Catalysts and Initiators

[Lois Kellyy]

I am currently studying Level 3 Nails, and have been set an assigment. Polymerisation is the subject, and I have to explain the process. I have done most of the asignemt but I am stuck on how to explain what initiators and catalysts are.

Can some one help me asap please
Thanks

 

[Iris]

I used to teach level 3 nails and the book I used with my students was Marion Newman's TheComplete Nail Technician and all the info you could ever need is in that book

 

[geeg]

A catalyst is something that starts a process going and increases the rate of a chemical reaction , in this case, the process of polymerization. A catalyst does not enter the chemical reaction itself; Consider it an outside force.

A chemical initiator is the substance that the catalyst affects which initiates a chain reaction, in this case, the polymerization of nail products.

So .. in the case of Liquid & powder systems ... what is the catalyst? The warmth of the finger. What is the chemical initiator it energizes and which starts the chain reaction? (you tell us and I'll tell you f you are right)

In the case of gels ... What is the catalyst? The UV light. What is the initiator? (you tell us and I'll tell you if you are right.)

In the case of Wrap systems. What is the catalyst? What is the initiator? You tell us and I'll tell you if you are right.

Hope this helps you to find the answers you need.

 

[geeg]

The OP has not come back to this and it occurred to me that some might be interested in the answers to this science based topic ... If you are interested in how your products work.

Let me know if you are, or if you want to take a stab at answering the questions yourself, or if you have any questions of your own about the topic, and we can discuss. It's an interesting topic.

 

[Wellyb]

Ok I'll take a stab as interested if i still understand it correctly. Think I'm safe with gel but not 100% on l&p and have no idea with wraps

L&p if catalyst is warmth of the finger is the initiator the polymer ie the powder when mixed with the monomer ie liquid????
Gel if the catalyst is the uv light is the initiator the photo initiator that activates the oligomers

 

[DaniG]

So .. in the case of Liquid & powder systems ... what is the catalyst? The warmth of the finger. What is the chemical initiator it energizes and which starts the chain reaction? (you tell us and I'll tell you f you are right)

I understood it that the catalyst in the acrylic system is usually benzoyl peroxide (which is heat sensitive) in the polymer and the initiator is an amine (Dimethyltolylamine in my NSI) in the monomer?

(Yes, I did cheat and look up the actual names on my ingredients list :lol

 

[geeg]

I understood it that the catalyst in the acrylic system is usually benzoyl peroxide (which is heat sensitive) in the polymer and the initiator is an amine (Dimethyltolylamine in my NSI) in the monomer?

(Yes, I did cheat and look up the actual names on my ingredients list :lol

In the case of Liquid & powder
The catalyst is warmth ... In this case from body temperature, the outside source that speeds up the start of the reaction.

The initiator is the benzoyl peroxide in the powder which is activated by the warmth. Amine is also an initiator in the liquid.

Good job, nearly perfect.

 

[geeg]

Ok I'll take a stab as interested if i still understand it correctly. Think I'm safe with gel but not 100% on l&p and have no idea with wraps

L&p if catalyst is warmth of the finger is the initiator the polymer ie the powder when mixed with the monomer ie liquid????
Gel if the catalyst is the uv light is the initiator the photo initiator that activates the oligomers

In the case of gel you are correct.

The catalyst is the UV light, the outside source.

The initiators are the photo sensitive polymers that are excited and energised by the UV light and start the chain reaction of polymerisation.

 

[geeg]

What about the wrap category then. Any brave souls want to take it on?

 

[DaniG]

I don't mean to come across as doubting you, I just want to get it straight in my head, but I could have sworn that Marian Newman lists benzoyl peroxide as the catalyst and even compares it to hair dye with hydrogen peroxide (which is why I remember it). I don't have my book at work though so can't check what she wrote.

:hug:

 

[geeg]

I don't mean to come across as doubting you, I just want to get it straight in my head, but I could have sworn that Marian Newman lists benzoyl peroxide as the catalyst and even compares it to hair dye with hydrogen peroxide (which is why I remember it). I don't have my book at work though so can't check what she wrote.

:hug:

She may have done. :green: If a catalyst is an out side force which starts a chemical reaction then that would not fit with benzoyl peroxide being a catalyst but an initiator.

 

[DaniG]

A catalyst can also be a substance though. It isn't changed by the reaction but its needed to initiate or control it.

 

[geeg]

A catalyst can also be a substance though. It isn't changed by the reaction but its needed to initiate or control it.

That is true. This is where lines can become blurred with semantics. There is initiate as a verb, and initiator as a noun. You have used it as a verb above not a noun. Can we keep it simple?

 

[angelardn]

Gigi you are like a walking encyclopaedia

 

[geeg]

Gigi you are like a walking encyclopaedia

I don't know it all. But I do know my business. And the better we all know our products and how they work, the easier it is to solve problems logically on our own if they occur.

It may be easy to just go to SalonGeek.com and ask ... But when you are back to back with clients you need to figure things out on your own.

The more you know the more confident you will be, the more respect you will get from clients, the better your work will be and the more clients you will have.

 

[DaniG]

That is true. This is where lines can become blurred with semantics. There is initiate as a verb, and initiator as a noun. You have used it as a verb above not a noun. Can we keep it simple?

I should have probably used "start" there instead of initiate to avoid confusion, sorry.

What I was trying to say was that it's possible that the benzoyl peroxide is a catalyst rather than a second initiator if it doesn't actually change during the process.

For example in school we used metal filings as a catalyst to break down hydrogen peroxide. The filings sped up the reaction but their structure didn't change, thus making them a catalyst.

I don't know if that is actually the case here, but I can't imagine Marian Newman would have listed it as a catalyst (if I'm not imagining things!) incorrectly and it would have gone unnoticed for so long if it actually wasn't a catalyst. Anyway, something for me to look into and learn from later! :green:

 

[geeg]

I should have probably used "start" there instead of initiate to avoid confusion, sorry.

What I was trying to say was that it's possible that the benzoyl peroxide is a catalyst rather than a second initiator if it doesn't actually change during the process.

For example in school we used metal filings as a catalyst to break down hydrogen peroxide. The filings sped up the reaction but their structure didn't change, thus making them a catalyst.

I don't know if that is actually the case here, but I can't imagine Marian Newman would have listed it as a catalyst (if I'm not imagining things!) incorrectly and it would have gone unnoticed for so long if it actually wasn't a catalyst. Anyway, something for me to look into and learn from later! :green:

Benzoyl peroxide as an initiator does change in the process of polymerization ... for a start it becomes inert. x

 

[mum]

So, to wade in and try to explain!

The initiator is an ingredient that will start the polymerisation process but it will not start this until it is 'triggered'. This is where the catalyst comes in as this is the 'trigger'.

The catalyst is not altered in the chemical process, it is just the trigger. The initiator is, however, part of the process and is altered in some way and becomes part of the polymerised plastic. benzoyl peroxide, for example, is completely used up very early on in the process.

All of the 'systems' need both a catalyst and initiator to successfully polymerise in a controlled way. The relationship between these two is very carefully balanced formula in sophisticated products. A very good reason for not mixing brands!

As Geeg has said, there is a certain amount of confusion when using 'initiator' as a noun and a chemical term and 'initiate' as a verb in normal vocabulary (e.g. initiate conversation, i.e start conversation)

With reference to my book the text explains this relatively complicated process and how it differs in the various systems. (There are many aspects of my book that go above and beyond what the typical technician needs but that is my approach! Know and understand as much as possible as problems can then be solved by deduction for those that like this level of understanding. Essential in my belief ) However, the Glossary has complicated my explanation! This and the index is written by other individuals. For some reason benzoyl peroxide is listed as a catalyst! I missed it so no excuse!!

The relevant explanation is in the main body of the book.

 

[geeg]

Thanks Marian after what I'm sure was a 'hard day at the office' for taking the time to come in and confirm what had been said already ... And in fact there was no conflict at all ... In complete agreement just a glossary defo which is very general, confusing the issue. Ah .. Now I can sleep easy ! Xx :hug:

 

[geeg]

Anyone care to take a stab at what is the catalyst and what is the initiator for wrap/resin systems? Feeling brave today? :lol: