Copyright on images

[tingle]

Hello

I wasn't sure how to title this.

My brother in law is a talented amateur photographer and he has taken some photos of my nail varnish bottle that I would like to make into a poster and also to use on my website.

Because the name of the company etc. is visible on the nail varnish bottle would I have to get their permission to use the picture from the company.

I didn't think I would but I thought I would see if anyone could give me a definitive answer.

Thanks

Lisa

 

[tog]

Can't give you a definitive answer, but - if you are using and promoting the company's products, then they should be pleased that you are generating more sales for them. I shouldn't think they'd have any major objections. If they did you'd stop using their product, one less customer for them.
Just my opinion, don't know the legalities I'm afraid.

 

[tingle]

Thank you Tog

Thats what I thought and then the little niggly doubt started when I thought about how you have to get permission before you can use logos on flyers and price lists and things.

Just got myself a bit confused LOL

 

[jo-from-moorspa]

Hopefully I can help here as I am a semi-pro photographer when I am not telling everyone how wonderful Moor Spa and Moor Products are.

The copyright of the image belongs to the photographer and you would be able to use it with his permission as art or personal poster. If you are using it for business reasons (like you plan to) then you either need permission from company that produces the nail varnish as their logo/get up is visable.

I hope that helps.

 

[tingle]

Hi

Thank you for your reply Jo,
so I would need the company's permission if you can see the logo.

So if you can just see the bottle with no company logo that should be ok?

It makes sense.

Thank you so much for clearing that up. Will now go and make sure images are ok.

Lisa

 

[Mrs Geek]

Hello

I wasn't sure how to title this.

My brother in law is a talented amateur photographer and he has taken some photos of my nail varnish bottle that I would like to make into a poster and also to use on my website.

Because the name of the company etc. is visible on the nail varnish bottle would I have to get their permission to use the picture from the company.

I didn't think I would but I thought I would see if anyone could give me a definitive answer.

Thanks

Lisa

If your brother has taken the picture - I still think you need to ask permission and I KNOW that CND would want to know and want to check the image because an image holding one of their products would make it look like it WAS their poster and if they didn't like it they could stop it or potentially sue whoever had done it. Imagine taking Chanel shots and making posters without their permission - best way is to call and ask said company and send the image for their approval! HTH's!

 

[tingle]

Hi

Thank you for all your replies.
I can completely understand how it would look from a company's persepective.

It just didnt dawn on me that there might be a problem as to me it was just a shot of my nail varnishes.

Thank you all for taking the time to answer what I thought was a silly question and I will take care in future what photographs I use. I think I just got carried away with the whole thing!

Lisa

 

[VHunter]

I have a question in regards to this:

Soon I am redoing my website, my logo and business cards and flyers.
I am an EZ Flow user.

Can I add the EZ Flow logo to my flyers & cards indicating my product of choice?

 

[jo-from-moorspa]

Hi

Thank you for your reply Jo,
so I would need the company's permission if you can see the logo.

So if you can just see the bottle with no company logo that should be ok?

It makes sense.

Thank you so much for clearing that up. Will now go and make sure images are ok.

Lisa

Maybe maybe not. A lot depends on how protective the company is to its get up (get up is actually a legal term). Some companies are very protective others aren't.

If you are using CND I think in this case it is pretty easy. Samuel has said that he would like it cleared by him so check.

If the image is good then I would guess that you would have no problem. Just get someone from the company to confirm it is ok in an email or writing to be on the safe side.

 

[jo-from-moorspa]

I have a question in regards to this:

Soon I am redoing my website, my logo and business cards and flyers.
I am an EZ Flow user.

Can I add the EZ Flow logo to my flyers & cards indicating my product of choice?

Victoria, the best thing to do is ask.

 

[steve@nouvatan]

technically with logos /company names that are trademarked you do need the logo owners permission to display it publicly on posters web sites ect
We have never said no to anybody as its great advertising and it costs us nothing

 

[duffield1]

Steve@Nouvatan is correct - if a brand is trademarked, then you should ask permission. However, for this to apply, they would have to display the trademark logo (T) on their products. If no (T) is present, then you don't need to ask permission.

I've taken product shots for years - as long as you are promoting the products in a way suitable with the brand identity (i.e. not suggesting that the nail varnish is great for graffiti as it won't come off), I'd be amazed if any product house would object, let alone try and take you to court.

However, make sure that you stop using this image if/when you change product houses, or that can be a problem with you using imagery that does not accurately depict the services you offer!

 

[jo-from-moorspa]

Steve@Nouvatan is correct - if a brand is trademarked, then you should ask permission. However, for this to apply, they would have to display the trademark logo (T) on their products. If no (T) is present, then you don't need to ask permission.

I've taken product shots for years - as long as you are promoting the products in a way suitable with the brand identity (i.e. not suggesting that the nail varnish is great for graffiti as it won't come off), I'd be amazed if any product house would object, let alone try and take you to court.

However, make sure that you stop using this image if/when you change product houses, or that can be a problem with you using imagery that does not accurately depict the services you offer!

Unfortunately that is not true. Companies have rights over non-registered trade mark and get up.

 

[duffield1]

Yes, they have rights over the brand, but they cannot object if a retailer, who has purchased the product through a recognised stockist, uses photographs of that product to promote their business.

My understanding is (albeit from when I did my law degree 15 years ago!) they could complain if the business did not sell the products or if they are potentially damaging the brand, but merely showing photographs of products that you sell does not break copyright.

 

[duffield1]

Jeez, some of these replies made me rather nervous that I had misunderstood the law, so I contacted the UK Copyright Service to check. They said:

I asked:
> As a retailer of products, can I take and use photographs of the products that I sell (and buy from a wholesaler) to promote my business, or would this infringe the manufacturer's copyright. For example, if I take a photo of a can of Heinz Baked Beans so that I can stick a poster in my window saying "Only 49p/can", do I need permission from Heinz to do this?

They replied:
I do not believe that there is an infringement or need for permission of the image if the image is purely used to illustrate a item for sale.

However, there was a caveat on the email that said:
The information in this mail does not amount to legal advice or opinion.
Any views or legal references are those of the author and are based on personal opinion or understanding only.

 

[VHunter]

Let me see if I understand this...

They are a "Copyright Service", and yet they don't know for sure, without a doubt, the right answer?
They only "think"?
If they don't "know", who does then? Who does that leave us to ask to get the right answer?

 

[champagne]

Best thing to do...ring and ask the company if its ok.....I would do this if only just out of courtesy x

Oh and ask for confirmation via letter or email x

 

[duffield1]

Let me see if I understand this...

They are a "Copyright Service", and yet they don't know for sure, without a doubt, the right answer?
They only "think"?
If they don't "know", who does then? Who does that leave us to ask to get the right answer?

I've put the same question to the Intellectual Property Office (Intellectual Property Office - Welcome to the Intellectual Property Office) today - hopefully, they will know!

 

[duffield1]

Finally had a reply back from them:

Thank you for your enquiry regarding copyright. Please note that I am unable to provide you with any legal advice, however I hope the following information is of use.

The general rule of copyright ownership is that the creator/author of the work is the first owner of the copyright in the work.

Photographs, under section 4(2) of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, are classed as artistic works. Therefore, if you take a photograph you own the copyright in the artistic work (unless you take the picture in the course of employment or some other contractual agreement). This includes taking a picture of somebody or something in public; they would have no copyright rights over the photograph.

Brand named groceries may afford both copyright and more likely trade mark protection. For example, the images/ artwork on the can of baked beans could be protected as an artistic work, and the brand name 'Heinz' is a registered Trade Mark.

According to section 63 of the Act, it is not an infringement of an artistic work to copy it, or to issue copies to the public, for the purpose of advertising the sale of the work.

Trademark law as such does not restrict the use of a trademark in a photograph. However it does forbid someone using a trademark in a way that can cause confusion regarding the affiliation of the trademark owner to the image. If consumers are likely to mistakenly believe that a photograph was sponsored by the trademark owner, then there may be trademark infringement.

For more information regarding copyright issues, please visit our website, www.ipo.gov.uk .

I hope this is of some assistance.

Kind regards,

Copyright and IP Enforcement Directorate, Intellectual Property Office

I've highlighted the bits that probably cause the most confusion - I guess that both of these would be down to the interpretation of the judge if the product owner every decided to sue, but I suspect that the case would be thrown out if you were a legitimate supplier.

However, if you have obtained your product via a dubious, non-official stockist, then you might be in trouble - it was in the trade mags this week that Dermalogica have been successful in getting Boots to withdraw Dermalogica products which they obtained from a supplier overseas.

Hope this helps and clears it all up - sorry it has taken a while.

 

[tingle]

Hi everyone

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has helped me with this question especially duffield1 who has cleared it up in my mind.

I understand that it is the trade mark that is the problem and not the copyright. I have bought it through legitimate means so there should be no problem there but I will contact the company and see if they are ok with it aswell. No harm in being covered.

Thank you all again for taking the time to answer my questions and I will me more aware in the future.

Lisa