Help needed..all 10 nails lifting but not at free edge?

[Fab Freak]

I scultped a set the other day (see flat as pancakes thread) on a lady who had very wide nail and almost triangular nails, with extreemly dry skin all aroumd the skin.....and they are now alll lifting from zone 3 and upto and including zone 2 :irked: .but rock solid on the free edge.

My prep was cool blue, cuticle remover, citiri soak, 240 grit to remove shine and scrub fresh, then applied performance form and then sculpted a pink and white using Rention+

apparantly this happend when she wore Gel overlays on her own nails previously they all lifted in zones 2 and zones 3...

I dont know why this has happened...I have done a thorough prep, could she have excessivly oily nail plates, will Nail Fresh cure this?

Is there another suggestions, please help me I am gutted and the client is being patient I am going back on Friday to try and put another set on...


PS I did one nail last night and scrubbed like crazy with Scrub fresh, applied more cuticle remover, cleaned it off with citri soak scrub freshed again then applied acid free primer and applied...too see what happens without Nail Fresh ...


PS .I didnt particularly notice any difference....I didn't notice them pink back up so to speak but i was nervous about doing a nice enhancement on such a unusual nail shape

 

[MadAboutNails]

I haven't a solution but........I had this problem once when I was training at college. A neighbour of mine, her nails went exactly the same. I never got to the reason why/how etc. She'd not been feeling too well and ended up on some long term medication for some unknown virus but whether that was any reason I don't know.
I'll be watching this space for some ideas too!

 

[Fab Freak]

FYI ...as I understand medication has no effect on the application or ahesion of any enhancement....

But thanks for the feedback it all helps

 

[mum]

Anything systemic (i.e affects the systems in the body) can affect the condition of the nails but.....you are right about the application. The bond is with the surface of the nail only.

2 possible reasons why the free edge is ok: one is that is is dryer than the nail over the nail plate (been around longer and no soggy nail bed providing lots of moisture) plus, with sculpting you are 'locking' around the edge.

Definately sounds like a preparation issue. Sometimes it takes a bit of time to get to know a new client and their nails. It may be that they are oilier than usual or it may be that they are excessively dry and have soaked up the remover and soak that you used (nails are 10 times more absorbant than skin in a normal condition, much more if very dry) and this is forming a barrier to a good bond.

My suggestion would be to avoid any products that have oil or moisture in them immediatly before application and just use a dehydrator (this will not make them even drier if this is the problem). Then recommend using lots of cuticle oil after.

Some ideas I hope
Marian

 

[The Geek]

Have you combed through the PREP tutorial on here?
My suggestion is to use NailFresh in your application on this client. However if her nail plates are excessively thin or malformed (i.e. Ski Jump) than another approach may be needed.

HTH's

 

[Fab Freak]

Anything systemic (i.e affects the systems in the body) can affect the condition of the nails but.....you are right about the application. The bond is with the surface of the nail only.

2 possible reasons why the free edge is ok: one is that is is dryer than the nail over the nail plate (been around longer and no soggy nail bed providing lots of moisture) plus, with sculpting you are 'locking' around the edge.

Definately sounds like a preparation issue. Sometimes it takes a bit of time to get to know a new client and their nails. It may be that they are oilier than usual or it may be that they are excessively dry and have soaked up the remover and soak that you used (nails are 10 times more absorbant than skin in a normal condition, much more if very dry) and this is forming a barrier to a good bond.

My suggestion would be to avoid any products that have oil or moisture in them immediatly before application and just use a dehydrator (this will not make them even drier if this is the problem). Then recommend using lots of cuticle oil after.

Some ideas I hope
Marian

Thank you for the advise...her free edge is very dry and I did apply a cuticle oil prior to the application as her skin was soooo dry, but not on the nail..., wont do that again...as it obviously added to the problem even though I thoroughly dehydrated the nail

 

[Fab Freak]

Have you combed through the PREP tutorial on here?
My suggestion is to use NailFresh in your application on this client. However if her nail plates are excessively thin or malformed (i.e. Ski Jump) than another approach may be needed.

HTH's

She does have very thin nails plates - in fact her nails are pants....(sorry client) and yes they are slightly ski-jump...Which does not help matters....she seems to think that tip and overlay will be the answer, I think other wise...that scultping is the best way...

her nails are flat, very short nail plate...dry free edge which is flaking......god she needs a miricle worker...

I really want her to have some beautifull enhancments...she is a lovely lady and realise her nails are not in the best condition, and I really want to make her very happy and feel elegant, which she isnt right now...

 

[MadAboutNails]

Not every medication effects nail adhesion but we were told on our course (NVQ 19) that certain types could affect the oil content of nails, skin etc. So really had to do extra good prep and if problem persists, to use primer and prep boosters until you got to the bottom of it. Then if all else fails..... sliently scream!! and go back over your consultation incase there was something was missed out!

I didn't get the chance to redo my neighbours nails with extra prep boosters etc, she felt too ill! That was 6 months ago. But I shall try again!!!

 

[Fab Freak]

Not every medication effects nail adhesion but we were told on our course (NVQ 19) that certain types could affect the oil content of nails, skin etc.

Interesting I really would like clarification on this subject...

I am sure I have read on this site the exact opposite.. I hope I cause no offence with in doubting your word

 

[The Geek]

There is no scientific evidence that points to illness/suppliments/etc... affect the natural nail plate and the ability for product to bond to it.

Saying that... things like illness can affect the cells being produced by the matrix (not really enough to make it something other than Keratin though!). Therefore, things like illness can affect the natural nail plate somewhat, but those cells will not even be visible for 4-6 weeks AFTER the supposed 'illness'.

Hope this helps!

 

[Fab Freak]

However if her nail plates are excessively thin or malformed (i.e. Ski Jump) than another approach may be needed.

HTH's

Sorry to pester, but I would love to know what you recommend...

 

[MadAboutNails]

It's ok Louise. . . I've mentioned this before and I will dig out my notes and speak to my tutor, she's been doing nails for 27yrs etc. I think it's like Marian (mum) said, anything systemic etc. Probably isn't the actual medication but the effect it can have on the nails making them oilier. I even checked with a chemist and they said every medication affects people in slightly different ways (side effects etc) and there are probably some that do affect the condition of nails, hair etc. No hard and fast rule what may affect one person one way, another has no problem whatsoever! A nightmare as far as i'm concerned! I think it's just to be aware of it and do extra careful prep etc...just incase!

 

[The Geek]

If the nail plates are thin and damaged to the point it is advesly affecting product adhesion you may want to consider natural nail care until some (or all) of the damage grows out.

If the nails are malformed (i.e. Ski Jump) then they need a slightly different application approach (in the example of Ski Jump nails, the tip will need to be applied at a slight downward angle where the contact area will not be coming into complete contact with the natural nail)

As to the medication causing lifting aspect... it may casue the body to produce more oil and/or moisture as a side effect... however medication itself cant really cause lifting as such.

HTH's

 

[Fab Freak]

If the nail plates are thin and damaged to the point it is advesly affecting product adhesion you may want to consider natural nail care until some (or all) of the damage grows out.

If the nails are malformed (i.e. Ski Jump) then they need a slightly different application approach (in the example of Ski Jump nails, the tip will need to be applied at a slight downward angle where the contact area will not be coming into complete contact with the natural nail)

As to the medication causing lifting aspect... it may casue the body to produce more oil and/or moisture as a side effect... however medication itself cant really cause lifting as such.

HTH's

It does but how do might she not have thin nail plates natural (due to the matrix) there are no marks on the nail to give any clues if they have been thinned by the last technician... :!:

So I really should TIP and NOT sculpt in this case, and use a tip which has very little c curve like an eclipse?

PS thanks for all the advise...

 

[geeg]

I think everyone is missing one very obvious point to me anyway. And that is how a malformed shape itself can put the enhancement under weird pressures and in itself be the cause of lifting.

If the skin was excessively dry, then itis highly unlikely that the nail plate was excessively oily.

When a nail grows in the oposite direction to the way it normally should (and by the way these types of nails are usually thinner than normal too), then each time the nail is moved or knocked, the pressure is UP not DOWN.
Doing lasting nails is all about these stresses and strains and trying to build a nail that will put up with them. It's all physics really.

I think her nail shape is the contributing factor in the lifting as well as the fact that she may have clammy hands and the excess moisture in the nails (not oil) has also played a part. Ski jump 'people' often sweat from their hands and do not wear enhancemnts well.

 

[Fab Freak]

Hi Gigi..

What do you think I should recommend to the client in this case then?

She really wants to have a set of enhancements, could another system be more suitable in this case?

I am seeing her tomorrow evening and would love to me armed with all the information so we can discuss options and move forward.

Should I tip or scult?
Use wraps instead of L&P

 

[Mani-fique!]

Hi there.... I don't know whether you've thought of this already but I was reading up and something the other day in the old posts .... can't remember what but I came across a comment by Ruth that nails that are very thin naturally are ideal candidates for Fabric#... now I've not tried it yet but my nails are very thin, fan and fairly flat. I have trouble keeping enamel on .... only lasts hours, as my nails are so flexible... I also get tons of lifting because of the same reason..... (as well as inexperience)

Fabric# is very flexible so will move with the nail. As far as ski slope is concerned that is a tough one but if you keep the natural nail short and tip them then that will help. When the natural nail gets so long underneath that its causing problems.... then soak off and re apply, filing the nails short again..... so long as you're not soaking off too often and the client doesn't mind her own nails being shortened each time.

HTH....

 

[geeg]

I think Tamm's advice here is excellent.

Instead of a full service why not do a couple of nails of each type on this client (I would use tips) and see how they adhere. Follow Tamms advice .. ie short, tip, etc. A small skijump will be no problem for Fabric# as you can build with it.

I'm sure the client will be pleased to take part in the experiment if she is going to get the right system for her nails in the end.