Catalysts and Initiators

[Planky1]

Anyone care to take a stab at what is the catalyst and what is the initiator for wrap/resin systems? Feeling brave today? :lol:

Ok, I'll have a go

Is it not similar to L&P? So the catalyst is the spray or brush on resin and the initiator is the warmth of the finger?

My word, I've probably got that completely wrong! :o

Sent from my GT-I9300 using SalonGeek

 

[Victoriabar]

Wrap system,,

Is the catalyst the resin
And the initiator the activator?
Obv a huge stab in the dark

I'm loving this thread.. I love the total geekies of the tech side of it all.

 

[geeg]

Ok, I'll have a go

Is it not similar to L&P? So the catalyst is the spray or brush on resin and the initiator is the warmth of the finger?

My word, I've probably got that completely wrong! :o

Sent from my GT-I9300 using SalonGeek

Well done for trying Planky my girl!

In this case the warmth of the finger is not the catalyst nor The initiator .... Not that warmth does not play a part in every chemical reaction, but in this case the warmth is not playing a major role.

The catalyst in this case IS IN the activator (how ever you apply it).

Resin Activators are made up of a carrier liquid and the catalyst is carried in this liquid. The catalyst is the trace amount of Aromic Amine that is carried in the liquid (usually acetone, which is why it is better not to activate every single layer of resin). The Aromic Amine is what 'triggers' the polymerisation of the resin.

Now what is the initiator in the resin that it triggers?

 

[Planky1]

Well done for trying Planky my girl!

In this case the warmth of the finger is not the catalyst nor The initiator .... Not that warmth does not play a part in every chemical reaction, but in this case the warmth is not playing a major role.

The catalyst in this case IS IN the activator (how ever you apply it).

Resin Activators are made up of a carrier liquid and the catalyst is carried in this liquid. The catalyst is the trace amount of Aromic Amine that is carried in the liquid (usually acetone, which is why it is better not to activate every single layer of resin). The Aromic Amine is what 'triggers' the polymerisation of the resin.

Now what is the initiator in the resin that it triggers?

Air/Oxygen? :o

 

[Planky1]

Geeg! Don't leave me hanging and disappear, I'm sweating buckets here!! :wink2: :lol:

 

[geeg]

Wrap system,,

Is the catalyst the resin
And the initiator the activator?
Obv a huge stab in the dark

I'm loving this thread.. I love the total geekies of the tech side of it all.

Well done for giving it a go ...

Remember the important thing ... The catalyst is the 'starting gun'. The gun never changes form. It is on the outside and does not take part in the 'race, itself. So the resin could not be the catalyst because it obviously changes very much after the chain reaction occurs.

The initiator would not be the Activator because the Activator is external and stays outside the chemical reaction ... The Aromic Amine in the activator is your catalyst. I'm pretty sure that colleges will teach that the activator itself is the catalyst in order to keep things simple, but in actual fact it is the Aromic Amine in the activator.

 

[geeg]

Geeg! Don't leave me hanging and disappear, I'm sweating buckets here!! :wink2: :lol:

Sorry ... Wifi went dead for a few minutes ... Happens often here !!

Well it has to be something contained in the resin right?

 

[Victoriabar]

Well done for giving it a go ...

Remember the important thing ... The catalyst is the 'starting gun'. The gun never changes form. It is on the outside and does not take part in the 'race, itself. So the resin could not be the catalyst because it obviously changes very much after the chain reaction occurs.

The initiator would not be the Activator because the Activator is external and stays outside the chemical reaction ... The Aromic Amine in the activator is your catalyst. I'm pretty sure that colleges will teach that the activator itself is the catalyst in order to keep things simple, but in actual fact it is the Aromic Amine in the activator.

Thanks for that Geeg
We are covering this next week so it's fab to be able to take an Indepth veiw into it before hand.

Can all this Indepth stuff be found in Doug Schoons book?
I'd love to be able to read up more, take notes and basicly build my own knowledge.

 

[Victoriabar]

I'm sat here trying to google the composition of resin and my net has gone down aarrrggghhhhhh lol.

 

[Dol]

A very interesting and informative read! Thanks geeks

 

[Planky1]

Sorry ... Wifi went dead for a few minutes ... Happens often here !!

Well it has to be something contained in the resin right?

So it would be one of the ingredients in the resin that would react with the air to make it harden? I don't know the ingredients that are in resin because a) I'm not that knowledgeable (yet!) :lol: and b) as yet, I don't use it but I want to say the molecules in the main ingredient then react once the air hits them :o Whether I should say that is another thing :lol:

*dashes off to buy Marian's book*

 

[geeg]

I'm sat here trying to google the composition of resin and my net has gone down aarrrggghhhhhh lol.

Well, first it helps to know what kind of resin we use in the nail industry? Is it Methyl-Cyanoacrylate resin or is it Ethyl-Cyanoacrylate resin? What is the difference and is the difference important to us as nail technicians?

 

[geeg]

So it would be one of the ingredients in the resin that would react with the air to make it harden? I don't know the ingredients that are in resin because a) I'm not that knowledgeable (yet!) :lol: and b) as yet, I don't use it but I want to say the molecules in the main ingredient then react once the air hits them :o Whether I should say that is another thing :lol:

*dashes off to buy Marian's book*

Why do you think that air has something to do with the chemical reaction of the resin? No, it would be one of the ingredients in the resin that would react with the Aromic Amine (the catalyst) to polymerise the resin. Lol. What We are trying to establish is what the initiator might be that is contained in the resin?

 

[Planky1]

Well, first it helps to know what kind of resin we use in the nail industry? Is it Methyl-Cyanoacrylate resin or is it Ethyl-Cyanoacrylate resin? What is the difference and is the difference important to us as nail technicians?

Ok, well hands up, now you've lost me. I could cheat and use my good friend Google but I don't want to cheat, so I will await to see the answer here

LOVING this thread btw :hug:

 

[geeg]

Ok, well hands up, now you've lost me. I could cheat and use my good friend Google but I don't want to cheat, so I will await to see the answer here

LOVING this thread btw :hug:

It's actually a very important thing to know. It helps you deal with lots of client questions when they want to use stick-ons and SuperGlue. :lol: keep going ... You're doing well and you're thinking (a rare thing these days). We'll get to resin later after we've finished with the initiator !!

 

[Planky1]

Why do you think that air has something to do with the chemical reaction of the resin? No, it would be one of the ingredients in the resin that would react with the Aromic Amine (the catalyst) to polymerise the resin. Lol. What We are trying to establish is what the initiator might be that is contained in the resin?

Because as far as I understood, the moisture in the air would act as an initiator but I'm sensing I am completely off track! :lol: I'll keep thinking!!

 

[Rinn]

Well, first it helps to know what kind of resin we use in the nail industry? Is it Methyl-Cyanoacrylate resin or is it Ethyl-Cyanoacrylate resin? What is the difference and is the difference important to us as nail technicians?

i'm assuming that
methyl-cyanoacrylate is similiar to the dreaded methyl-methacrylate (MMA) which in it's liquid state can trigger allergic reactions and once set is very hard making it difficult to remove and is solvent resistant so cannot be soaked off. Extensions applied using this product are extemerly hard and will not break or give and may result in the natural nail being ripped/ torn form the nail bed instead.

Ethyl cyanoacrylate as with ethyl methacrylate is the safer alternative.

 

[Planky1]

i'm assuming that
methyl-cyanoacrylate is similiar to the dreaded methyl-methacrylate (MMA) which in it's liquid state can trigger allergic reactions and once set is very hard making it difficult to remove and is solvent resistant to cannot be soaked off. Extensions applied using this product are extemerly hard and will not break or give and may result in the natural nail being ripped/ torn form the nail bed instead.

Ethyl cyanoacrylate as with ethyl methacrylate is the safer alternative.

You so googled that Rinn :wink2: :lol: :lol:

 

[Rinn]

You so googled that Rinn :wink2: :lol: :lol:

As God is my witness I googled how to spell it properly that's all.

it's been discussed on here often enough for that much to have sunk in...

 

[Planky1]

As God is my witness I googled how to spell it properly that's all.

it's been discussed on here often enough for that much to have sunk in...

I was kidding. I need to do a lot more reading!!