NVQ or VRQ

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You are missing my point. The qualification name is not important, it is the lack of education within colleges that is my bugbear. They lie to you and tell you that you can do hair, when reality is that they have not prepared you anywhere near enough to handle the general public in a normal salon environment.

The colleges are misleading people into thinking they will get a job.

What the colleges won't tell you is just how much you won't learn, that you will be faced with on a daily basis in a salon.

I have had a college leaver slate me in salon because I expected her to do Ghd curls in half an hour, she told me I was treating clients like a conveyer belt, and I should stop rushing people. The client went mad because she took an hour and a half. The girl was hopeless. Her mouthing off from a position of ignorance was the icing.

The argument between nvqs and Vrqs is pretty academic. I actually don't think either are great.

My juniors do day release and models in salon. After 6 months she can just about do a blow dry, and apply a colour (not to salon speed or standard).
Are you seriously saying she should now be a stylist? She has done some cuts on blocks. Would you let her cut your hair?

Is this junior on an nvq. I dont think anyone college leaver should become a styalist. They should be a graduate styalist. And work their way up. The girls in my salon on nvqs will become graduate styalist and will still have guidence untill fully compatent.

nvq or vrq the bottom line is both are not up to scratch it is up to the salon they work in to train them to a higher standard.

I see no difference between the two courses apart from on an nvq working is requirment where as vrq working is optinal. So if you have two students both working at least 3 days in a salon and one with vrq one with nvq whats the difference between them. X
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Is this junior on an nvq. I dont think anyone college leaver should become a styalist. They should be a graduate styalist. And work their way up. The girls in my salon on nvqs will become graduate styalist and will still have guidence untill fully compatent.

nvq or vrq the bottom line is both are not up to scratch it is up to the salon they work in to train them to a higher standard.

I see no difference between the two courses apart from on an nvq working is requirment where as vrq working is optinal. So if you have two students both working at least 3 days in a salon and one with vrq one with nvq whats the difference between them. X
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The NVQ one would have salon experience, the vrq one wouldn't, or just a college salon at best.
 
Y wouldnt they have salon experience. X

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Vrq is done when there is no salon, NVQ is done by salon based apprentices.

That's my understanding of it.
 
Yes but if you read my post more carefully my question was. If there are two people one doing an nvq and working in a salon and one doing a vrq and also working in salon. What is the difference then.

I get that on an nvq it is a requirment to work in salon. But on a vrq its optinal and students are encoraged to find a workplacement. Being on a vrq does not mean you dont have work experience! it just means you are not on an aprentaship you are probally working for free.

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Then it has to be made very clear on your cv that you volunteered x days per week in a salon in addition to your college days.
 
Alot of people on here put a VRQ Students down on here, how many of you have actually trade tested some one from a VRQ To actually see what the individual is capable of?

Would love to see how many people have. Not many i bet...Old dog, new tricks?!

As for the "trained in the good old days of city and guilds" remark, the VRQ Is city and guilds.

Quite right!
:-D
 
I think a vrq is better as i dont spend time cleaning all day long if your working for free then you have to be getting something out of it. You can spend more time watching and learning. The girls doing an aprentaship just clean all day long and make tea. They mix colour and stand and pass foils. One of them has been on the course since september and in salon iv only seen her do one training session. And she hasnt done one assesment at college or cut cut anything but a block and she has only lernt a one length cut. Im on a vrq and i have lernt all basic cuts iv cut 5 real people so far 2 as assesments 3 as practice. And we.started at the same time. X so basically i think it 100% depends on the person, weather they have found work on their own accord, weather the salon bothered to teach them anything, the college they go to, and the teacher they have. Not the type of qualifacation they have. X

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Alot of people on here put a VRQ Students down on here, how many of you have actually trade tested some one from a VRQ To actually see what the individual is capable of?


I'd love to see how many actually have. Old dog and new tricks spring to mind ;-)
 
Chazz, my point exxactly, my college has a salon, a very modern upto date with regular clients. + we are supposed to take our own clients in as well, which i have since january, sadly not all students have and have had no choice but to do work on their block heads but all assessments must be done on a paying client, we have not been assessed on training block heads. We have also had to work to NVQ timings and if we are over on that time the assessment is failed and we redo it again later when our timings are faster.

Iv helped out in salons, i have been assisting in a barbers 1 day a week, doing gents cuts, simply explainin gi am training and that it would eb at a reduced cost, and i have now completed my trade test on secured a position in a salon locally.

It annoys me that all VRQ Students are told by pro hairdressers that our qual is not good enough as we need experience yet so many salon owners are quick to say no instead of yes thats great, you have the basics, you have knowledge on the theory side, we can really help you progress now and enhance what you already know.
 
Alot of people on here put a VRQ Students down on here, how many of you have actually trade tested some one from a VRQ To actually see what the individual is capable of?


I'd love to see how many actually have. Old dog and new tricks spring to mind ;-)

Yes I have.
I am not an old dog:(, and could teach you more than a few tricks.

If you are a crap hairdresser, it don't matter if you have a vrq or NVQ, the name on the cert won't change a talent or lack of, as the case may be.
 
I think a vrq is better as i dont spend time cleaning all day long if your working for free then you have to be getting something out of it. You can spend more time watching and learning. The girls doing an aprentaship just clean all day long and make tea. They mix colour and stand and pass foils. One of them has been on the course since september and in salon iv only seen her do one training session. And she hasnt done one assesment at college or cut cut anything but a block and she has only lernt a one length cut. Im on a vrq and i have lernt all basic cuts iv cut 5 real people so far 2 as assesments 3 as practice. And we.started at the same time. X so basically i think it 100% depends on the person, weather they have found work on their own accord, weather the salon bothered to teach them anything, the college they go to, and the teacher they have. Not the type of qualifacation they have. X

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Hadnt realised youwhere on the VRQ As well Chazz, im loving it, only have 1 assessment left to do which is for the Image based on a theme which we are having an in house comp for next week then im completed! Neen half term here so im not back in college until Thursday but have still done a few friend overthe break to keep me going!
 
Yes I have.
I am not an old dog:(, and could teach you more than a few tricks.

If you are a crap hairdresser, it don't matter if you have a vrq or NVQ, the name on the cert won't change a talent or lack of, as the case may be.

I'm sure you could. And my point exactly! Whether NVQ or VRQ if you're able you're able.
And a VRQ IS worth the paper it's written on :)
 
Yes I have.
I am not an old dog:(, and could teach you more than a few tricks.

If you are a crap hairdresser, it don't matter if you have a vrq or NVQ, the name on the cert won't change a talent or lack of, as the case may be.

But hairdressing is an art form, a talent not every one does have it, so it should not matter what qual it is classed as because without a natural talent, flare carismah and passion for it your ot going to be great, but for students with those things they will suceed, achieve, and become the bestthey can be and will always want the next thing......Educaton never stops, this i am aware of, and i intend to keep learning right through my career to keep my self up to spped and knowledge with new pproducts, styles, techniques, in trends, but i wont ever achieve my NVQ as this is how i have chosen to learn and become a good stylist of the future, no one shoould dicatate to me that i cant achieve my goals because of the path i have chosen, particularly as everyones personal circumstances influence those decisions.

I codnt do the NVQ - I cant afford to, i have to work to support my children i cant earn £90per week and live which is what i would have had to do as an apprentice so instead im a full time mum of 2 boys, i attend college and i go to work, i also volunteer in a barbers as i mentioned earlier.
 
Hi yes been doing beauty for 7 years and i rent a room in a hair salon. When im not doing beauty clients i help out in the hairdressers washing hair mixing clolour ect. Been their 3 years now.

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Think some of the points here are very valid, not everyone has the lifestyle required to do an apprenticeship! Most places want 16 or 17 year olds fresh from school but for those of us wanting to progress to hairdressing later in life barely any salons will give anyone older than 18 the time of day because it costs more to pay them.
I applied for an apprenticeship at toni & guy, had the interview and was ready to give up going to uni to train with them. I didnt get the place I think because I am over 18 it would cost them £800 a month to pay me whereas the girl from my old group they did hire was younger and so only paid £400 a month. Whats shocking but probably good for her is that she was the worst at everything at college, i.e. couldnt do a blowdry properly, couldnt cut AT all, her block looked like it was just chopped with kitchen scissors, so she is being retrained from scratch. Its not just about training is it, franchises want to make sure that if they train someone up they will stay there for at least 10 years afterwards, and if someone only knows hairdressing as a career then they probably will.
Quite frankly its down to the individual. I hate how hairdressing has become the go to training for people who dont have anything better to do and it does lower the standard, but i definitely dont think VRQ students should get labelled as sub par just because we havent been fortunate enough to secure an apprenticeship. Other 16+ get pushed into A levels, but not all them get good grades. Why is that? Because not all of them put in the same amount of extra work and effort to succeed. I think its exactly the same as in hairdressing, and unfortunately the amount of students not willing to achieve lowers the general standard. If colleges were less complacent about letting people in so easily Im sure the standard would become a lot higher.
 
I think this thread is really interesting. It's hard not let your passion show in your replies (from both sides of the fence) as both groups (students and employers) seem to be getting screwed. Students who do well are given the same certificate / piece of paper as students who barely passed the course and this confuses the employers like myself who give up after seeing the umpteenth candidate with a qualification that doesn't match their abilities.

It's unfair on the students who are really self-motivated, sure, but the answer cannot be that every employer has to trade test everyone with a VRQ to find someone worth investing more time in - we'd never get a chance to do our clients considering most colleges churn out 30 students a year. If there are 5 colleges in your area that means trade testing 150 people every year! Hardly realistic.

Anyway, there were some posts I wanted to comment on so I've included the snippets below...

I think a vrq is better as i dont spend time cleaning all day long if your working for free then you have to be getting something out of it. You can spend more time watching and learning. The girls doing an aprentaship just clean all day long and make tea. They mix colour and stand and pass foils. One of them has been on the course since september and in salon iv only seen her do one training session. And she hasnt done one assesment at college or cut cut anything but a block and she has only lernt a one length cut. Im on a vrq and i have lernt all basic cuts iv cut 5 real people so far 2 as assesments 3 as practice. And we.started at the same time. X so basically i think it 100% depends on the person, weather they have found work on their own accord, weather the salon bothered to teach them anything, the college they go to, and the teacher they have. Not the type of qualifacation they have. X

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You might feel that a VRQ is better for you (as an individual) but the reasons you outlined are generally why employers prefer NVQ trained staff.
Hairdressing is about more than 8 cuts or 7 colour techniques or 3 shampoos (one surface, one penetrating and one scalp treatment) during a one on one service.

For a salon to work efficiently from the owners point of view, the stylists need to be capable of 3 on one services (a colour developing, a client being shampooed and a cut and blow being finished) while your next client is waiting in reception (perhaps that actually makes it 4 on one LOL). While all this is going on, the owner needs to feel confident that as a matter of habit you will be: filling in record cards, cycling the laundry, getting drinks, recommending retail, cleaning your tools, dealing with reception, tidying up after yourself, pre-booking clients and supervising the assistants in such a way that they don't end up hating you and causing a disruption to the team or the client service.

A salon trained stylist can do all of this. Seriously, 4 days a week in a busy salon = a lot of underpinning knowledge and an ability to multi-task in a way that college trained stylists just cannot fathom.

It starts at the very beginning with shampooing and backwash duties.

A college trained student shampoo's one person at a time (usually the client they are about to practice on).

A salon trained student will have Mrs Jones with a treatment on that needs taking off in 5 minutes, a perm that needs neutralising in 2 minutes and 2 clients waiting at reception who need prioritising in which order they should be shampooed considering one stylist is halfway through their blowdry and the other still hasn't eaten yet. College doesn't teach you these skills.

Fastforward 2 years and you have 2 students qualified at level 3.

They are both entering the same salon environment.

Their morning looks like this: 9AM Blowdry 9.15AM Top Head Hilights 9.30AM Hair-Up (accidentally booked in) 10AM Gents Cut 10.30AM Cut and Blow the Highlights Client 11AM Perm 11.30AM Shampoo Set 12 Midday Blowdry Perm Client.

Any salon trained stylist would look at that column and immediately think about certain things they'll be suggesting to clients. What would a college trained stylist do or suggest? I'd be interested in hearing ideas. :)

Alot of people on here put a VRQ Students down on here, how many of you have actually trade tested some one from a VRQ To actually see what the individual is capable of?


I'd love to see how many actually have. Old dog and new tricks spring to mind ;-)

This made me laugh out loud!

If we hadn't trade tested a few VRQ students then we wouldn't be here moaning about the general lack of skills. ;)

Still...made me chuckle!

Chazz, my point exxactly, my college has a salon, a very modern upto date with regular clients. + we are supposed to take our own clients in as well, which i have since january, sadly not all students have and have had no choice but to do work on their block heads but all assessments must be done on a paying client, we have not been assessed on training block heads. We have also had to work to NVQ timings and if we are over on that time the assessment is failed and we redo it again later when our timings are faster.

Iv helped out in salons, i have been assisting in a barbers 1 day a week, doing gents cuts, simply explainin gi am training and that it would eb at a reduced cost, and i have now completed my trade test on secured a position in a salon locally.

It annoys me that all VRQ Students are told by pro hairdressers that our qual is not good enough as we need experience yet so many salon owners are quick to say no instead of yes thats great, you have the basics, you have knowledge on the theory side, we can really help you progress now and enhance what you already know.

We CAN help, and we DO agree that we can help you get more experience and training, but what's annoying for us is that most colleges seem to be telling people that they will be qualified after they have finished the course and will be able to go work in salons as a hairdresser instead of a trainee.

Many 'qualified students' seem a bit miffed when we explain that we can offer them a job as a 'junior'. They just cannot accept that their college tutor lied to them about 1) Their skills and 2) Their job prospects.

All of our lives would be made so much easier if college students were informed that after studying for their VRQ they would be able to approach salons and get a job as a junior where the salon would finish them off over a period of about 12 months to get them to "junior stylist level".

(snip)...
I applied for an apprenticeship at toni & guy, had the interview and was ready to give up going to uni to train with them. I didnt get the place I think because I am over 18 it would cost them £800 a month to pay me whereas the girl from my old group they did hire was younger and so only paid £400 a month. ...(snip)

Sorry to snip your post faerififi, but I just wanted to comment on the bit above...all apprentices are paid the same rate and it wouldn't cost an employer double to employ you. We have apprentices who are 24 years old and they are on the same rate as the 16 year olds.
 
I think this thread is really interesting. It's hard not let your passion show in your replies (from both sides of the fence) as both groups (students and employers) seem to be getting screwed. Students who do well are given the same certificate / piece of paper as students who barely passed the course and this confuses the employers like myself who give up after seeing the umpteenth candidate with a qualification that doesn't match their abilities.

It's unfair on the students who are really self-motivated, sure, but the answer cannot be that every employer has to trade test everyone with a VRQ to find someone worth investing more time in - we'd never get a chance to do our clients considering most colleges churn out 30 students a year. If there are 5 colleges in your area that means trade testing 150 people every year! Hardly realistic.

Anyway, there were some posts I wanted to comment on so I've included the snippets below...



You might feel that a VRQ is better for you (as an individual) but the reasons you outlined are generally why employers prefer NVQ trained staff.
Hairdressing is about more than 8 cuts or 7 colour techniques or 3 shampoos (one surface, one penetrating and one scalp treatment) during a one on one service.

For a salon to work efficiently from the owners point of view, the stylists need to be capable of 3 on one services (a colour developing, a client being shampooed and a cut and blow being finished) while your next client is waiting in reception (perhaps that actually makes it 4 on one LOL). While all this is going on, the owner needs to feel confident that as a matter of habit you will be: filling in record cards, cycling the laundry, getting drinks, recommending retail, cleaning your tools, dealing with reception, tidying up after yourself, pre-booking clients and supervising the assistants in such a way that they don't end up hating you and causing a disruption to the team or the client service.

A salon trained stylist can do all of this. Seriously, 4 days a week in a busy salon = a lot of underpinning knowledge and an ability to multi-task in a way that college trained stylists just cannot fathom.

It starts at the very beginning with shampooing and backwash duties.

A college trained student shampoo's one person at a time (usually the client they are about to practice on).

A salon trained student will have Mrs Jones with a treatment on that needs taking off in 5 minutes, a perm that needs neutralising in 2 minutes and 2 clients waiting at reception who need prioritising in which order they should be shampooed considering one stylist is halfway through their blowdry and the other still hasn't eaten yet. College doesn't teach you these skills.

Fastforward 2 years and you have 2 students qualified at level 3.

They are both entering the same salon environment.

Their morning looks like this: 9AM Blowdry 9.15AM Top Head Hilights 9.30AM Hair-Up (accidentally booked in) 10AM Gents Cut 10.30AM Cut and Blow the Highlights Client 11AM Perm 11.30AM Shampoo Set 12 Midday Blowdry Perm Client.

Any salon trained stylist would look at that column and immediately think about certain things they'll be suggesting to clients. What would a college trained stylist do or suggest? I'd be interested in hearing ideas. :)



This made me laugh out loud!

If we hadn't trade tested a few VRQ students then we wouldn't be here moaning about the general lack of skills. ;)

Still...made me chuckle!



We CAN help, and we DO agree that we can help you get more experience and training, but what's annoying for us is that most colleges seem to be telling people that they will be qualified after they have finished the course and will be able to go work in salons as a hairdresser instead of a trainee.

Many 'qualified students' seem a bit miffed when we explain that we can offer them a job as a 'junior'. They just cannot accept that their college tutor lied to them about 1) Their skills and 2) Their job prospects.

All of our lives would be made so much easier if college students were informed that after studying for their VRQ they would be able to approach salons and get a job as a junior where the salon would finish them off over a period of about 12 months to get them to "junior stylist level".



Sorry to snip your post faerififi, but I just wanted to comment on the bit above...all apprentices are paid the same rate and it wouldn't cost an employer double to employ you. We have apprentices who are 24 years old and they are on the same rate as the 16 year olds.

Great summary! All I know is that really great stylists are very hard to come by unless you train em yourself!
 
Classix, a brilliant post, repped it.
My brain is mush today.
 

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