Can Neutragena Hand Cream cause lifting of Bio Sculpture Gel?

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Angie's Nails

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Hi I have been searching the threads to see if Neutragena or other product containing petroleum can cause lifting of Bio Sculpture Gel but no luck.

I have a Client who's nails lifted just after a week but have been fine before. I asked if she had been using anything new. She said she has some new hand cream, Neutragena, and has also used lip balm and some cream for her daughters sore bottom (I can't remember the name of the Bum cream).

I said these all could have been a factor in the lifting but would find out on this site whether other techs have experienced the same.

Any feedback will be most appreciated.
 
It wouldn't. Hand creams, oils, etc... cannot cause lifting (though they can facilitate the process if lifting has already started) :)

HTHs!
 
It wouldn't. Hand creams, oils, etc... cannot cause lifting (though they can facilitate the process if lifting has already started) :)

HTHs!

would this be the same even with a soak off gel like Bio Sculpture...?
 
Incidently, Bio Sculpture will insist that you should always use thier products to avoid lifting but I have found this not always to be necessary. Saying that though there must be some reason why they say this. And Bio Sculpture gel is very pourous as I have found. My client is a chemist and is convinced as i am there was something effecting the gel that particular time.
 
Hey there,

Could someone plese provide me with a few good tips on the Bio Sculpture product? We recently just got it into our salon, Many Thanks, Danielle
 
Hey there,

Could someone plese provide me with a few good tips on the Bio Sculpture product? We recently just got it into our salon, Many Thanks, Danielle


If you do a search on Bio sculpture you'll find loads of threads on it. There's a Bio group that you can join - go into My Profile - user Control Panel - Social Groups (in the list on the left of the screen) click on it and scroll down to the group name and click on that. You can join by clicking 'join group' on the top or bottom header bar. HTH's:hug:
 
I'm not a Bio Sculpture tech, but I can't imagine that it is porous enough for a lotion to penetrate the bond between plate and product after polymerisation. If that was the case, virtually anything would cause it to lift. It is a common myth that lotions, oils, etc... cause lifting. It is usually something left behind on the nail plate before product was applied. Not after.

Here are some common questions that can help diagnose the problem:

Are all nails lifting the same amount?
Did they all start to lift in Zone 3 and gradually work to Zone 2 or did the amount of lift happen right away?
Explain your preparation proceedure you used.

Hths :)
 
Hi thanks for your reply my procedure is as follows:

- Ask client to rub hands with Bio Sculpture Antiseptic Moisturising Hand Gel
- Remove old gel with Bio Sculpture Gel Remover
- Lightly buff the nail plate to remove any debris and any shine on new growth
- Apply Bio Sculpture cuticle remover and push back cuticles
- Get client to wash hands (with Bio Sculpture hand wash although this wasn't used that time, used Bio Antiseptic Moisturising Hand Gel with water as I didn't have anything else with me at the time( may be this is why?))
- Scrub nails with Bio Duel Cleanser to remove oil and dust etc. (New pad per nail)
- Apply Sealer Gel 4 fingers avoiding getting too close to the skin and to avoid a "step".
- Cure 2 mins
- Do Thumbs
- Apply white on tip, one or two fingers at a time. Flash cure then full cure 2 mins all fingers. Thumbs done seperately
- Apply second layer of white if necessary, cure
- Apply Sealer Gel one or two nails at a time making sure the back is filled behind the white and the nail looks good from the side (no ridge and good arch). Cap edge
- Remove sticky layer with Bio Duel Cleanser
- Lightly file any rough areas at the free edge where gel has left a sharp edge if necessary
- Wipe with Duel Cleanser to remove any dust
- Apply clear varnish to protect and shine

I wonder if I'm not capping enough or the filing at the end although very very light is doing it? I don't seem to have any problems with my other clients and hers are normaly fine.

Thanks for looking into this for me.
 
Do you just push back the skin or do you use an appropriate tool and actually remove the non-living tissue from the nail folds and plate as well? Just a thought x
 
Hi thanks for your reply my procedure is as follows:

- Ask client to rub hands with Bio Sculpture Antiseptic Moisturising Hand Gel
- Remove old gel with Bio Sculpture Gel Remover
- Lightly buff the nail plate to remove any debris and any shine on new growth
- Apply Bio Sculpture cuticle remover and push back cuticles
- Get client to wash hands (with Bio Sculpture hand wash although this wasn't used that time, used Bio Antiseptic Moisturising Hand Gel with water as I didn't have anything else with me at the time( may be this is why?))
- Scrub nails with Bio Duel Cleanser to remove oil and dust etc. (New pad per nail)
- Apply Sealer Gel 4 fingers avoiding getting too close to the skin and to avoid a "step".
- Cure 2 mins
- Do Thumbs
- Apply white on tip, one or two fingers at a time. Flash cure then full cure 2 mins all fingers. Thumbs done seperately
- Apply second layer of white if necessary, cure
- Apply Sealer Gel one or two nails at a time making sure the back is filled behind the white and the nail looks good from the side (no ridge and good arch). Cap edge
- Remove sticky layer with Bio Duel Cleanser
- Lightly file any rough areas at the free edge where gel has left a sharp edge if necessary
- Wipe with Duel Cleanser to remove any dust
- Apply clear varnish to protect and shine

I wonder if I'm not capping enough or the filing at the end although very very light is doing it? I don't seem to have any problems with my other clients and hers are normaly fine.

Thanks for looking into this for me.


Is this the way you do it all the time??
I'm just curious because when i trained we did it with clear and s-gel - using s cured for 4 mins or BS top coat for the shine. the s-gel gave it strength & shape. I'm intrigued to know how you get this from just using sealer.:)
 
Do you just push back the skin or do you use an appropriate tool and actually remove the non-living tissue from the nail folds and plate as well? Just a thought x

Hi yes I am Jessica trained too and use thier electric manicure tool to push the cuticles back. I always make sure there is nothing left on the nail beds.
 
Is this the way you do it all the time??
I'm just curious because when i trained we did it with clear and s-gel - using s cured for 4 mins or BS top coat for the shine. the s-gel gave it strength & shape. I'm intrigued to know how you get this from just using sealer.:)

Hi I was trained 5 years ago before they had the s gel and used clear gel then. I use Sealer gel now as I have learned on this forum that it cures better on the nail plate and also has uv filters to safe guard against discolouration. I can't get on with s gel. I initialy trained with a three tier gel (base, builder & sealer) with Essential Nails and hated it. I find the self levelling of the sealer and clear gel much easier to work with and only use the s gel when i know i need to buff afterwards such as after sculpting. I find quite a number of Techs do things differently. I think it's down to experience and product knowledge.
 
Hi yes I am Jessica trained too and use thier electric manicure tool to push the cuticles back. I always make sure there is nothing left on the nail beds.

Well I hope you leave a nail plate on the nail bed! :lol:

Just to clarify my point...I wondered if as well as pushing the skin back...do you also remove all traces of non-living tissue from the nail plate.

For example....I use a pro-pusher....one end is used for gently pushing back the skin (eponychium), and the other end is used for gently but thoroughly scraping down the sidewalls and around the base of the nail...removing all traces of cuticle and debris from the actual nail plate (this is different from pushing back the skin).
I hope you understand what I mean...its just that if this part of the PREP isnt done thoroughly then you will get lifting problems x
 
Hi I was trained 5 years ago before they had the s gel and used clear gel then. I use Sealer gel now as I have learned on this forum that it cures better on the nail plate and also has uv filters to safe guard against discolouration. I can't get on with s gel. I initialy trained with a three tier gel (base, builder & sealer) with Essential Nails and hated it. I find the self levelling of the sealer and clear gel much easier to work with and only use the s gel when i know i need to buff afterwards such as after sculpting. I find quite a number of Techs do things differently. I think it's down to experience and product knowledge.


Well there you go!!!:lol: I did my course 2 years ago and they only mentioned sealer to put over colour. I think i'll give your way ago and see how they compare. Thanks!! xx
 
Well I hope you leave a nail plate on the nail bed! :lol:

Just to clarify my point...I wondered if as well as pushing the skin back...do you also remove all traces of non-living tissue from the nail plate.

For example....I use a pro-pusher....one end is used for gently pushing back the skin (eponychium), and the other end is used for gently but thoroughly scraping down the sidewalls and around the base of the nail...removing all traces of cuticle and debris from the actual nail plate (this is different from pushing back the skin).
I hope you understand what I mean...its just that if this part of the PREP isnt done thoroughly then you will get lifting problems x
:lol: oops wrong term of phrase there! Sorry. The Jessica manicure machine works in the same way. I think the lifting was more from the free edge. Thanks for the reply tho
 
I'm not a Bio Sculpture tech, but I can't imagine that it is porous enough for a lotion to penetrate the bond between plate and product after polymerisation. If that was the case, virtually anything would cause it to lift. It is a common myth that lotions, oils, etc... cause lifting. It is usually something left behind on the nail plate before product was applied. Not after.

Here are some common questions that can help diagnose the problem:

Are all nails lifting the same amount?
Did they all start to lift in Zone 3 and gradually work to Zone 2 or did the amount of lift happen right away?
Explain your preparation proceedure you used.

Hths :)

I personally disagree, and feel that this is not a myth.

I don't use Biolsculpture, but use EZ Flow Gel-It.
Anytime any of my clients who are not ordinarily 'lifters' have changed hand creams/lotions to one that contains large amounts of petroleum/petrolatum/mineral oil (indicated at the beginning of the ingredient list and therefor the largest quantity of ingredient in the product) which are often the 'cheaper/lower quality' hand creams, lifting soon followed.
I will often see this at the beginning of the winter season when people start using their hand creams again OR more often. I find the culprits (meaning the cream) and urge the client to change creams or simply use their cuticle oil more often. This almost always fixes the problem (unless it's due to another reason aka nails too long or medication the client is taking such as effexor anti-depressant).

This may fall into the 'tmi' category, but here goes...
One particular client of mine.. who NEVER lifts, one weekend, used liberal amounts of baby oil as they'd run out of something else.....
She came to me with tonnes of lift.
She never used it again and has never had lift again.

I can cite several instances where the cream/lotion/oil has been the culprit and once replaced with something of better quality that doesn't contain these ingredients, the lifting ceased.
Too many instances where it can't be ruled out as coincidence.

My clients aren't prone to lifting. It's not something that I see often.

I don't know the why's or how's. Although I read somewhere that it was due to the fact that those ingredients can not penetrate the skin, nor be absorbed as the molecules are too large. So, they just 'sit' there, lubricating the surface.
 
Hello everyone! :)

I have to agree to a point with Victoria on this one.....I have had clients who have used certain handcreams (not to name names, but those that contain "anti-ageing" ingredients, a HEM) and they had lift. When I got to the source of the problem, I had them switch their handcream as an experiment (should have been a scientist I suppose), and wha-laaa.....no lift. I've also had issues with people and baby oil.

Some of the newer handcreams are really rather harsh, depending on their chemical composition....and I think the baby oil issue is the compounded by people who also pick at their cuticles (just an observation).

People who I know PICK or GREASE up their hands, I steer them towards solar oil or solar balm.

Just my .02 FWIW
Peace
Nancy
 
PS:
I have 4 clients that work in "machine shops", machineing (cutting, grinding, shaping metal) all day long.

On the weeks where they are at a particular machine that prevents them from wearing gloves, and they get silicone (a type of lubricant that they use) all over their hands, they get lift.
On weeks where they are on the other machines, with gloves on, and no exposure to silicone = no lift.

One definition of silicone when googled was:

silicones - Mineral based, these are a family of ingredients that are emollient and leave a protective film on the surface of the skin that helps to protect ...
[URL="http://www.bgalgae.com/page.php"]www.bgalgae.com/page.php[/URL]

Also, when googling what it was made of, came up with this

Silicone grease - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Silicone grease

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Jump to: navigation, search
Silicone grease is a waterproof grease made by combining a silicone oil with a thickener. Most commonly, the silicone oil is polydimethylsiloxane and the thickener is amorphous fumed silica. Using this formulation, silicone grease is a translucent white viscous paste, with exact properties dependent on the type and proportion of the components.
Contents

[hide]
[edit] Use in industry

Silicone grease is commonly used for lubricating and preserving rubber parts, such as O-rings. Additionally, silicone grease does not swell or soften the rubber, which can be a problem with hydrocarbon based greases. It functions well as a corrosion-inhibitor and lubricant for purposes that require a thicker lubricant, such as the operating mechanism of the M1 Garand rifle.
The most common use of it is an elastic heat transfer coupling material between semiconductor circuit elements and attached cooling metal parts. This way thermal resistance of touching surfaces is typically lowered by 50 percent.[citation needed] The high thermal stability is the key property that allows these greases to operate on hot, cold and wet surfaces of peltier elements.
Silicone grease is also used widely by the plumbing industry in faucets and seals, as well as dental equipment. Electrical utilities use silicone grease to lube separable elbows on lines which must endure high temperatures. Silicone greases generally have a temperature range of -40 to 400 °C.

[edit] Use in the chemical laboratory

Silicone grease is widely used as a temporary sealant and a lubricant for interconnecting ground glass joints, as is typically used in the chemical laboratory. Although silicones are normally assumed to be chemically inert, several historically significant compounds have been prepared by unintended reactions. For example, the first salt of the crown ether (OSi(CH3)2)n (n = 6, 7) were prepared by reactions resulting from contacting organolithium and organopotassium compounds with silicone greases.[1]

[edit] Consumer Uses

Silicone-based lubricants are often used by consumers in applications where other common consumer lubricants, such as Vaseline, would damage certain products, such as latex rubber condoms and gaskets on drysuits.

[edit] References

  1. ^ Jamie S. Ritch and Tristram Chivers (2007). "Silicon Analogues of Crown Ethers and Cryptands: A New Chapter in Host–Guest Chemistry?". Angewandte Chemie International Edition 46: 4610 – 4613. doi:10.1002/anie.200701822.

Please note where it's indicated that "vaseline would damage certain products".
We know that vaseline/mineral oils etc are damaging to condoms, etc.

Please refer to this page which explains what Latex is made of....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latex_(polymer)
Latex is a name collectively given to a group of similar preparations consisting of stable dispersions of polymer microparticles in a liquid matrix (usually water). Latexes may be natural or synthetic. Synthetic latexes are usually produced by emulsion polymerization using a variety of initiators, surfactants and monomers; the latter commonly include:
etc....


I did several searchs asking questions like "how does mineral oil damage latex, how does petroleum damage polymers... etc etc"
And came up with several instances (mostly industrial) where it's indicated that petroleums/mineral oils DO damage polymers.
I couldn't find the "whys" or "hows", however.
 
Back along I became a bit interested in bonds.....

http://www.salongeek.com/nail-geek/57570-bond-james-how-does-break.html

http://www.salongeek.com/nail-geek/58498-q-bonds.html

In my experience, I really don't think that creams, shampoos, cleaning product, for the time enhancements are exposed to them will break the bond. If prep and application is pure then the bond should remain for the life of the enhancement.

I think there are a few things that will affect the bond:

Incorrect ratio, a true bond hasn't been formed.
Too thick an enhancement, causing pocket lifting.
Incomplete prep.
Poor foundation for nail enhancements such as riged nails (I have found enhancement products (even covalent bonding ones) don't like very riged nails), thinned nails.
I'm sure there will be more but these are what we come across in the salon in the main.

One thing I have found is that a covalent bond has a better/stronger bond on an nno than a hydrogen bond. My experience has shown me that a hydrogen bond will curl away from a free edge, especially on a nail with a bit of c curve, very readily (flat nails aren't so susceptible) than a covalent bond, which will stay in place and not suffer curling.

Apologies if I have gone off tangent but I hope this makes sense and maybe helps a bit!
 
Victoria, the people that work in the machine shop, I wouldn't be surprised if vibration was the culprit, not the grease.
 

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