Insurance question re waxing!

[MissOwen]

Hi,

We are glad we have got the opportunity to clarify some of the issues that this thread raises.

The Guild maintains very high standards of accreditation throughout. Our accreditation process helps to safeguard standards. It also means that we know the content and quality of every course that we accredit in order to offer our members insurance for that qualification. It would be highly irresponsible and dangerous of us to insure courses that we had not been through in detail. If other insurers are willing to accept any certificate, that says more about them, than it does about our processes.

When an application for accreditation is received we check the course content thoroughly. We also ensure that every trainer not only has qualifications and experience in their subject, we also make sure that they are adequately qualified to teach. We will reject any applications which do not meet our standards, which means students can book courses with confidence.

Our accreditation does not stop at the application. Once we have approved a course we will monitor any complaints received. We take them very seriously and we investigate each one thoroughly. If any school is found to not be maintaining high enough standards we will withdraw our accreditation.

If you take a look at the Beautyguild.com Training Directory you will see there are 380 accredited training schools and therefore thousands of accredited courses, meaning that the choice available to Guild members is far from restricted. We publish the list of accredited schools online and in each issue of the Guild Gazette which ensures that our members are fully aware of what is available to them and what courses we will accept for our membership and insurance.

I hope that this helps to clear up a few things.

Jack - as I'm sure you will appreciate, we are not able to discuss individual memberships on a public forum. I know a Director of the Guild has spoken to you this morning and clarified your own insurance position. If anyone else has individual concerns please contact us directly.

I think I must be the only person who thinks its a good thing that an insurance company is wants to check and regulate the courses it covers.

Having seen many complaints on SG about how the insurance companies do a poor job of keeping up standards and will just accredit anything, i can only see this as a good thing.

My insurance is due at the end of this month and having just checked that all my courses are covered by the guild, i think i may be moving over from my current supplier

 

[squidgernetball]

The fact they want to see your certificates before covering you hasn't protected Jack as he says in his post above (well the last page) that he rang the Guild & forwarded them a copy of his Kim Lawless BABTAC accredited intimate waxing certificate and was told yes he is covered - but if the Guild only cover Guild accredited courses then he has been waxing the Kim Lawless way & NOT been covered (I don't know if they have actually told him he or isn't covered, I am going on the fact they don't cover any other courses but their own, this tells me he wasn't covered).

It is your responsibility to ensure you are covered with your qualifications and I would ALWAYS advise that this is done in writing (an email is fine) so you can produce a copy of them telling you that you ARE covered with that certificate should they decide to say your not covered.

As you say, we don't know what has been said, but I would think it very hard for an insurance company to avoid paying out if they have seen your certificates, taken your money and told you that you are insured. Do The Guild request certs before insuring? I don't know is the answer!

Just read Jacks post again - so they did see his certificate - that opens a whole new can of worms!!!

 

[tjmadmum]

This is a worry for me too as I changed to the Guild in July. I did say I would be doing Kim's course in the New Year and I was told just to send in my cert. There is no way I am going to another trainer as in my eyes Kim is streaks ahead of other trainers!

So it looks like I will be looking for another insurance company next July! Shame as I was quite happy with them, it also means I cannot do my training with Kim till next July which has really annoyed me!

 

[Lil'Gem]

Im due to renew my insurance and am with salon gold but they dont cover face and body painting so im thinking of going with ABT as i looked into babtac and the women said they wouldnt cover some of my courses as they arnt acredited through them... But they are acredited... And ABT seemed helpful and said they were happy with all my certs xx

my warm waxing was acredited with ABT this is one babtac wouldnt cover :-\

Sent from my GT-I9100P using SalonGeek mobile app

I'm insured with Salon Gold and have cover to face paint. I did have to provide proof of training (certificate) which they investigated. Might be worth speaking to them again x

 

[sanilulu]

.... This is worrying .... !!!!
Looks like the insurance co's will be busy on the phone tomorrow clearing this up ...
I know I'll be straight on the phone tomorrow finding out if I'm fully insured as not all of my courses were 'guild accredited but are accredited by others ... !!!!


Sent from my iPhone using SalonGeek app

 

[Kim Lawless]

This is a worry for me too as I changed to the Guild in July. I did say I would be doing Kim's course in the New Year and I was told just to send in my cert. There is no way I am going to another trainer as in my eyes Kim is streaks ahead of other trainers!

So it looks like I will be looking for another insurance company next July! Shame as I was quite happy with them, it also means I cannot do my training with Kim till next July which has really annoyed me!

Can you not cancel your policy and get a refund? If not, change insisted and you'll make your loss back in one Brazilian alone once you train with me.

I love BABTAC but I believe in freedom of choice, so check all the others out. Many great insurance companies out there who don't try to have the monopoly.

Ps. Afterthought! If The Guild said it would be ok then check before you cancel. I know lots of my students are happily insured with them and they have only done Brazilian training with me.

Odd as I trained a lady to wax from scratch as she'd never been to college. Next minute she's got her own waxing courses accredited by The Guild. How did she manage that then?

 

[NailsXpress]

I have certificates from all over the place. Including Spain. All are a refuted courses. However because The Guild want to stick to a certain framework I decided to go with ABT.
They also only accept accredited courses, but accept practically ALL accredited courses. As long as they receive your certificate and can clearly see it is an accredited course then you are covered for that particular treatment with that particular product.
They have always been extremely helpful and I can't recommend them highly enough.
Try ABT.

 

[NailsXpress]

Sorry, that should have said
All are accredited courses.

 

[KayaPapaya]

Salon Gold will also insure Kim's courses.

 

[tjmadmum]

Can you not cancel your policy and get a refund? If not, change insisted and you'll make your loss back in one Brazilian alone once you train with me.

I love BABTAC but I believe in freedom of choice, so check all the others out. Many great insurance companies out there who don't try to have the monopoly.

Ps. Afterthought! If The Guild said it would be ok then check before you cancel. I know lots of my students are happily insured with them and they have only done Brazilian training with me.

Odd as I trained a lady to wax from scratch as she'd never been to college. Next minute she's got her own waxing courses accredited by The Guild. How did she manage that then?

I will be double checking today Kim. It just seems to be one rule for some .... And I really cant wait to train with you after being a model in August. i can still hear your words in my ears "Hello Sarah, come in, get your trousers off and get on the bed on all fours!" Absolute class! 😉

Can't believe you trained someone and then she went off with your training and started in training herself! X

 

[Kim Lawless]

I will be double checking today Kim. It just seems to be one rule for some .... And I really cant wait to train with you after being a model in August. i can still hear your words in my ears "Hello Sarah, come in, get your trousers off and get on the bed on all fours!" Absolute class! 😉

Can't believe you trained someone and then she went off with your training and started in training herself! X

Ha ha! I don't muck about

I don't have a problem with people going off to be trainers but they're not stealing my technique. Let them develop their own.

See you soon x

 

[Sarah-Nail Tech]

Hi all. I am a nail tech but have also been an insurance broker for 9years. Just to say you don't have to always go to salon gold, the guild etc to get your insurance. Many brokers will offer public liability and salon insurance too which will cover you for most treatments. Liability alone is usually minimum premium around £50-£60 but obviously this will vary from person to person.

I'm am sure my colleagues will be happy to quote anyone xx

 

[Jack Dunn]

I'm looking to change so please pm the contact details so I can do a comparison.
Thanks

 

[The Guild]

Hi Geeks,

Once again we are happy to clarify our position in response to comments posted after our last statement.

The Guild will not discuss matters relating to individual members on an open forum as this would be a breach of confidentiality. We can re-iterate however, that we have contacted the individual member who raised a concern in this thread and have addressed this in full. If any other Guild member has a query regarding their insurance, they should contact us directly.

Therapists should note that the provision of insurance is regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. All members of the Guild’s insurance team are trained and regulated through the FCA to provide the advice they give. The problem with public forums like Salon Geek is that comments posted by therapists regarding insurance, however well intentioned, are very often inaccurate, untrue and misleading. The only authoritative source of information about Guild membership insurance is from the Guild. Our advice to any therapist or nail technician is to address any questions about insurance directly to the authorised provider. It is legal requirement that any individual or organisation that offers insurance advice in the UK is regulated by the FCA to do so. So anyone who is not regulated and suggests on a public forum that a therapist cancels an insurance policy is not only showing themselves to be highly irresponsible, they are also breaking the law.

As regards qualifications and certificates, it is a requirement of Guild membership and insurance cover that we check and hold copies of all training certificates. Training certificates that are not on the Qualify Curriculum Framework (QCF) require to be accredited by the Guild before we can provide insurance cover. The Guild’s accreditation process allows us to verify that the training course meets the National Occupation Standards (NOS). We also verify that the trainers are themselves qualified and experienced in the subject they are teaching, and that they hold a teaching qualification. Where courses submitted for accreditation do not meet the required standards, we will insist that they are added to and amended accordingly before they are accepted.

Guild accreditation safeguards everybody concerned.

1. It protects and safeguards the future clients who will be treated by the therapist once he or she has completed their training.
2. It protects the therapist themselves against potential negligence claims which could arise if the training was in any way deficient.
3. It reduces the number of insurance claims on our policy which allows the Guild to continue providing the highest quality of insurance cover and membership services at the lowest possible price.
4. Last but not least, it maintains high standards of training which protects the reputation of the entire professional beauty industry - something which the Guild has been doing for almost 20 years.

Training schools have a choice of who they chose to accredit their courses with, or indeed, if they accredit at all. There is no “monopoly”, as regards accreditation of training courses, but as with all products and services, schools gravitate towards the best and most reputable organisations. The Guild will not drop standards in order to accommodate training schools who decline to submit their training courses for accreditation. We fully understand that this may result in us having to turn away some therapists who apply for membership, but it demonstrates our commitment to high standards and quality and should be reassuring to all existing and future Guild members in particular, and to the entire professional beauty industry in general.

 

[Sarah-Nail Tech]

I'm looking to change so please pm the contact details so I can do a comparison.
Thanks

I have pm'd you xx

 

[BABTAC]

Hi guys!

Wow, this is an interesting and topical thread with lots of different elements! Sorry it's a bit late, but we’ll try to answer all the relevant points, along with some personal responses, but do let us know if we miss anything!

First, @PinkSwoon - What other training do you have? Will you solely be doing Kim Lawless waxing? For our insurance, there is a pre-requisite attached to the course, namely you need to have completed a basic Level 2 in waxing. Have you done that? If you have the basic pre-requisite, then you can get full membership with us, and your insurance certificate will highlight that you are insured for waxing and intimate waxing. Obviously Kim has students insured with The Guild, but according to their posts, they don’t insure for courses they don’t accredit, so you will need to check with them direct. They’ve also rightly pointed this out with their post on page three about individual insurance matters being confidential.

@KimLawless – you are right about the accreditation process, which is why we don’t expect every short course to be accredited by us. Although The Guild implies this is negligence in some way, we have set criteria which short courses need to meet and strict protocol for investigation if we receive complaints about any. For us, accreditation comes down to the course and the trainer, not to the provider; it doesn’t make commercial sense to block courses not accredited by us IF they are accredited and recognised by another reputable company, of which we have a strict list. Instead, we attach pre-requisites to any short-courses to ensure therapists have had a minimum level of prior training before they embark on a short course. We do have some courses blacklisted and we will also investigate any which are complained about, but restricting it too closely has the opposite effect on standards by driving away some excellent therapists and preventing them training on some excellent, credible courses.

@Sarah-Nail Tech – great point about the insurance and insurance brokers, however it’s also important to remember that the dedicated beauty associations also offer a great range of benefits which help you recoup your costs J

@Kim Lawless, @SquidgerNetball, @Decadence thanks for the nice comments about us

Now that we have answered the points, here is clarification of our accreditation process.

Very similar to The Guild, we have a strict protocol for accreditation and we need courses to meet them. In fact, our process is almost identical to the process they describe here. Each course we accredit, plus the ones we don’t, are assigned a credibility rating and given pre-requisites that the therapist must meet before they can be insured. We then monitor ALL the courses, both our own and others, for complaints, insurance claims and changing standards. Any which change or no longer meet our criteria are then removed and blacklisted from our books for a minimum of 12 months, even if they are accredited by another supplier.

In simple terms, this means we will accept the following short-courses:

• Any of our own accredited short-courses, as long as the pre-requisites (where applicable) have been met

• Some of our competitors accredited short-courses, for example The Guild, VTCT etc. who are reputable industry suppliers; we also apply pre-requisites to these. It is our belief that in the same way it is in our best interest to thoroughly check the courses, it is also in theirs for the same reasons – insurance claims, reputation and standards, so these courses will come up to scratch.

We review and tweak this process every few months to ensure that it a) meets the needs of the industry and b) still upholds high standards across the board. We are making some significant changes at the moment, including introducing a new training tier, which will come into effect from the 1st January 2014; this will be clearly explained to members in the next issue of Vitality (Nov/Dec), as well as on the website next year.

We are the longest-established membership organisation and have now been working in the industry for 36 years; unlike private companies, we are run and governed by a Council of industry professionals representing the whole spectrum of the industry. This means that we mix industry expertise with an understanding of the application. We would not do anything that undermines our own position or reputation and we are confident that all our insured members are properly qualified. What’s more, as we are not-for-profit, any income we make is reinvested and it is important that we work to help keep insurance claims down.

We’re really not sure this topic is at all black & white, and that any approach is right or wrong particularly in an unregulated industry; instead, we focus on what works for us, our members and the industry, as well as upholding standards. Our insurance claims are considered normal across a large number of members and tend to be related to accidents and unrealistic expectations rather than training!

We hope this clarifies our position and we are happy to answer questions about any of this over the phone or via email

Kind regards
The BABTAC Team

 

[Baggybear]

I'm looking to change so please pm the contact details so I can do a comparison.
Thanks

Sorry to hear your needing to look for new cover after doing all you could to ensure you were covered using the qualification you gained.

It appears EVERYONE who has done any of Kim's courses & is using her techniques that are insured with the Guild need to look for alternative cover. :Scared:

 

[Decadence]

Hi guys!

Wow, this is an interesting and topical thread with lots of different elements! Sorry it's a bit late, but we’ll try to answer all the relevant points, along with some personal responses, but do let us know if we miss anything!

First, @PinkSwoon - What other training do you have? Will you solely be doing Kim Lawless waxing? For our insurance, there is a pre-requisite attached to the course, namely you need to have completed a basic Level 2 in waxing. Have you done that? If you have the basic pre-requisite, then you can get full membership with us, and your insurance certificate will highlight that you are insured for waxing and intimate waxing. Obviously Kim has students insured with The Guild, but according to their posts, they don’t insure for courses they don’t accredit, so you will need to check with them direct. They’ve also rightly pointed this out with their post on page three about individual insurance matters being confidential.

@KimLawless – you are right about the accreditation process, which is why we don’t expect every short course to be accredited by us. Although The Guild implies this is negligence in some way, we have set criteria which short courses need to meet and strict protocol for investigation if we receive complaints about any. For us, accreditation comes down to the course and the trainer, not to the provider; it doesn’t make commercial sense to block courses not accredited by us IF they are accredited and recognised by another reputable company, of which we have a strict list. Instead, we attach pre-requisites to any short-courses to ensure therapists have had a minimum level of prior training before they embark on a short course. We do have some courses blacklisted and we will also investigate any which are complained about, but restricting it too closely has the opposite effect on standards by driving away some excellent therapists and preventing them training on some excellent, credible courses.

@Sarah-Nail Tech – great point about the insurance and insurance brokers, however it’s also important to remember that the dedicated beauty associations also offer a great range of benefits which help you recoup your costs J

@Kim Lawless, @SquidgerNetball, @Decadence thanks for the nice comments about us

Now that we have answered the points, here is clarification of our accreditation process.

Very similar to The Guild, we have a strict protocol for accreditation and we need courses to meet them. In fact, our process is almost identical to the process they describe here. Each course we accredit, plus the ones we don’t, are assigned a credibility rating and given pre-requisites that the therapist must meet before they can be insured. We then monitor ALL the courses, both our own and others, for complaints, insurance claims and changing standards. Any which change or no longer meet our criteria are then removed and blacklisted from our books for a minimum of 12 months, even if they are accredited by another supplier.

In simple terms, this means we will accept the following short-courses:

• Any of our own accredited short-courses, as long as the pre-requisites (where applicable) have been met

• Some of our competitors accredited short-courses, for example The Guild, VTCT etc. who are reputable industry suppliers; we also apply pre-requisites to these. It is our belief that in the same way it is in our best interest to thoroughly check the courses, it is also in theirs for the same reasons – insurance claims, reputation and standards, so these courses will come up to scratch.

We review and tweak this process every few months to ensure that it a) meets the needs of the industry and b) still upholds high standards across the board. We are making some significant changes at the moment, including introducing a new training tier, which will come into effect from the 1st January 2014; this will be clearly explained to members in the next issue of Vitality (Nov/Dec), as well as on the website next year.

We are the longest-established membership organisation and have now been working in the industry for 36 years; unlike private companies, we are run and governed by a Council of industry professionals representing the whole spectrum of the industry. This means that we mix industry expertise with an understanding of the application. We would not do anything that undermines our own position or reputation and we are confident that all our insured members are properly qualified. What’s more, as we are not-for-profit, any income we make is reinvested and it is important that we work to help keep insurance claims down.

We’re really not sure this topic is at all black & white, and that any approach is right or wrong particularly in an unregulated industry; instead, we focus on what works for us, our members and the industry, as well as upholding standards. Our insurance claims are considered normal across a large number of members and tend to be related to accidents and unrealistic expectations rather than training!

We hope this clarifies our position and we are happy to answer questions about any of this over the phone or via email

Kind regards
The BABTAC Team

Oh dear thats me not covered then

 

[MissOwen]

First, @PinkSwoon - What other training do you have? Will you solely be doing Kim Lawless waxing? For our insurance, there is a pre-requisite attached to the course, namely you need to have completed a basic Level 2 in waxing. Have you done that? If you have the basic pre-requisite, then you can get full membership with us, and your insurance certificate will highlight that you are insured for waxing and intimate waxing. Obviously Kim has students insured with The Guild, but according to their posts, they don’t insure for courses they don’t accredit, so you will need to check with them direct. They’ve also rightly pointed this out with their post on page three about individual insurance matters being confidential.

So if i'm reading this correctly, you also dont cover Kim Lawless waxing courses UNLESS the therapist has already completed a Level 2 in waxing? Have I got that right?

 

[PinkSwoon]

Thankyou BABTAC for you in depth reply.

I do not hold any pre-requisites either so effectively would I have to go to college before I could do any of Kim's courses? I assumed I wouldn't need to as some of her courses are for beginners. Is it the same if I wanted to do HD brows also seeing as that also includes waxing/tinting?