrubfresh on all fingernails. Whilst making client a cuppa i looked up in my notes that u get from creative and this said that it will grow out.
Before i do a set of nails i always prep properly only using creative products, but i do wonder if i done smething wrong
 

geeg

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Sounds like you saw one green nail and removed the whole set? Is this right?

If you read the above carefully, I think you will be able to tell if you did anything wrong. If you followed the Creative prep procedure and only saw green on one nail, then I think we can assume it wasn't you.

But this problem does highlight how careful and meticulous you must be when rebalancing and make sure there is no possibility that any nail is allowing moisture to leak underneath the enhancement.

Altho your proper prep does do everything to make greenies avoidable in the salon, you can't factor in what the client is or isn't going to do in between maintenance appointments.

Some clients file their own nails and cause the product to split away from the natural nail causing 'curling' and lifting.
Some clients never nourish their nails with the recommended cuticle oil.
Some clients wear their nails too long and are continually bashing them and causing little cracks that they may not be able to see but that cause 'leaking'

Don't ever forget the importance of teaching your clients these things so that they are aware of what it can lead to. Teach them how to file properly, and to use their cuticle oil daily, to wear their nails the right length for them and to come into the salon promptly if they bend a nail badly.
 

sequinto

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I was lucky that the client had already asked for her nails to be removed. but if she had wanted another set straight on could i have done this or would we have to wait for the greenie to grow out?
 

Mrs Geek

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sequinto said:
I was lucky that the client had already asked for her nails to be removed. but if she had wanted another set straight on could i have done this or would we have to wait for the greenie to grow out?
Below is your answer - Geeg post this on Page 1 of this thread:D

You know, we are talking about an (infestation is a better word I think) 'infection' by a very simple microbe, that is outside the body and on the surface of non living tissue.

This is not an infection of the body that has entered the bloodstream or that can cause any havoc with the immune system ..... so lets get real about the situation.

Remove the damaged enhancemnet. Bacteria instantly dies.

Prepare the plate.

Clean the area with a good sanitiser. (I recommend ScrubFresh because it does contain pathogen fighting agents which are left behind in the nailplate to help guard against the occurace of 'green' nails in the future)

Dry thoroughly.

Re-apply your chosen product.
 

Welsh Geek

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Hi Jackie

Just to affirm what has already been said..... I have had a bad case of 'Green' nails when a client of mine went abroad for four weeks and damaged some...
I did just a Geeg has said and removed the tips, buffed gently, scrubfreshed, etc. I then re applied the enhancements....
I had no problems from this, the stain was not as dark as I first thought it would be, and I requested that the clienyt not cover her nails with polish until I was happy that the problem was totally gone..
There has been no re occurence and my client has no problems now...
I think the advice already been given by Geeg is very good , and the last thing you want to be doing is over reacting or making your client panic about this. I have seen others who have come to me from other salons who have had the same problem, and have fixed it min much the same way.

Sue
sequinto said:
hi evry1
i came across my 1st greenie last week and still being a new tech was horrified
but i stayed calm and carried on removing enhancement once all were off i used scrubfresh on all fingernails. Whilst making client a cuppa i looked up in my notes that u get from creative and this said that it will grow out.
Before i do a set of nails i always prep properly only using creative products, but i do wonder if i done smething wrong
 

PLAYDAY1

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"bacteria instantly dies"......

Must be me again. In my world based in England it must be so different than your planet, you see on my world bacteria form spores when conditions become inhospitable but then again what do I know. I mean you should trust me, after all I am a nail technician. I should have done an NVQ or whatever because then I would know these things. You see when you actually speak to somebody who has suffered with infected nails who can't get shut of it despite the medication you realise why you might get sued. But then with this misinformation I can see the prosecuting counsel cheering when you take the stand.

By the way MRSA is a very "simple" micobe, only the Medical community don't understand what you know otherwise they would have just got rid of it overnight.

Me, humble old me, I know I am not qualified to give advice on medical conditions. By the way wots a pathogen fighting agent my curiosity is perked?


Mrs Geek said:
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]“[/font]
You know, we are talking about an (infestation is a better word I think) 'infection' by a very simple microbe, that is outside the body and on the surface of non living tissue.

This is not an infection of the body that has entered the bloodstream or that can cause any havoc with the immune system ..... so lets get real about the situation.

Remove the damaged enhancemnet. Bacteria instantly dies.

Prepare the plate.

Clean the area with a good sanitiser. (I recommend ScrubFresh because it does contain pathogen fighting agents which are left behind in the nailplate to help guard against the occurace of 'green' nails in the future)

Dry thoroughly.

Re-apply your chosen product. Below is your answer - Geeg post this on Page 1 of this thread:D
 
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