Mistake on highlift

[April6]

Hi everybody! First of all please forgive my english.. I don't use to talk in english last months.

Well, I don't like so much highlifts because bleach is more safe talking about colour ressults, and I work it with low levels like 20 even 10 and it works.

We have a costumer that she had virgin hair and a level 4-5.. She was asking about become blonde without bleach, just with highlift. She insisted... So we did it and toned after, and was a really nice results. Not platinum but a beautiful blond.

This week we had the same case with another girl, virgin hair level 4-5 (more 5) and she didn't wanted bleach. So we did the same job with her. And the result was very very brassy.. Toner had nothing to do there, she had even some orange.. And we had to dye in a warmer colour and we told her to come back in two weeks and make some high lights. Her hair was virgin.. No doubt.

Somebody had this case before? Why highlift is more powerful sometimes even with the same level??

We used 12.1 of a famous brand (I dont know if I can say brands here..) I mean, a quality brand.

 

[cassies97]

Her natural hair probably contained a lot of orange or even red pigments. If she's a 4-5 then I'd expect a warm 8-9 with a highlift.

 

[ColourGirly]

4-5 is a big difference.

Then you have tone

Some people are 5.1- these people will have a Warmer outcome

A 5 will lift easier.

 

[cassies97]

4-5 is a big difference.

Then you have tone

Some people are 5.1- these people will have a Warmer outcome

A 5 will lift easier.

Why is it that the people with ash will have a warmer outcome? I remember you saying on another thread ages ago but can't remember why!

 

[ColourGirly]

More melanin to get through when lifting so the end lifting result won't get as far- so will be warmer.

 

[cassies97]

More melanin to get through when lifting so the end lifting result won't get as far- so will be warmer.

Ah right okay. Thanks.

 

[rosalily]

More melanin to get through when lifting so the end lifting result won't get as far- so will be warmer.

Sometimes (a lot actually) I read your posts and think oh yea wow of course!! You really do open up my eyes to a whole new level with colouring.

 

[April6]

Thank you very much. And yes you are absolutely right. But we were really surprised because the other girl had a level 4, even darker.. And she get I would say a level 9. Both with 40 volume without hot, 60 minutes.
Our salon is young and I want to give a professional image.. And I'm kind of sad with this case, maybe I could talk to the brand's salesman... Well thank you very much!

 

[rosalily]

April6.... I'm just wondering was the second clients hair possibly thicker than the first client? I find I get better results with highlight tints on ladies with finer hair when applying all over. X

 

[rosalily]

We used 12.1 of a famous brand (I dont know if I can say brands here..) I mean, a quality brand.

It's fine to discuss which colour house that you use. We all talk about the names of brands and products we prefer ☺️

 

[jamiereid92]

More melanin to get through when lifting so the end lifting result won't get as far- so will be warmer.

Oh wow I never knew this!
So how comes it's harder to lift out someone with a lot of red in there hair naturally?

Sent from my HTC One using SalonGeek mobile app

 

[adamlea87]

The red and yellow pigments in the hair are more resistant to oxidation and they also tend to be more concentrated deeper into the cortex, making red hair harder and slower to lighten.

Also it can be hard to tell sometimes if someone has a lot of underlying warmth in their hair because the pigments are produced together into granules, first the red/yellow pigments are first produced which are encased by a layer of brown/black pigment. So if you can imagine the red pigments surrounded in a thick layer of brown, you might not be able to see how much red is in the hair just by looking at it.

 

[cassies97]

The red and yellow pigments in the hair are more resistant to oxidation and they also tend to be more concentrated deeper into the cortex, making red hair harder and slower to lighten.



Also it can be hard to tell sometimes if someone has a lot of underlying warmth in their hair because the pigments are produced together into granules, first the red/yellow pigments are first produced which are encased by a layer of brown/black pigment. So if you can imagine the red pigments surrounded in a thick layer of brown, you might not be able to see how much red is in the hair just by looking at it.

Is the black/brown layer the eumelanin or am I on the wrong track?

 

[adamlea87]

Is the black/brown layer the eumelanin or am I on the wrong track?

It sure is.

 

[cassies97]

It sure is.

So, everyone has both types of melanin no matter how light or dark the hair is, just different percentages of each?

 

[cassies97]

I read somewhere that the reason red is so hard to remove is because red pigments are so small and are so deep within the cortex that regular haircolour doesn't go far enough into the cortex to get at them?

 

[adamlea87]

So, everyone has both types of melanin no matter how light or dark the hair is, just different percentages of each?

That's right!

 

[adamlea87]

I read somewhere that the reason red is so hard to remove is because red pigments are so small and are so deep within the cortex that regular haircolour doesn't go far enough into the cortex to get at them?

Yep that's right they are diffused deeper into the cortex, that's why sometimes once you prelighten up to a yellow undertone it seems to take forever to lift further.

 

[cassies97]

Yep that's right they are diffused deeper into the cortex, that's why sometimes once you prelighten up to a yellow undertone it seems to take forever to lift further.

Ahh right okay. Is that why it's so hard to replicate natural red too and have it not fade? Because the colour molecules aren't going deep enough into the cortex? Do you find when lifting there's a big step between a 7 and an 8?

 

[adamlea87]

I think the real issue with creating reds is that unless the client has a lot of red pigment in their hair, the colour is not being supported by their underlying pigment, rather you are relying on the artificial pigment entirely to create the tone. And faded reds and coppers just look wishy-washy, rather than say a brown which just looks like a lighter version of itself. Traditionally red&copper dyes were just not as durable as other dyes, but I don't think that it is so true nowadays.

How do you mean lifting between a 7 & 8? I suppose natural blondes tend to have finer hair so often lift faster.