Dangerous dogs or irresponsible owners?

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I'm really lost now - I thought this was a discussion !!!!!

What don't you agree with - I'm real confused cos I can't seem to fathom what you are disagreeing with in my post.

I've not disagreed with what anyone had said, quite the opposite.

What is it about Sam that you have the issue with - I can only assume you meant that Sam should be destroyed - if that's so it was never said!

If u were able to handle Sam then on good on you!

Please explain what has got you back up

Im really lost now. Sam was put yo sleep because she was aggressive. We couldn't handle her and we couldn't rehome her with a clear concience. It was a heartbreaking decision and your implication, came across to me that you were saying ahe could have been rehomed as dogs "love the hand that feeds them" so can come round. I was saying that she was very aggressive with anyone outside the close family and offering Tit Bits would not have earned her love

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It's been said a million times on here but il remind folks

Text has no tone

Especially not the word "yes" how you cam get sarcastic from "yes" is beyond me. Next thing will be that using that word was akin to bullying lol

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Im really lost now. Sam was put yo sleep because she was aggressive. We couldn't handle her and we couldn't rehome her with a clear concience. It was a heartbreaking decision and your implication, came across to me that you were saying ahe could have been rehomed as dogs "love the hand that feeds them" so can come round. I was saying that she was very aggressive with anyone outside the close family and offering Tit Bits would not have earned her love

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Ok I think this has got so far out of context,
I never said she could have been rehomed. I actually said if you re read that aggressive dogs should be put down because they can't be re handled.
Sounds like u did the best with Sam.

With regards to shepherds being able to be rehandled this is in regards to the breed / not specific to Sam. Hence the reason why these working dogs get rehandled all the time.

My posts have not been in response to anything that you have posted today, only my opinion and experience with working with aggressive dogs and what should be done with them.

Im actually quite upset with how your posts have come across - not one person on here has questioned your dog - I actually would praise u for trying your best with her !
 
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“Nearlyme:
Yep. We should have rehomed it with someone without kids and then when they decided that they couldnt cope they could sell it on fB or gumtree and it could them go to a family with kids or grandkids. Mind you sheps don't do well with re homing a lot of the time as they form such strong pack bonds with their owners. One of their characteristics is to be aloof tp strangers. This is why theyake such good police and army dogs. They bond with their owner/handler and will ignore anyone else untill the owner/handler says so.”
Your opening statement here sounded a little sarcastic to me. Maybe I'm wrong?


“LieLash:
Sorry have to disagree with this - shepherds will bond with anyone / that's why they are so easy to re handle - is humans love to think " awe he loves me so much " kind of true but they will love the hand that feeds
They make good army and police dogs because it's the only breed with over 200 million scent receptors? Is big, looks the part and has both defence and prey drive.”
LieLash disagreed with you about some breed characteristics and things here from what I can gather.


“Nearlyme:
Maybe you could have taken Sam on. And been a prisoner in your own home. Unable to walk her or risk guests coming into your home. Maybe people who are critical of the decision we had to make could have taken her and lived in tge country in the middle of nowhere with her. I mean she hated sheep and cows and would quite easilly of taken down a herd of sheep if she escaped and you would have had to arrange for your post to br delivered to another address because she particularly hated men in hats like post men. Its not nice being held a prisoner by your pet, to be constantly checking your house and Garden is dead bolted and standing with her in the garden whilst she did her business in case she killed a psssing cat.
Funny though, because if you had agreed to take her own you could have come to collect her. And when you approached her she could have done as she did with everyone and back you into a corner snarling and growling at you. She would have got used to you I am sure, I mean she hated everyone other then my mum and us kids even if they visited the house everyday she would act the same with them but you would have been fine I am sure”
Sarcastic may have been the wrong word but either way I don’t see how the tone of this post could be perceived as positive. I understand that your/your mother’s dog had to be put down due to behavioural issues which by the post quoted below I more that sure LieLash wouldn’t dispute this reason as it is as sad but necessary reason for the ending of an animals life. But you appeared to have assumed she was disputing this which is why I said you took her reply out of context.


“LieLash:
We had one dog called paddy, bred by the police, well brought up by puppy walkers but at a year old on its novice course it proper attacked it's handler
Then did it to a trainer / all for no real reason - the preserved with it, more and more handlers got bitten and put In hospital in then end it had to be destroyed. Turned out it had a brain tumour

So who would have likes to have retrain that dog????”

Does everyone get where I was coming from? Sorry if any of my points were confusing or I’ve got the wrong end of the stick anywhere. X
 
As an ex police dog handler I worked and trained a number of large dogs over the years:
And I can tell you, these problems that are encountered with dogs including dog attacks and dog behaviour are down to one thing only - humans.

We bring these dogs into our world, and expect them to think and behave like humans and that where it begins.
How many owners actually flip this and try to behave like a dog - very few is the answer. These dogs don't choose to be brought into a human pack to have to try and understand without any form of decent training what is expected of them and this makes me mad.

If you want to buy a horse, or run a cow dairy then most people would have some experience as well a high level of knowledge on these animals. However when it comes to dogs people think they can just rock up, pick the cute doggy and take it home where it miraculously without any training turned into the most well trained human dog in the world - and this is the problem. People like this anger me because the dog then gets blamed for its unruly dog like behaviour and the dog gets punished.
Even with my working dogs that went through severe training for most of their lives still had the odd blip or override of natural instinct when a rabbit popped up whilst on a track / this you can't get out of them. But you must understand this dog behaviour and accommodate it and anticipate it will happen.

Dogs do not have voices, or hands to push someone away, they have mouths, this is what they use. How many of us have ever given someone a stern shove in disapproval of their actions? For dogs this is bite - a behaviour that will then tarnish this animal for ever.

Dogs are the most amazing creatures ever, far superior in my opinion to any human and that fact that the majority are purchased by people that have no idea infuriates me.

All dogs are working creatures / they need a purpose, the ability to hunt and search / something most never get to do because their owner thinks they are quite happy to lay by the fire or have a little lead walk. How many owners train their dogs in exercises to keep them mentally motivated such as agility, searching for objects etc / the answer in none, they just drag them along for a little sniff and that's it. Again how many dogs are left alone all day, instead they should be out in the car, seeing new things, smelling new things, not locked in the house, they need to run and play and be dogs, not pets cos we want something that looks nice and fluffy.

I still have my retired police dog he's nearly ten and he's still as sharpe as a knife because every day he goes out in the car twice and day and with my mum to our horses where he gets the roam the yard and be a dog.

When he is gone I will not get another dog despite my love for them and the reason is because I work too long an hours now to give a dog the time and training it needs. I would have time to walk in morning and eve but I know that not enough ( dogs don't actually need to be walked) / they don't walk themselves in the wild / they need mental stimulation And because I love an understand dogs I put them first and know that I currently couldn't give a dog that.

In an ideal world is like to see dog owners to need a licence or some form of qualification to own a dog. It will never happen though do until them we will have to sit back and watch dogs get the blame for having to live in a human world!!'


Excellent post Lielash - Thankyou!

I'm only getting round to reading the rest of these now. Could I please ask for the thread to remain on topic otherwise I will close xx
 
Ok I think this has got so far out of context,
I never said she could have been rehomed. I actually said if you re read that aggressive dogs should be put down because they can't be re handled.
Sounds like u did the best with Sam.

With regards to shepherds being able to be rehandled this is in regards to the breed / not specific to Sam. Hence the reason why these working dogs get rehandled all the time.

My posts have not been in response to anything that you have posted today, only my opinion and experience with working with aggressive dogs and what should be done with them.

Im actually quite upset with how your posts have come across - not one person on here has questioned your dog - I actually would praise u for trying your best with her !

I think maybe everyone is being a tad sensitive.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using SalonGeek mobile app
 
“Nearlyme:
Yep. We should have rehomed it with someone without kids and then when they decided that they couldnt cope they could sell it on fB or gumtree and it could them go to a family with kids or grandkids. Mind you sheps don't do well with re homing a lot of the time as they form such strong pack bonds with their owners. One of their characteristics is to be aloof tp strangers. This is why theyake such good police and army dogs. They bond with their owner/handler and will ignore anyone else untill the owner/handler says so.”
Your opening statement here sounded a little sarcastic to me. Maybe I'm wrong?


“LieLash:
Sorry have to disagree with this - shepherds will bond with anyone / that's why they are so easy to re handle - is humans love to think " awe he loves me so much " kind of true but they will love the hand that feeds
They make good army and police dogs because it's the only breed with over 200 million scent receptors? Is big, looks the part and has both defence and prey drive.”
LieLash disagreed with you about some breed characteristics and things here from what I can gather.


“Nearlyme:
Maybe you could have taken Sam on. And been a prisoner in your own home. Unable to walk her or risk guests coming into your home. Maybe people who are critical of the decision we had to make could have taken her and lived in tge country in the middle of nowhere with her. I mean she hated sheep and cows and would quite easilly of taken down a herd of sheep if she escaped and you would have had to arrange for your post to br delivered to another address because she particularly hated men in hats like post men. Its not nice being held a prisoner by your pet, to be constantly checking your house and Garden is dead bolted and standing with her in the garden whilst she did her business in case she killed a psssing cat.
Funny though, because if you had agreed to take her own you could have come to collect her. And when you approached her she could have done as she did with everyone and back you into a corner snarling and growling at you. She would have got used to you I am sure, I mean she hated everyone other then my mum and us kids even if they visited the house everyday she would act the same with them but you would have been fine I am sure”
Sarcastic may have been the wrong word but either way I don’t see how the tone of this post could be perceived as positive. I understand that your/your mother’s dog had to be put down due to behavioural issues which by the post quoted below I more that sure LieLash wouldn’t dispute this reason as it is as sad but necessary reason for the ending of an animals life. But you appeared to have assumed she was disputing this which is why I said you took her reply out of context.


“LieLash:
We had one dog called paddy, bred by the police, well brought up by puppy walkers but at a year old on its novice course it proper attacked it's handler
Then did it to a trainer / all for no real reason - the preserved with it, more and more handlers got bitten and put In hospital in then end it had to be destroyed. Turned out it had a brain tumour

So who would have likes to have retrain that dog????”

Does everyone get where I was coming from? Sorry if any of my points were confusing or I’ve got the wrong end of the stick anywhere. X

That is a lot of effort to try and prove a point. Try not to over think.

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Thank you tonicj

I will now be stepping out of this discussion.

I think 99% of people on here have added fantastic opinions and most have all been through their own experience.

Unfortunately along the way it seems that some have maybe taken it the wrong way and misinterpreted what was said - why? I have no idea as this was just a post to offer opinions and having read it all I'm not aware of any body having challenged another on their thoughts or actions.

Enjoy this topic ladies and hope u continue to discuss a fantastic subject without upsetting someone. X
 
Excellent post Lielash - Thankyou!

I'm only getting round to reading the rest of these now. Could I please ask for the thread to remain on topic otherwise I will close xx

By the time youv got to here youl be pulling your hair out!
 
That is a lot of effort to try and prove a point. Try not to over think.

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I had to go to the effort to explain my point. I don't like it when people don't understand what I mean by something. I've probably wasted a lot of my time in my life explaining myself this way but I'm just one of those people who can't leave something alone if people don't get my point in the first place.
Just a flaw of mine I guess x
 
Thank you tonicj

I will now be stepping out of this discussion.

I think 99% of people on here have added fantastic opinions and most have all been through their own experience.

Unfortunately along the way it seems that some have maybe taken it the wrong way and misinterpreted what was said - why? I have no idea as this was just a post to offer opinions and having read it all I'm not aware of any body having challenged another on their thoughts or actions.

Enjoy this topic ladies and hope u continue to discuss a fantastic subject without upsetting someone. X

Ok, sorry you had to leave the thread Lielash. Thank you to all who contributed positively! I think it's now a good time to close the thread.
 
Ok I think this has got so far out of context,
I never said she could have been rehomed. I actually said if you re read that aggressive dogs should be put down because they can't be re handled.
Sounds like u did the best with Sam.

With regards to shepherds being able to be rehandled this is in regards to the breed / not specific to Sam. Hence the reason why these working dogs get rehandled all the time.

My posts have not been in response to anything that you have posted today, only my opinion and experience with working with aggressive dogs and what should be done with them.

Im actually quite upset with how your posts have come across - not one person on here has questioned your dog - I actually would praise u for trying your best with her !

I was pointing out that the characteristics sam had were extreme examples of typical shepherd behavior and traits which have been bred into them though 100s of years of breeding. I felt that you were disputing the fact that certain breeds of dog have certain behaviours which can be attributed to their breed.
For example. If a GSD with a strong guard instinct was bred with another GSD with a srong guard instinct. Then one of the puppies who had inherited this bred with another dog which also had parents with strong guard instinct then chances are that the pups are going to display extremes of that character.

This is why I would never buy a staffie from certain people. They deliberately breed their dogs to have strong jaws and muscles. They often advertise as "bit of pitt" in em (not illegal). These puppys are, unfortunately the ones that het to 18 months and end up in rescues. Who knows when something might trigger an aggressive response from this dog which has these characteristics laid dormant

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What for, answering a question?

Shall I re phase. Yes I disagree with your opinion, it happens sometimes, its called life. Pleanty of people disgree with my opinion but I do not accuse them of having "a pop" just arguing/discussing something they believe in.

Pauline I often see you leaping in becoming affronted at something someone has said to someone else and leaping in. Cant you just let people talk between themselves? I actually think it kinda looks like you are trying to stir up trouble and inflame tempers.

Im not angry that Colleen had disagreed with me in several posts, this hasnt made me ask if she is "having a pop". I thought that was the idea of a discussion? To hear different peoplea opinions and express why you do/do not feel the same?

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I have no idea what you are talking about. I had to look back at my previous posts to see where you have got the idea that I want to stir up tempers and that I "leap in" to others conversations.

Firstly, this is a public forum. There is no leaping in to others conversation. Secondly, yes I believe our paths have crossed in one other thread before. You, again had made a few unsavoury comments to a newbie, if I remember correctly.

It seems I'm not the only one who feels like this.

I will communicate with you via PM so this doesn't turn into to our <discussion>
 
I have no idea what you are talking about. I had to look back at my previous posts to see where you have got the idea that I want to stir up tempers and that I "leap in" to others conversations.

Firstly, this is a public forum. There is no leaping in to others conversation. Secondly, yes I believe our paths have crossed in one other thread before. You, again had made a few unsavoury comments to a newbie, if I remember correctly.

It seems I'm not the only one who feels like this.

I will communicate with you via PM so this doesn't turn into to our <discussion>

With all due respect I am merely pointing out that without making 1 single little contribution to this thread you chose to come in with "gobsmacked". Completely out of the blue. No comments had mentioned you, you had not been quoted in any capacity and yet you came in with something completely irrelevant, nothing to do with the debate, nothing at all. Just a one word, unconstructive comment which was designed to cause upset and trouble.
May I suggest that of you have nothing yo contribute re dogs and their owners that you refrain from making any contribution at all? Including private messaging

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Oh wow- this is becoming ridiculous now!

Why is this thread still open?!
Tonicj...... Maybe time to call time on this one!
 
Oh wow- this is becoming ridiculous now!

Why is this thread still open?!
Tonicj...... Maybe time to call time on this one!

Have asked for it to be closed hazeleyes! Am I supposed to close myself? If so how do I do that? Not technically minded, I'm afraid!
 
With all due respect I am merely pointing out that without making 1 single little contribution to this thread you chose to come in with "gobsmacked". Completely out of the blue. No comments had mentioned you, you had not been quoted in any capacity and yet you came in with something completely irrelevant, nothing to do with the debate, nothing at all. Just a one word, unconstructive comment which was designed to cause upset and trouble.
May I suggest that of you have nothing yo contribute re dogs and their owners that you refrain from making any contribution at all? Including private messaging

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I have enjoyed reading this thread until your nasty little reply. So you may not suggest I refrain from anything. I am a dog lover/owner.

My comment was designed to say "stop it nasty". I had a look back at your comments, posts and threads (as you seemed to have done) and it seems you are the one who continually has little fights all over the place. You should perhaps take a second to think about what you are saying.

..and with this I am out of this conversation. I am not going to get involved in an arguement with you (seems all your interested in).
 
Oh wow- this is becoming ridiculous now!

Why is this thread still open?!
Tonicj...... Maybe time to call time on this one!

Most threads turn out like this in the end .. even without my influence. ... ha ha. however I have a soft spot for Dacshunds but as my indoor Guinea pig is the size of one and torments my cat. ..I'll leave it.

Some good points made in this thread. I thought it was interesting.

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You have raised a good point here. If dogs are in pain, they have no way to tell us other than to growl or snap. I have seen many times, more so with smaller breeds, kid's and adults just lifting them when they feel like it and being very playful, all with good intentions of course. It can be at a time like this that the dog could snap and injure someone and then the poor dog is in trouble. I think there definitely needs to be more awareness.

Totally agree:D
 
Have asked for it to be closed hazeleyes! Am I supposed to close myself? If so how do I do that? Not technically minded, I'm afraid!

Hmmm I'm not entirely sure either! Mods- where u at??!!
 
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