NVQ or VRQ

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Hi you do make a very valid piont about being trained in a salon. And that is why i volenter myself to work for free in the salon. I do do those things. But as im on a vrq i may never get through the door to show what i can do!

The point i seem to be failing to make is that just beause your on a vrq does not mean you wont have salon training. It simply means you didnt do an aprentaship. If someone with a vrq has work experence then are they not the same as someone with a nvq.

I totaly understand why you would not want to employ someone with no salon experience. For the reasons you said and many more.


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Great summary! All I know is that really great stylists are very hard to come by unless you train em yourself!

Two of my salon managers started out as my juniors! I train 'em well!!!:green:
 
Great summary! All I know is that really great stylists are very hard to come by unless you train em yourself!

This exact comment infuriates me, Hairdressing is about individuality, creating the perfect finish your way, using your imagination, not been moulded by a salon to their way of doing something, this in my eyes is not a great stylist but just someone who has been shown how to do something. Thas not what i want, i wanted to expand on what i have been taught on the VRQ and develope my skills my self which i can now do.

There is no right and wrong way, its how an individual choses to progress starting by doing an NVQ Doesnt mean you will be a great styist just as starting on a VRQ doesnt mean you cant be a great stylist.
 
just worked it out. Yesterday I did 12 clients. 6 of them were colours (mostly highlights), I did one gent, 3 blowdries, and 2 further cut and blowdries. At no time did I run late, do a shoddy job, or fail to sort out aftercare.
That is the reality of a salon, not one client in the morning, a sit down and a fag, and one client in the afternoon.
THATS what we teach our juniors to do. My junior did a sterling job yesterday, and wasnt fazed at all. She also kept me topped up with tea, kept on top of washing the towels and gowns, and washed up about a million tint bowls.
What she learnt was that a busy day is perfectly acheivable without panicking, and with good planning. She has learnt to multitask already, and has also learnt the tasks which must be performed for each client in regards to our client care standards.

So you could argue that she was a pot and bottle washer yesterday, or you could argue that she was getting a great lesson in running a very fast column.
 
This exact comment infuriates me, Hairdressing is about individuality, creating the perfect finish your way, using your imagination, not been moulded by a salon to their way of doing something, this in my eyes is not a great stylist but just someone who has been shown how to do something. Thas not what i want, i wanted to expand on what i have been taught on the VRQ and develope my skills my self which i can now do.

There is no right and wrong way, its how an individual choses to progress starting by doing an NVQ Doesnt mean you will be a great styist just as starting on a VRQ doesnt mean you cant be a great stylist.

What in heck do you think training is of not one showing another how to do it??!! You're rite in as much as their ate many correct techniques however their is also bad techniques!
 
just worked it out. Yesterday I did 12 clients. 6 of them were colours (mostly highlights), I did one gent, 3 blowdries, and 2 further cut and blowdries. At no time did I run late, do a shoddy job, or fail to sort out aftercare.
That is the reality of a salon, not one client in the morning, a sit down and a fag, and one client in the afternoon.
THATS what we teach our juniors to do. My junior did a sterling job yesterday, and wasnt fazed at all. She also kept me topped up with tea, kept on top of washing the towels and gowns, and washed up about a million tint bowls.
What she learnt was that a busy day is perfectly acheivable without panicking, and with good planning. She has learnt to multitask already, and has also learnt the tasks which must be performed for each client in regards to our client care standards.

So you could argue that she was a pot and bottle washer yesterday, or you could argue that she was getting a great lesson in running a very fast column.

Persianista I think we're of the same "old school" as it were. A club I'm roud to be in!
 
Persianista I think we're of the same "old school" as it were. A club I'm roud to be in!

Haha! You know we sell the same products too? Redken, Pureology and Dermalogica!:hug:
 
i seriously cant believe how heated this thread has got, too many quotes to quote,

i have a nvq but it means nothing, i trained solely in a salon (a great one at that) and the experience i received as an assistant was amazing we worked with 1 stylist helped others out sometimes but you got used to working with each other and the salon ran like clock work..

anyways if i had the option of 2 graduate stylists capable of the same standard of service 1 had full time salon experience and 1 had college experience i know what one i would employ.

my opinion sorry if it offends!

successful salon owners havnt got where they are knowing nothing..
i also agree train your own!x
 
i seriously cant believe how heated this thread has got, too many quotes to quote,

i have a nvq but it means nothing, i trained solely in a salon (a great one at that) and the experience i received as an assistant was amazing we worked with 1 stylist helped others out sometimes but you got used to working with each other and the salon ran like clock work..

anyways if i had the option of 2 graduate stylists capable of the same standard of service 1 had full time salon experience and 1 had college experience i know what one i would employ.

my opinion sorry if it offends!

successful salon owners havnt got where they are knowing nothing..
i also agree train your own!x

what if their was a girl with a vrq that trained at college in a salon but volentered 3 days a week in a salon. Would you employ them.

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what if their was a girl with a vrq that trained at college in a salon but volentered 3 days a week in a salon. Would you employ them.

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Dunno, but I would give her a trade test for showing dedication.
 
what if their was a girl with a vrq that trained at college in a salon but volentered 3 days a week in a salon. Would you employ them.

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depends on the standard of service, someone in the same salon for 2 years working with the same team of ppl and learning from them would have a better understanding of running a column without flapping and running late.

Do you think someone in college learning with a few days at a salon has the same experience for the salon floor?
 
Why would she not have been their for two years and working with the same people. Could she not volenter for that long! And why would she not be able to do things to the same standerd. I do the samething as the other girls at the salon i am at only difference is i am on an vrq and they are nvq. I have been their 3 years. Now i am actually the beauty therapist so i dont do it all day long but i am their 6 days a week. i would say after 3 years i have a good understanding how a hair salon works.

my previous salon was also hair and beauty and i was their 3 years.

Im tired of this now im getting know were.

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Why would she not have been their for two years and working with the same people. Could she not volenter for that long! And why would she not be able to do things to the same standerd. I do the samething as the other girls at the salon i am at only difference is i am on an vrq and they are nvq. I have been their 3 years. Now i am actually the beauty therapist so i dont do it all day long but i am their 6 days a week. i would say after 3 years i have a good understanding how a hair salon works.

my previous salon was also hair and beauty and i was their 3 years.

Im tired of this now im getting know were.

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Don't get tired Chazz. It's great that you're so passionate and your future is obviously going to be brighter and more fulfilling than most of your peers.

But you have to admit, you're pretty much the exception to the rule! I secretly think that when you open a salon you'll be on our side (if you're not already LOL)

:)
 
Chazz, you are in a salon, seeing how its done. That is entirely different from our argument that college only people are not up to salon standard once they qualify.

Go have a glass of wine Chick xx
 
I agree 100% about not taking on some one with no experience. But what worrys me is would you give someone with a vrq an interview in the first place or would you see the vrq and think NO!

Im suprised iv been so bothered by this as i have no intention of working in a salon. Im only doing the course as i plan to open a hair and beauty salon and thought i should learn the trade if im going to employ people. Plus i had nothing to do on a tuedsay and wednesday night lol boring life.

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Chazz, you are in a salon, seeing how its done. That is entirely different from our argument that college only people are not up to salon standard once they qualify.

Go have a glass of wine Chick xx

i cant have wine as i have quit smoking and wine makes me want to smoke still after nearly 9 months. X very upsetting so i eat to fill the void. X


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well done you 9mths is great, iv set my quit date for tue :sad:


i went to a salon a few weeks back for a full head foils and a cut, stylist was college trained and she didnt have a clue what to do with a razor and apparently didnt have time to tone my bleach h/l no treatment offered no products explained and no retail.. and i was her only client she was flappin!!

when i was training the assistants would have delt with this,(not razor)
 
I think this thread is really interesting. It's hard not let your passion show in your replies (from both sides of the fence) as both groups (students and employers) seem to be getting screwed. Students who do well are given the same certificate / piece of paper as students who barely passed the course and this confuses the employers like myself who give up after seeing the umpteenth candidate with a qualification that doesn't match their abilities.

It's unfair on the students who are really self-motivated, sure, but the answer cannot be that every employer has to trade test everyone with a VRQ to find someone worth investing more time in - we'd never get a chance to do our clients considering most colleges churn out 30 students a year. If there are 5 colleges in your area that means trade testing 150 people every year! Hardly realistic.

Anyway, there were some posts I wanted to comment on so I've included the snippets below...



You might feel that a VRQ is better for you (as an individual) but the reasons you outlined are generally why employers prefer NVQ trained staff.
Hairdressing is about more than 8 cuts or 7 colour techniques or 3 shampoos (one surface, one penetrating and one scalp treatment) during a one on one service.

For a salon to work efficiently from the owners point of view, the stylists need to be capable of 3 on one services (a colour developing, a client being shampooed and a cut and blow being finished) while your next client is waiting in reception (perhaps that actually makes it 4 on one LOL). While all this is going on, the owner needs to feel confident that as a matter of habit you will be: filling in record cards, cycling the laundry, getting drinks, recommending retail, cleaning your tools, dealing with reception, tidying up after yourself, pre-booking clients and supervising the assistants in such a way that they don't end up hating you and causing a disruption to the team or the client service.

A salon trained stylist can do all of this. Seriously, 4 days a week in a busy salon = a lot of underpinning knowledge and an ability to multi-task in a way that college trained stylists just cannot fathom.

It starts at the very beginning with shampooing and backwash duties.

A college trained student shampoo's one person at a time (usually the client they are about to practice on).

A salon trained student will have Mrs Jones with a treatment on that needs taking off in 5 minutes, a perm that needs neutralising in 2 minutes and 2 clients waiting at reception who need prioritising in which order they should be shampooed considering one stylist is halfway through their blowdry and the other still hasn't eaten yet. College doesn't teach you these skills.

Fastforward 2 years and you have 2 students qualified at level 3.

They are both entering the same salon environment.

Their morning looks like this: 9AM Blowdry 9.15AM Top Head Hilights 9.30AM Hair-Up (accidentally booked in) 10AM Gents Cut 10.30AM Cut and Blow the Highlights Client 11AM Perm 11.30AM Shampoo Set 12 Midday Blowdry Perm Client.

Any salon trained stylist would look at that column and immediately think about certain things they'll be suggesting to clients. What would a college trained stylist do or suggest? I'd be interested in hearing ideas. :)



This made me laugh out loud!

If we hadn't trade tested a few VRQ students then we wouldn't be here moaning about the general lack of skills. ;)

Still...made me chuckle!



We CAN help, and we DO agree that we can help you get more experience and training, but what's annoying for us is that most colleges seem to be telling people that they will be qualified after they have finished the course and will be able to go work in salons as a hairdresser instead of a trainee.

Many 'qualified students' seem a bit miffed when we explain that we can offer them a job as a 'junior'. They just cannot accept that their college tutor lied to them about 1) Their skills and 2) Their job prospects.

All of our lives would be made so much easier if college students were informed that after studying for their VRQ they would be able to approach salons and get a job as a junior where the salon would finish them off over a period of about 12 months to get them to "junior stylist level".



Sorry to snip your post faerififi, but I just wanted to comment on the bit above...all apprentices are paid the same rate and it wouldn't cost an employer double to employ you. We have apprentices who are 24 years old and they are on the same rate as the 16 year olds.

wow love your first comment see this is what i want to be doing busy all the time learning to multi task etc and i agree with all of the above apart from the apprentice pay if you go to apprenticeships.org.uk they will quite clearly state if you are 16 you are on apprentice minium wage and if you are 19+ you are on apprentice minium wage for the first year only after the first year by law they have to be payed national minium wage and also they are expected to pay 50% of tutuition fees x

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Chazz, you are in a salon, seeing how its done. That is entirely different from our argument that college only people are not up to salon standard once they qualify.

What about VRQ students that train in the college salon working on the public and also reception. Would they not be up to salon standard?
I'm pretty sure there are plenty of crap NVQ students out there.
Its Down to the individual - Not the Paper! And Anyone who thinks otherwise are small minded...

Last reply on this topic because I am NOT going to get into one of the many Salon Geek rows that's full of cranks pretending they're the 'be all and end all'
 

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